Senior Team Discussion

Discussion in 'Italy: National Teams' started by Vieri's Left Foot, Dec 3, 2023.

  1. TorontoCalabria

    TorontoCalabria Member+

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    Good problem to have. With the amount of games these players play everything will get minutes.
    I would go Tonali Ricci Barella and bring on Fratessi as an impact sub. He can also play behind the striker as that false 10 role though I have a feeling Brescianini and Raspadori will lock that role up sooner than later.
     
  2. TorontoCalabria

    TorontoCalabria Member+

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    Chiesa can either play behind the CF as the SS or as the RWB if we are chasing a game and need a goal. Let's see how he does with Liverpool but I think he will still have his say.
     
    AGomes repped this.
  3. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    Tonali and Ricci (less so Ricci today) have put Jorgi out to pasture for good. IMO, door still not closed for Loca but he's clearly on the outs for now.

    PS: Zaccagni was absolute trash today. Good grief.
     
  4. TorontoCalabria

    TorontoCalabria Member+

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    Yes I don't see Zacagni fitting into this system long term nor do I see him being able to hold a place when Chiesa Zaniolo Berardi are fit. I could even see a Baldanzi taking his spot. Pellegrini likewise will have to perform well for Roma to hold one of those false 10 spots.

    I think Raspadori Brescianini are both clearly ahead of Pellegrini Zacagni and two of the 4 I mentioned could easily displace both of the Roman men from the Azzurri barring health and form.
     
  5. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    @TorontoCalabria

    Thinking about it clearer, it would be what Zaccagni played today.
     
  6. TorontoCalabria

    TorontoCalabria Member+

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    Yes for sure. He will probably get Zacaggni dropped next round.
     
  7. Alex101

    Alex101 Member

    Mar 15, 2017
    Fratessi should be considered a starter for Inter in a forward position. Dimarco has the best crosses in the game right now.
     
  8. Vieri#9

    Vieri#9 Member

    Real Madrid
    Italy
    Oct 22, 2023
    Chiesa is the only play who doesn't excel in a 3 man defense, as sad that it is as he is one of my favorite players. The way I see it, he is going to be our super sub or he can start next to Retegui which benches Frattesi. Or we can try a 3-4-2-1 and you could move up Tonali or Barella a bit. Even though I didn't like it, in the 1st half at times it looked like Raspadori Kean Frattesi as a 3 man front line. However, you noticed that is the only time Israel was super dominant on the ball.

    Spalletti has to figure out what to do with the positions of Chiesa, Frattesi, and Barella. It is going to be fluid game by game.

    Also Bastoni is such a difference maker as a LCB especially with him and Dimarco's linking up. It sucks he has to go back to the center role but him and Buongiorno were switching a lot, it would be nice if Calafiori and Bastoni can develop that style as well. Buongiorno and Gatti had impressive showings too.
     
  9. Vieri#9

    Vieri#9 Member

    Real Madrid
    Italy
    Oct 22, 2023
    I used to like the way Jack played for Azzurri, but the more I see him, the more he needs to stay on the bench. He showed very little off the ball today, every time he was touched he would lose possession, and too many times his shot is weak. If you are going to play like that, give me Chiesa all day. Brescianini will definitely be a sub but I do like his style of play. It'll be really interesting to see who plays besides Retegui going forward.
     
  10. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    How does Frattesi figure in here? Let's look at the France match. Chiesa sends Pellegrini to the bench.

    Also, with 2 matches on the trot they won't change formations. It will remain 3-5-2 (3-5-1-1).

    EDIT: Retegui sends Kean to the bench. Chiesa sends Pellegrini (vs France) and Jack Jr (Israel) to the bench. Or what TorontoCalabria wrote, on the Right in place of Cambiaso. If it were up to me, Cambiaso then sends Di Lorenzo off for good.
     
  11. calabrese8

    calabrese8 Member+

    Feb 9, 2008
    Vancouver
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    i was thinking the same thing with Bastoni today. He can whip a good cross in too from that spot. Maybe gotta try and tinker with him at LCB and Calafiori central. What a great "problem" to have.
     
  12. Vieri#9

    Vieri#9 Member

    Real Madrid
    Italy
    Oct 22, 2023
    Once again, it all goes back to Barella. You can switch the Pellegrini/Raspadori role with Chiesa, sure, but if you leave Frattesi on the right, then Barella moves out of position to the left and benches Tonali. That should never happen. Barella and Tonali both need to be playing practically at all times. Neither should be the regista as they offer so much going forward, which means Ricci will play.

    Cambiaso won't play as a RCB, I could bet on it. Neither will Chiesa play RWB. Cambiaso will start RWB, Gatti could become the RCB starter as it now better be a fair battle with his son who is the only reason why France scored.
     
  13. Vieri#9

    Vieri#9 Member

    Real Madrid
    Italy
    Oct 22, 2023
    Right? Having Buongiorno as a sub is overkill. He should've played in the Euros, but that is the past. Imagine if Calafiori or Bastoni were right footed. This team would be attacking at all fronts!
     
    calabrese8 repped this.
  14. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    #4564 AGomes, Sep 9, 2024
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2024
    Yeah, starting to agree there. Am unsure how Chiesa fits. Only my first scenario works (ie; for the roles Pellegrini/ Jack Jr/ Zaccagni played these 2 matches).

    Of course you can have Chiesa come on as a sub for Pellegrini or Jack, as you wrote. A high tempo player coming on against tiring Defenders. Ricci, Tonali, Frattesi did well these 2 matches. Now have to bring in Barella. Spalletti kept the group relatively small this window with Tonali playing every Minute. Can really bring in Locatelli as his backup and it doesn't affect anything.
     
  15. Vieri's Left Foot

    Roma
    Italy
    Jun 8, 2022
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Exactly. But, at least Calafiori and Bastoni can co-exist. One is a little out of position, but I think Bastoni has looked great in the center. He doesn't have the freedom to charge up field, but he can make his mark passing.

    The Barella-Frattesi thing is a real dilemma, because Frattesi can finish astonishingly well, but as @AGomes keeps saying (and I know he's right), Frattesi is a midfielder. His genius is how he finds the space after the striker(s) have found their positions; and, oddly enough, though he's usually the last person to fill a space, it ends up being the right one (or, it works for him). I can't say he'd be doing this if he was leading the line, or even second in line. Maybe, maybe not.

    But, man, can he finish. His ability to put balls on target, with some oomph behind them, on the first touch is just incredible. He's a striker, but he isn't. But he is.

    Lastly: Barella is going to start. Frattesi needs to be there, too. I don't think Barella, Tonali, or Frattesi can just fill Ricci's shoes, effectively; conversely, I think we need Tonali to be a bulldog out there. So, those four should be playing. It's just: how do you fit all of them into a line-up where the wingbacks are key, the centerbacks are key, and none of the strikers are going to be successful on an island?
     
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  16. Vieri#9

    Vieri#9 Member

    Real Madrid
    Italy
    Oct 22, 2023
    Spalletti said he is trying to bring the age of the squad down. Pellegrini and Di Lorenzo were the only players to play that were older than 26. Can someone pass that along to Spalletti please?
     
  17. Vieri's Left Foot

    Roma
    Italy
    Jun 8, 2022
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Spalletti will achieve this by replacing Vicario with Carnesecchi on the bench. Age ticks down, slightly. Mission accomplished without sacificing Di Lo.
     
  18. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    Todays match was the first in which 4 players (or was it 5) started were born in 2000 or later. Which is not anything extraordinary that other NT's are doing but for Italian standards this is monumental, LOL.

    Which brings me to the earlier comment where Mimmo Berardi was mentioned. Not his fault that he tore his ACL of course but assuming he remains loyal to Sassuolo and goes to 'B' when he returns, is on the wrong side of 30, already having difficulty finding a spot for Chiesa (and his other son, Zaniolo, when healthy which is 3% of the time a Call Up comes around), this movement to shave years off the NT, Berardi is really out likely never to return.
     
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  19. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    So Zaccagni comes on for Jack. Granted Italy were not looking to score, it was raining, etc, but he would have helped his cause had he grabbed the football and looked to run at a Defender, inject some energy to the team. This is what Chiesa would do so it makes it logical that it's Chiesa from here on out, Zaccagni dropped.
     
  20. Vieri#9

    Vieri#9 Member

    Real Madrid
    Italy
    Oct 22, 2023
    Yep. Then who do we replace for Barella and Di Lorenzo's younger brother? If it was me, Okoli and Meret (you dont use 3 goalies in 2 games).
     
  21. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Berardi would be difficult to integrate into this side under this system. Big injuries now and no telling how he is going to perform when he comes back. He was also never a world beater either. Best we move on.

    Chiesa on the other hand is a more interesting problem because he is potentially our best offensive talent, however he also doesn’t fit into this system. He isn’t a good second striker because he needs the width of the field. He’s a pure winger. Spalletti has to either invent something like a 3-4-3 to fit him in, or do something like how Edy Reja used to play Lavezzi where pocho had complete creative licence to do whatever the ******** he wanted.
     
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  22. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    Also @Vieri#9, your earlier point about Scamacca --> Agreed.

    Of all CF's he is definitely the one that has the best play-making attributes. Granted he had Lookman with him last season so it was normal to seek him out. How often if the Europa League did we see Scamacca turn provider and slip a pass through.
     
  23. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023

    ******** No. A hard pass. 3-5-2 (or 3-5-1-1) from here on out. We've been clamoring for this formation and now that it's here, must not deviate just so Chiesa starts. He isn't a #10, no, but would we really lose something if we try him in place of Pellegrini? OK, maybe yes. To me, it's obvious that he plays where Zaccagni and to a lesser extent where Jack played. Because in a 4-3-3 the ballottaggio for Chiesa would have been with Zaccagni anyways.
     
  24. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    No idea.
     
  25. AGomes

    AGomes Member+

    Juventus
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2023
    Hah. Interesting enough on FI they have an article where Spalletti was asked where does Chiesa fit in this 3-5-2.

    He answers support Striker.
     

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