Semi-Final Post-Game(R)

Discussion in 'NWSL' started by Weymouth Dave, Aug 17, 2002.

  1. Weymouth Dave

    Weymouth Dave Member

    Mar 4, 2001
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well,It's over.It was one of the worst bias refereeing jobs I've watched.This ref let Wambeck get away with one cheapshot after another.Ruined the game.but the league will be happy cause Mia's in the final.The disadvantage that foriegn players have faced all season has been deplorable.
  2. Poirot

    Poirot New Member

    Jul 22, 2002
    It seemed like the ref just didnt want Philadelphia to win. That one last possible foul in the box when Wambach ran into Clemens was a very close call. It could have changed everything.

    Mia sure has those refs in the palm of her hand. She controls them. Did you see that one play, where Lihong made a nice clean tackle, going for the ball, which she did get. Mia signalled for a card, and undoubtedly, Zhao did get one.

    But I am not going to blame this game on bad calls. We all knew that the Charge was going to have a problem scoring, and, of course, with Pichon not able to get the ball anywhere near the goal, they didnt score. They had some chances. I wish that Mark would have put in Mary-Frances Monroe earlier, for Ailing. I didnt see Ailing at all in the 2nd half. Tullock for Connors was a pleasant change - Connors kept losing the ball or shooting off-target. Clemens had a nice 2nd half - her first half, she had a lot of turnovers. The defence - what can I say - there is a reason that 2 of them are nominated for defensive players of the year. They were so good. 99% of their tackles were successful, and the one that didnt work (Iverson on Little) resulted in a goal. That was so disappointing. Lorrie Fair had an excellent game. She came out big, both defensively and creating plays offensively. Zhao played "okay", - her cross passes were useless, as Pichon is so short. This was such a disappointing game. 10 corners - that is so disappointing.

    I still love the charge, and they are #1 in my heart, but it just wasnt their day today.
  3. bones

    bones New Member

    Jun 7, 2000
    Hey Krikorian,
    In the Charge's two year history, who are the top scorer's?
    Answer, Pichon, Smith, Clemons, and Schwoy.!!!

    Life is good!!!!!
  4. Poirot

    Poirot New Member

    Jul 22, 2002
    what is that all about bones?

    I wish that the ref would have called that Clemens - Wambach foul in the box. On another note, Wambach should have been out of that game. I was confused, because she was noted as getting two yellows on PAX, but I think they made a mistake. She should have gotten two yellows though - 1)collision with moore 2)deliberate takedown to connors. 3) deliberate foul to clemens!! what is up with that ref?!
  5. runbabyrun

    runbabyrun New Member

    Aug 17, 2002

    Anyone know why tullock did not play more? It was for all the marbles after all and she did not look hurt when she was out there.
  6. Adam Zebrowski

    Adam Zebrowski New Member

    May 28, 1999
    A tactical decision, she was used to match up with Hamm.

    Oddly, neither Monroe nor McDowell were the starters.

    All year Krikorian went defense first and then subbed on the offense, this time the defense sat and the better offensive players, excepting Tullock started.

    After 30 minutes, no one had there legs left, and by 60, the heat made bad passes too frequent.

    Perhaps Dwight and/or Scott have info from the press conference after the match.
  7. runbabyrun

    runbabyrun New Member

    Aug 17, 2002
    I figured it was to put her in fresh, but don't you think the 65th minute was a bit late to sub in such a talented player? I see what Washington does with Hamm at halftime. That is also when I expected to see tullock. Just my $.02.
  8. Adam Zebrowski

    Adam Zebrowski New Member

    May 28, 1999
    Tullockis exceptionally gifted and a midfield with Kelly Smith and Stacey Tullock will be a thing of beauty.

    My view is Tullcok has great skills and ball control and vision, and matching her with similar players just enhances her ability.

    Too frequently today Clemens got caught in possession, and the weak part of ehr game is the vision seeing free players and making the pas, she opted to shoot a half dozen times where better passing options wereavailable.

    Clemens played hard, but somethimes you need to be aware of where others are.
  9. *Crazy_Chastain*

    *Crazy_Chastain* New Member

    Mar 19, 2000

    In defense of Clemens, as a forward, I've always been taught to look for the shot before the pass when close enough to the goal. I mean talking a shot from 30 yards out when theres people wide open would be just plain rediculous, but if youre 20 yards or closer to the goal, your first look should always be the shot, and if that is not on, then you look to pass.
  10. Adam Zebrowski

    Adam Zebrowski New Member

    May 28, 1999
    Poroit, the Wambach - Clemens entanglement was NOT a PK.

    Hunt gave Wambach a stern warning, which is the right thing to do, and then she got the yellow, which Hunt had to do.

    YUou can't complain about the ref at all, the weather melted play though.

    Fatigue from the heat caused play to get poorer, particulary fromthe Charge, who are more finesse, technicall oriented.

    I don't believe I'd seen Benson mishit three crosses all year.. And Mitts unpressed, pass directly to Hamm twice late.
  11. Adam Zebrowski

    Adam Zebrowski New Member

    May 28, 1999
    True, but there were in front of me where Pichon was making a run into space behind the defense, when Clemens opted for those shots.

    Since I could see it clearly, perhaps TV angle did not permit it.

    And afterwards Pichon would signal to Clemens about her being free.
  12. Adam Zebrowski

    Adam Zebrowski New Member

    May 28, 1999
    I don't beleieve Sandra Hunt decided the match at all, the card on the foul to Mia was about the only fault I saw in Hunt.

    But Mia has different rules.

    If little girls want her as their hero fine, and if WUSA wants founding players to succeed in the league, then they should be careful not to alienate foreign allocations.

    Let Mia have her last hurrah, she's a nice player, really good athlete, which is the model for American soccer.

    But she's not an artistic player.

    Let her win a title, that'll complete her story, and then WUSA can move on to forming new heros.

    The sooner the better, anyone want to see a 35 year old Mia hobbling around out there.

    2003 and 2004, then good bye Mia, a grand tour of farewell..

    and let Aly Wagner take over.
  13. Adam Zebrowski

    Adam Zebrowski New Member

    May 28, 1999
    Charge the barreling into Moore happened early on, and I believe Hunt mad the proper call there, a severe talking to.

    On the whole the match was fairly even, DC got the goal, because they made the play that counted most .

    Enjoy the season.....

    And don't look for excuses where NONE exist.
  14. norfcath

    norfcath New Member

    Aug 17, 2000
    Home teams are supposed to get the benefit of the doubt on close pk calls. Carolina got one late and tied their game. As good as Sandra Hunt is, I think she was intimidated by the presence of "name" players on Washington. Hamm will put another 2000 fans in the seats in Atlanta.
  15. bones

    bones New Member

    Jun 7, 2000
    What I really find ironic is that Krikorian (the guru) let DC have his next college pick in the draft for their FIRST pick next year.LOL!
  16. Charge!

    Charge! Member

    May 7, 2001
    BSG 75
    The tenth time...

    Remember the old saying when two teams face each other and one team is that good they would win 9 out of 10 of them?

    Today was the 10th.

    We're going to have to agree to disagree as two people can, Adam; Wambach should have been given a MINIMUM yellow for her Michael Strahan on Moore. Whatever happened to protecting the goalie who has clear possession? And with the dissent yellow in the second half, the Freedom would have been down to 10. That was a critical non-call by Hunt and no wonder she wasn't a finalist for ref of the year. But that was the only gripe I had with the officiating. You just can't leave the book in pocket on a grievous foul like that.

    Just a few thoughts, since the emotions are a bit raw right now; this was the first playoff game in any sport I ever went to in my life...

    The team fought the good fight. And sometimes, you don't get the result you hope for. It happens.

    We dropped the ball as fans today; 6,547 for a game of this magnitude is simply UNACCEPTABLE. We should have sold out Villanova, plain and simple. The Charge played their hearts out today, all season, and we can only fill a little more than half the house? Do the stinking X-Games have that much of a hold on folks that it and the Phillies-Cardinals at the same time pulled fans away from here?

    Yes, I know that the crowd number was almost at the average they've been drawing, but the stakes were never higher. Just 10 times in the past 21 years this city has hosted a championship qualification game in a major pro sport. Maybe sports fans around here aren't concerned that much about winning a title like they say they are.

    I do think we saw Pia in Charge red for the last time. She's nice to talk to and I said whatever the future holds, may the wind be always at her back.

    Lorrie and Coach K addressed the crowd at the end; after as numbing a defeat as a team can suffer (although Beat fans will surely dispute that; when Fotop tied it when she did, the Beat were finished. The momentum swing was just too severe), they still signed every autograph and thanked everyone for coming out this season.

    That's the worst part of being a fan; no, and I do mean NO words you offer of consolation can transform a scene like that into one from Field of Dreams - easing one's pain. You feel so helpless, and whatever you say, no matter how much you mean it, like I did when I thanked just about every Charge player including Mark, that it was empty platitude time. Others got autographs; I opted just for handshakes and hugs for a season well done. The Channel 10 weekend sports guy said that the Charge had a fantastic season, and it was. At least they got to the semifinals of their sport's championship, which is more than I can say for the other four underachievers of sports teams around here.

    To Heather afterward, I said this (remarking about the beautiful sky and sunny day): "Fair weather; we're not." No fair-weather fans here. Myself included. When I get the '03 season ticket order form, I will re-up without a whim of hesitation.

    And Tim Murphy got on my case a little as I was waiting for the gates to open, razzing me about the hornet's nest raised on here about the Mia thing on the Charge website (see what you started, G4m?? :D :D).

    Hell, maybe my woofing on the rivalry forum put us in line for a smite job supreme.

  17. Charge!

    Charge! Member

    May 7, 2001
    BSG 75
    I feel really bad for...

    Liu Ailing. This was her last game today, and she's served us most well. She deserved one more weekend, as did all the Charge.

  18. judymd

    judymd New Member

    the charge played a good game. individual effort was there. i don't think i've seen mandy play this well in a long time! melissa had a fine game. but unfortunately, even though we had a ton of chances, we just couldn't put any away. and that's the way soccer is sometimes.

    washington also played well. its not fair to their effort to blame the officiating. and there's really no point to complaining. they scored a clean goal. their carrie moore did a good job defensively. its just the way it goes sometimes. if we had converted our chances, any missed calls wouldn't have mattered.

    enjoy the game. no sense in being upset. we had a great season.
  19. Soccersuzie

    Soccersuzie New Member

    Jun 17, 2001
    Orange County
    Spirit fan here

    great game. the picture of the charge players lying on the field crying...

    one question i have to ask though... why do they turn, and pass out of bounds?

    other then that, philly dominated, and great game played by both teams.
  20. cachundo

    cachundo Marketa Davidova. Unicorn. World Champion

    Feb 8, 2002
    Genesis 16:12...He shall be a wild ass among men
    Manchester United FC
    We did not play a good game.

    We didn't get the breaks either. Wombat mowed down Moore, and Mandy in the PA. And Bai Jie wrestled Tietjen to the ground. Yellows in my book.

    Beth, I'm probably the biggest Mandy fan there is, but she didn't play a good game. Mandy turned the ball over in the attacking half 8 times in the 1st half, 11 for the whole game. And I'm not talking about passing the ball for the opponent to clear or block. I'm talking about passing the ball to a phantom teammate or the teammate on the sideline.

    Adam's right. The weak part in Mandy's game is her vision and the ability to hold the ball on top. She played her heart out today, but there's a lot of room for improvement. Otherwise, she's a slasher and play the restraining line well.

    Connors turned the ball over in her attacking half a total of 10 times before she was substituted. But we already know that about her game.

    So both Mandy and Connors were play-killers of the game. That's why Pichon was so frustrated.

    I was surprised Tullock didn't start. She holds the ball well up top and in midfield. Tullock's ability to hold the ball on top, and her vision, were sorely missed in the attacking half.

    I'm surprised Liu was left to play till the end. After minute 67, she was invisible on both sides of the ball. Liu gets the Casper award for the game.

    Zhao was involved in four attacks in a 15-minute span in the first half. the rest of the half she was AWOL. The Charge attack suffered.

    Both internationals were obviously tired and demoralized in the 85th minute. That was the sequence with a Benson CK, Mullinix's punch-out, and Tullock's lob. On Tullock's lob, both zhao and Liu were just nonchalantly walking back, yet they were inside the PA. I blew my top, yet both were still left in to play.

    Of Fair's five forays in the attacking half, she turned the ball over four times. She lost the ball twice to Wombat, because she was waiting for the ball to come to her, while wombat sneaked in from behind her. Yeah, Fair will win you balls, but she'll lose as many too.

    The Charge lobbed about 20 crosses into the box. The Hammsters got their heads on 14 of them.

    Of the 10 CKs taken, the Hammsters got their heads on 6 of them.

    The Charge were not able to contest the air on their attacks. The lack of height, the lack of a heading presence, was very frustrating.

    Someone please tell me why Moore punched out that ball from a CK, the one that eventually led to the goal. Had she caught the ball instead, this might have been a different game.

    Anyway, on that goal-scoring play, when Pu lobbed the ball to the box, Wombat was offside by three paces. Where's the officiating when you need them?

    Tietjen got beat by Wombat twice in the first half. Tietjen can be beat because she doesn't time opponents' runs very well. The whole game, the rest of the defense was bailing her out.

    Mitts and Benson were outstanding on defense. Had a dozen slide tackles between them. Undoubtedly the best outside back tandem in the league.

    There was a sequence in the first half when Bai had the ball on the attack. Tietjen should have tackled Bai, but didn't. Benson slid and tackled the ball off Bai. Pu recovered. Fair should have tackled, but did not. Again, Benson to the rescue with another slide tackle. Mitts and Benson's asses saved the Charge. Literally.

    Had the Charge won, Benson would win the POTM. she contributed on both sides of the ball. That she was able to attack down the flank and lob 6 crosses, and still be a defensive standout, was truly amazing.

    The difference between Benson/Mitts and Fair, is that Fair's tentative about tackling the ball. The two would just time the slide perfectly, and knock the ball out from the attacker. That's the kind of dirty work that's needed out of the destroyer position. Edgar Davids and Patrick Vieira are great destroyers not just because they hold the ball well. What sets them apart from everyone else is their ability to destroy an attack by actively pursuing the attacker, and delivering the crunching slide-tackle in the process. The destroyer needs to do that consistently, knowing that the defense behind her can bail her out at any time.

    This loss doesn't change the fact that the ladies had a great season. I'm disappointed at the outcome, but not as disappointed as these women. Everyone played to the best of their abilities, and for going all out, they should hold their heads high.

    Wish the outcome could have been different. Nevertheless, I'm proud of everyone. Thank you ladies.
  21. Poirot

    Poirot New Member

    Jul 22, 2002
    Thank you cachundo for the enlightening statistics.

    Paul, you seem like a really nice guy. I am happy there are still fans like you.

    Washington fought hard. And this game, the Charge didn't have a free kick by Zhao to save them from the loss.

    I keep my faith for next year. I still love the team, and they are still #1 to me. If there was one thing missing in this game for the Charge, it was Kelly Smith. I know that I am just speculating, but I sincerely believe that Smith would have changed the outcome of this game entirely.

    GO CHARGE!! Great season.
  22. Charge!

    Charge! Member

    May 7, 2001
    BSG 75

    "Wambach, who was plowing over players all game, collided with goalie Melissa Moore, who just beat the rookie forward to the ball....When Mandy Clemens was tripped inside the 18 by Wambach in the 90th minute and received no call, the Charge knew it would not be their day."

  23. John T

    John T New Member

    Aug 8, 2002
    South Jersey
    As gutted as I am by the loss, I won't say that either of the Wambach incidents were as bad as most think.

    The collision with Moore, while it made me cringe and initially yelling for her to be sent off, was pretty much unavoidable. After watching the replays, she starts pulling up in the final couple of steps and veers a bit to her left. Unfortunately, Moore's momentum carried her in that direction. In a match where the winner goes to the championship match, I don't blame Wambach for going all out until she's positive she can't get to the ball first.

    As for the collision with Clemens, it was two players going after a lose ball and colliding with each other. Unfortunately for Clemens, that player was twice her size, so she pretty much bounced off of Wambach. Personally, I can't justify calling a foul and PK on the play simply because Wambach is bigger.

    I'm proud of the effort given yesterday. It's a shame things couldn't have worked out better. Next year, I don't envy any of the other teams. We get Smith back, Tullock for the entire season, and I can't wait to see what foreign and college "unknowns" Krikorian discovers this time.

    Thank you, ladies, for a tremendous season.
  24. Charge!

    Charge! Member

    May 7, 2001
    BSG 75
    Tsapos wasn't afraid to pull out the cards yesterday when the Beat went a-thuggin'. And no, I didn't see the game, as I came home too late, even with the delay.


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