Selecao : Rumo ao Hexa

Discussion in 'Brazil' started by tpmazembe, Mar 27, 2003.

  1. tpmazembe

    tpmazembe Member

    Jun 13, 2002
    The Midfield (S.Fla)
    The Bra boards have been dead for awhile. What’s up?

    Let’s start following the Selecao, and its many trials and tribulations to come, on the way to Germany. As Parriera recently said, the honey moon of the Penta is over. People are going to start demanding results once again (no more laughing at 0-0 draws with China).

    What do people think of the squad he picked for Portugal? Who should have been included, who surprised? What are your expectations for the Portugal game?

    Is it time for renovation, or keep the same pieces sprinkled with a couple of new faces?
     
  2. tpmazembe

    tpmazembe Member

    Jun 13, 2002
    The Midfield (S.Fla)
    Tostao's take (excerpt from his recent article)
    _______________________________________

    Is it time for the Selecao to renovate, thinking in terms of WC 2006? The last selection absence of note was Juninho Pernambucano. He would be the best option in the right midfield spot, if Parreira opted for a formation with two defensive mids and an offensive mid on either side. Juninho could just as easily be the sub of Kleberson. Flavio Conceicao is dispensable, as Emerson will be the first substitute for Gilberto siva and Kleberson.

    As for the center of defense, with Lucio and Roque Junior injured and without counting on the players from Corinthians, Santos and Gremio playing the Libertadores, only Cris and Juan were left.

    At right back, Cafu is still much better than the others available. It would not be a surprise if he were the starter in 2006. He doesn’t stop running. There are good right backs, such as Beletti, Maurinho e Rogerio, but none stand out to substitute Cafu. If he repeats his performances from the state championships for Cruzeiro, Maurinho would be the best option.

    Adriano, Robinho, Diego, Carlos Alberto, as well as Kaka, should participate in the Under-23 Selecao. Those five in addition to Gil, Kleber, Maurinho and Alex (playing out of his mind) are hopefuls for 2006. However, they all play in positions with current excellent world champions still playing at very high levels.

    The Selecao will play against Portugal with three forwards, Ronaldinho Gaucho and Rivaldo free, close to Ronaldo, just as they operated in Korea/Japan.

    If Felipao is consistent with his stated concepts, Portugal will attack Cafu's side. Before the last WC Felipao declared, with some truth, that the Selecao could not play with Cafu and only two central backs to cover his defensive deficiencies. We’ll see on Saturday.
     
  3. Martin Cutler

    Martin Cutler New Member

    Sep 30, 2002
    San Diego
    Thanks for posting Tostao's opinions. I am a spanish speaker and can usually make out most of what he says in portuguese but it's nice to see it translated. I've always thought he is one of the best analysts of the game. Thank you.

    Here's the roster Parreira called in:

    Goalkeeper - Dida (AC Milan), Marcos (Palmeiras)

    Defenders - Belletti (Villareal), Cafu (AS Roma), Cris (Bayer Leverkusen),
    Edmilson (Olympique Lyon), Juan (Bayer Leverkusen), Junior (Parma), Roberto
    Carlos (Real Madrid), Luisao (Cruzeiro)

    Midfielders - Emerson (AS Roma), Flavio Conceicao (Real Madrid), Gilberto
    Silva (Arsenal), Ze Roberto (Bayern Munich), Kaka (Sao Paulo), Kleberson
    (Atletico Paranaense)

    Forwards - Amoroso (Borussia Dortmund), Adriano (Parma), Denilson (Real
    Betis), Rivaldo (AC Milan), Ronaldinho (Paris St Germain), Ronaldo (Real
    Madrid)


    I'm glad to see both Adriano and Amoroso included in this list. They both deserve selection. In midfield i'm not too thrilled to see Emerson there. I think he plays the ball too much side to side and not forward enough. In fact I believe Gilberto Silva's late repalcement for Emerson in Brazil's starting lineup in 2002 WC was a key reason to Brazil's success (obviously not the only one). Gilberto Silva, however, is amuch more dynamic player than Emerson.

    I watched Cris play last week for Leverkusen against Inter Milan in the Champion's League and frankly he didn't impress me too much. While Junior and Belletti are decent backups for Roberto Carlos and Cafu, Dortmund's Dede and Evanilson have really impressed me when I've seen them play. I think Parreira should look at both of them in the near future.

    I imagine the Copa Libertadores matches going on limited Parreira's domestic selections. Hopefully he'll get a chance soon to give a call to players like Santos' Fabio Costa, Alex, Paulo Almeida & Renato; Corinthians' Kleber, Anderson, Fabio Luciano & Gil; and Gremio's Anderson Polga.

    While I can't wait to see Diego & Robinho with the national team I've read where the coaching staff wants to bring them along slowly and I can see their reasoning there since the players are only 17 and 18 years old now.

    Any other Brazilian based players those of you who follow Brazilian clubs closer than I would like to see selected by Parreira? Maybe Sao Paulo's goalscorer (Luis Fabiano?). I see where Tostao advocated Cruzeiro's right back Maurinho.
     
  4. tpmazembe

    tpmazembe Member

    Jun 13, 2002
    The Midfield (S.Fla)
    Your welcome Martin - I too believe that Tostao is the best Brasilian, if not world, football analyst. He is clinical, intuitive and dispassionate in his arguments. Add that to his past playing accomplishments and you get simple, no non-sense insight.

    I’m for a gradual insertion of new talent; but keeping the base of the WC winning squad. To my mind the criticial areas to address are:

    1) Right back for ‘06
    2) Cover for R. Carlos
    3) Cover for Ronaldo
    4) One more zaguerio to count on

    I agree with you that Beletti and Junior are nice, but not dynamic enough. Cafu replacement is of immediate concern. I agree that Evanilson and Maurinho need to be given decent runs at making the position theirs.

    I am convinced it is time to start grooming Kleber to be R.Carlos' replacement. Not to supplant him in ’06, because I believe Roberto will be still in fine form, but more for ’10 and as cover in case of injury.

    Its interesting, as Tostao notes, that all the hyped relevations of the past two years all operate in the offensive third of the field where the need is currently the least. In my mind the real need is to find adequate cover for Ronaldo. He is the only natural born goal scorer of the Selecao. Amoroso is his natural replacement, having led Brasileiro, Serie A and Bundesliga each in scoring, but he has also been injury prone in the past couple of years. Adriano seems to be the choice longer term (Franca who I like very much has really disappeared from radar).

    The central defense is fine with Roque, Lucio, and Edmilson given that in Parreira’s formation only two will be played at a time. They will never be confused for the Italian defense, but they don’t need to be. They also have WC experience on their side, and have shown to come up big in the big games....that’s good enough. I’d like to see one more person emerge to make a foursome. Preferrably a physical presence. Fabio Costa or Alex from Santos?

    I would not be surprised if Renato from Santos makes it on to the Selecao squad as a regular before either Diego or Robinho because of the current abundance of offensive talent.

    Kaka seems to have been annointed as Rivaldo's replacement / natural subsititute. I'm still not convinced...

    I think 2010 is more realistic for Robinho, Carlos Alberto, Gil, et al.
     
  5. tpmazembe

    tpmazembe Member

    Jun 13, 2002
    The Midfield (S.Fla)
    Bra vs. Portugal friendly 3/29/03

    End of Portugal (2) - Brasil (1).

    First Portuguese victory over Selecao in 36 years.

    Poor presentation of the Bra defense on the first goal by Pauleta, and well placed freekick by Deco for the second (after R. Gaucho had equalized with a penalty).

    For a friendly, there seems to have been a lot of rough play. Seems Ze Roberto may be seriously injured as result of a severe tackle (I'm sure Bayern Munich will be happy with potentially losing him due to a meaningless game). Not surprising since Felipao is known for demanding hard tackling from his teams.

    R. Carlos was sent off for stupidly bumping the ref to protest the free kick call that eventually resulted in the Deco goal.

    Ronaldo played poorly and was sub-ed at half-time by Adriano.

    The honey moon definetely is over. Parreira will begin to hear it.

    But, the long journey that is just beginning.
     
  6. Martin Cutler

    Martin Cutler New Member

    Sep 30, 2002
    San Diego
    I read where Parreira is looking to schedule a friendly with Argentina and wants to only use domestically based players for the match. Looks like he's realized he has to find a few new faces for his team.
     
  7. Sao Taffarel

    Sao Taffarel New Member

    Mar 19, 2002
    Mexico is next up on 30th April
     
  8. tpmazembe

    tpmazembe Member

    Jun 13, 2002
    The Midfield (S.Fla)
    Indeed I heard the same. Its interesting to see that he seems to be following Bielsa's strategy of a local-based national team, and a overseas based team. I'm not quite sure what that does for you, but I'm willing to wait and see what it will bring.

    S. Taffarel, do you know if the Mexico friendly will use this local strategy?
     
  9. Alex_1

    Alex_1 Member

    Mar 29, 2002
    Zürich
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    On paper and perhaps hypothetically, it does seem logical to have a foriegn and domestic based team. Two separate ones. But realistically, will that work? I have a feeling that there would be more chemistry problems than there were between 1998-2002. And Argentina has somewhat struggled to obtain results abroad with this concept - could be because again, different players playing in many different systems in their different leagues.

    It is almost like a stranglehold is on the international game when it comes to player selectoin and what to do. In qualifying, I don't know if that concept would pan out to positive results.
     
  10. Martin Cutler

    Martin Cutler New Member

    Sep 30, 2002
    San Diego
    Brazil has done this before too. Didn't Luxemburgo use a primarily domestically based team at the beginning of his tenure?

    Bielsa only used a domestically based national team for the first few games after he was appointed in 1999 and then again a few months ago in some of Argentina's first few games after the World Cup. Four years ago he then incorporated some of the domestic players with the overseas group. I suspect he'll do the same soon with the players who were most recently with Argentina's team on their tour of North and Central America.

    As we mentioned earlier in this thread, Parreira needs to find a right back, a backup at left back, some backup forwards, additional central backs and a long term repalcement for Rivaldo. What better way to do so than look at some of the younger guys still playing in Brazil?
     
  11. tpmazembe

    tpmazembe Member

    Jun 13, 2002
    The Midfield (S.Fla)
    I don't recall Luxa doing so. Leao definetely did, and we saw where that got him..the ignominious boot!

    I believe the best way to test the new guys is to play them with the guys that are definetely first teamers (Ronaldo's, G. Silva's, etc.). What do you really learn about a guy if he stands out among the "C" team? Performance in the local championship and Libertadores should act as the initial weeding-out process. Then you've got to drop him in the A squad to see how he plays with the regulars. We know what Cafu can do, why keep starting him for friendlies? Alex_1 is right; team chemistry needs to be meshed early in the process.

    I do see a locally based team helping to alleviate the international congestion of fixtures...use them for Confederations cup. But then local clubs involved in the Brasileiro will suffer as there is no forseeable break in that competition for 8 months!
     
  12. Sao Taffarel

    Sao Taffarel New Member

    Mar 19, 2002
    S. Taffarel, do you know if the Mexico friendly will use this local strategy?

    I think foreigners will also be called as the 16th of April is the date for squad announcement
     
  13. mikesterw

    mikesterw New Member

    May 2, 2001
    Long Island, NY
    Is there any reason why Lucio wasn't there? I wasn't able to follow the build up to the match as much as I wanted, is he injured? I thought that he would almost be a staple in the D.
     
  14. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Considering the way the Brazilian teams are dominating the Libertadores and the fact that the next World Cup is three years away I think it's a good time to form a team out of the local young players and help them gel for the future.

    [smacks his forehead] Sorry! I'm asking for forethought out of the CBF!

    Anyway congratulations on your teams doing so well in the Libertadores.
     
  15. Martin Cutler

    Martin Cutler New Member

    Sep 30, 2002
    San Diego
    I absolutely agree with you tpmazembe. If Brazil is going to try out some new players it is much better to use them alongside some established starters. Frankly I feel that may occur at this summer's Confederations Cup but it wouldn't surprise me if Parreira starts the process before then as he'll need to get the team accustomed to one another before the eliminatorias begin this fall.
     
  16. Alex_1

    Alex_1 Member

    Mar 29, 2002
    Zürich
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    This is the tricky thing too - getting the players together. I remember when we used to fuss and complain about the qualifying results for 2002 and we would always say that the problem was with the system. In addition to the system, Parreira has to deal with some weak holes in the team that he will have to fill. Noticeably in defense, again.

    The Confed cup will most likely foster that sort of mix - good vets and new players. That is the perfect opportunity to display the players. In the Confed cup of 2001, Leao brought a mostly experimental side and was embarassed. The CBF does not want to repeat that, but does want to make sure that at the very least, they can start qualifying for 2006 as strong as they did for 2002 (remember- for 2002, the first half of matches had them qualifying without much of a doubt).

    Anyone remember Confed cup 1999? That was the "Ronaldinho breakout year". Brazil won the Copa America and then went on to finish second to home team Mexico in the competition. I think that team mainly featured players that did not participate so heavily in Copa America, and was the beginning of the end for Luxemburgo. :D I think he was the one that insisted on not callig in Ronaldino for some qualifiers because "he was fat".

    Looking back, I think that the holes in the team that existed at the time could have been solved - as they were. But the big problem, which always seems to be the case with Brazil, is Brazil. The organization itself is like playing on a pitch where in order to reach the goal, you have to dribble the ball up-hill while the oppostion is going downhill against you. (if that makes sense)
     
  17. tpmazembe

    tpmazembe Member

    Jun 13, 2002
    The Midfield (S.Fla)
    It does.

    Another issue is the insane pressure to win all competitions. I agree that Confeds cup should be use as a 'tooling' opportunity, but you know Parreira will feel the pressure to play the Cafu's in order to win. In that environment you continuously fall back on the tried and true, leaving little room for experimentation.
     
  18. tpmazembe

    tpmazembe Member

    Jun 13, 2002
    The Midfield (S.Fla)
    Tostoa tidbit on Craques Goalscorers and Ronaldo

    Craques and goal scorers

    In the history of football their exist a great number of goal scorers and few craque-goal scorers. They simultaneously score beautiful goals, enchant, are skilled, creative, have charisma and other undefined qualities. They shine even when they don’t score.

    Goal scorers who aren’t considered craques are only applauded when they score goals. They could be considered craques, but only in art of finishing. They don’t get lucky. They position themselves well, with always an eye on the ball and the pass, and the other eye on the defender. They get to the ball before the defender, anticipate and finish will efficiency, with both feet and head.

    The ball doesn’t find the goal scorer, as some narrators claim. The ball doesn’t play favorites. The goal scorers know before the defender were the ball will be.

    In recent times, Romario and Ronaldinho (Real Madrid) have been prime examples of craque-goal scorers. There have been others, such as Reinaldo (A-MG). One who only knows Romario from the recent past may think that he has always been just a good scorer. He was a craque. With time, progressively, limiting his actions and repetoir, until becoming almost stationary, waiting for the ball to score. Two touches max on the ball before finishing. Romario will continue to score goals well into old age. I imagine Romario in week-end pick-up games waiting for the ball.

    Ronaldo used to move from side to side, retreated to receive the ball, passed, dribbled and one-two’ed before scoring. At Real Madrid and with the Selecao he now is fixed, like a typical center-forward. Is he being coached to do so? Every once in awhile, as was his style, he receives the ball in a forward position, dribbles the goalie and scores a beautiful goal.

    In the past, Ronaldo did not need to score goals in a game to shine. Today, when he doesn’t score people complain that he’s fat, uninterested, like during the recent friendlies. When he scores goals, whether beautiful or not, everyone applauds the Fenomeno. I fear that Ronaldo is becoming a simple goal scorer. He’s way too young for just that.
     

Share This Page