News: Seleção General Discussion 2023 [R]

Discussion in 'Brazil' started by Ombak, Jan 20, 2023.

  1. Kaka10725

    Kaka10725 Member+

    Jun 1, 2007
    I don’t even think Spain is a great team either. There are in the same both as Argentina. Good overall talent maximized by good coaching.

    Brazil has the talent part but everything else is disorganized. From the CBF down, it’s just a mess.
     
  2. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    Both Spain and Argentina have managers who found systems that work and who enjoy the talent pool which makes those systems work.

    I said this much about the latter before the 2022 World Cup; I had written that Scaloni had, after much trial and error, encountered a system which began to yield results. Argentina, along with Brazil, finished 2022 WCQ undefeated.

    For Argentina, at least in my assessment, the stars aligned at the right time. The team peaked with the required team chemistry at the end of 2022. This was, arguably, a major reason their team from the 2002 World Cup failed - injuries, bad roster choices, and timing. Had the 2002 World Cup taken place exactly 12 months prior, the Argentina team of that time would have had a very high chance of winning it.

    As for Spain, credit is to be given. I am not going to deny I did not know who Luis de la Fuente was before this European Championship. It turned out he had crossed paths with Brazil before, when Brazil defeated Spain at the final of the 2020 Olympic tournament. He has never coached a club and his achievements were strictly with youth teams before he finally won the UEFA Nations League in 2023.

    De la Fuente nonetheless created and improved upon a system which, manned by excellent players (and very young ones at that), has proven to work. He had far less experience than, let's say, Scolari or Tite, and yet under his management, Spain defeated Italy, Croatia, Germany, France, and England in a single tournament. That is a very impressive record.

    And yes, I'm aware Dorival Jr.'s team would have beaten de la Fuente's team if not for bad refereeing and the absence of VAR. That is true - and irrelevant right now. Spain are the newly crowned champions of Europe; Brazil didn't even reach the semifinals of its own continental tournament.

    I only hope Brazil's recent disappointments are the latest chapter in a story of eventual return to the top.
     
  3. MerlinRM

    MerlinRM Member+

    May 5, 2014
    Georgia
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Spain is a good team but imo the talent pool in Europe is meh right now so they lucked out.

    I still don't think Argentina is that great of a team but in a continent where there are 2.5 top dogs and one (Brazil) is a mess while the .5 (Uruguay) are still trying to figure sht out, I had no doubt they'd end up winning this edition.

    Btw, an Argie buddy of mine and his wife got their seats taken at the game and ended up leaving early because the wife is pregnant and there was too much commotion going on for them to risk it. US better tighten up because 2026 is going to be Copa on steroids.
     
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  4. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    They might be corrupt, but FIFA organizing it should be much better than CONMEBOL doing it.
     
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  5. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    It all goes back to what is being said more and more often. That teams are closer and closer to each other, that there are no really bad teams out there. That may sound very cliché and it's true there are still inflated scorelines, like Scotland and Georgia giving up 5 in this Euro, but the same Scotland that performed so poorly, in other circumstances beat Spain in qualifying.

    Overall, are there better teams, likelier to win? We need to do more to put ourselves in that position consistently and reach finals, not quarter-finals.
     
  6. Estuardo A. Lopez

    Jul 9, 2014
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Overall I think that the next SA qualifying call-up will tell us much about Dorival's thinking about this Copa America. In other words, is Dorival as dissatisfied with the Copa team as the rest of us? If so then we may get many new names and perhaps a few old ones (Richarlison?).
    I have heard Brazilian commentators mention two European teams: AS Monaco and Nottingham Forrest. Monaco because of Vanderson and Caio Henrique and Forrest because of Danilo, Murillo(especially).
     
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  7. MerlinRM

    MerlinRM Member+

    May 5, 2014
    Georgia
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Can't believe I'm saying this but I can't wait to see Richarlison back.

    I think we need to replace all the fullbacks besides Yan for the next callups.

    Say goodbye to Alisson, Danilo and Marquinhos.

    Bench anyone of Rodrygo, Vini and/or Raphinha is they don't produce. Names mean nothing.

    Integrate Douglas Luiz, Andreas, Ederson more into the midfield and get rid of losers like Paqueta (hope the ban comes soon) and Joao Gomes.

    Let Endrick start instead of giving him 10 minutes and hoping he scores. Dorival's excuse of not rushing him is complete BS and embarrassing when we see the likes of Paez and Lamine start without issue for their country.

    CBs are fine.

    Oh and have Neymar's spot in the XI ready when he does return.

    We can turn this around by 2026.
     
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  8. Estuardo A. Lopez

    Jul 9, 2014
    Club:
    AC Milan
    I agree with all of this, which is why I think 2026 is not at all lost for Brazil.
    Also, not only have Argentina and Spain found that right "system" but they (the coach) have put ALL of their talent on their team. This is not the case for Brazil. Easily we all can find better players to replace Arana and Wendell and Danilo (the aforementioned Vanderson and Caio Henrique) and Gomes (Andre of Fluminense). Is Bento a better option than Alisson Becker? I personally like Savinho and think he would be better than Raphinha.
    Brazil has other, perhaps better options, everywhere. This is all I'm saying.
     
  9. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    We've had a few NT crisis in my lifetime. But every time, we've invariably sorted things out, became competitive by the time the WC came and were among the favorites. So I am hoping this happens again.

    Actually, the two times we won (94 and 02) I'd say there were more question marks compared to 98, 18, and 22. Even 14 had a good final year of preparation although players were out of form for the actual WC. In 06 we had big names and in 10 the team, while not a "typical Brazilian team" was well drilled in it's game plan.
     
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  10. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    Yesterday was the 30th anniversary of the Tetra.

    That year's World Cup campaign was historic and pivotal for many reasons, the most obvious being the end of the 24-year drought, the first time Brazil won the World Cup with a style of play starkly different from the Jogo Bonito of Garrincha's and Pelé's heyday. 1994 WCQ saw Brazil lose a qualifying match for the first time. The style of play, with a focus on rugged and disciplined defense, displeased many Brazilians, as many remembered both 1970 and 1982. Parreira was contested. Dunga was viewed at skeptically due in 1990. Romário was left out of most WCQ.

    The immediate NT context was by no means promising. 1990 had seen Brazil leave at the round of 16. Brazil failed to win the title at both the 1991 and 1993 Copas América. Brazil failed to qualify for the 1992 Summer Olympics soccer competition.

    Yet the Tetra became reality, and overnight, the crisis was over; the joy was immeasurable, and it seemed the glory days would return.

    Yesterday, as Brazilians looked back to the day when Brazil avenged the Tragédia do Sarriá and once again became the team with the most World Cup title wins, they were also sobered not only by the disappointing WCQ performances we've seen recently and by the quality of play displayed on U.S. soil this summer... and by the reminder that heading into the 2026 World Cup, Brazil will be facing a drought of equal length than that which ended when Baggio kicked the football above the post. Right now, it is very difficult to envision Brazil being a top candidate to win the Hexa in 2 years' time. Yes, we've seen things turn around quickly (2001 to 2002), and I'd love to see Brazil crowned World Cup champion again. If that is to occur in 2026, however, a lot of things need to get straightened out and fast.
     
  11. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
  12. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Convocacao is expected on Friday:

    https://ge.globo.com/futebol/seleca...a-nova-convocacao-para-a-proxima-semana.ghtml

    The list is due to FIFA that weekend, and European leagues don't start until that weekend, so the coaching staff is likely to call more players from Brazil than they did for Copa America.

    The article specifically mentions Gerson, Pedro, Paulinho, Andre, Fabricio Bruno and Matheus Pereira as possible call-ups.
     
  13. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I know the article calls out that more Brasileirao players will make it this time, but I do still hope to see one or two "new" names from Europe as well. Especially a Vanderson on the right and a Carlos Augusto/Caio Henrique or Samuel Lino on the left. But we'll see. Would be weird if we ended up with Ayrton Lucas/Carlos Augusto for example, I do think we'll still see Wendel or Danilo or both, so there's only room for change in the second spot.

    Besides the Brasileirao names I mentioned in the previous post, there's also an expectation that Estevao may get a call.

    Who do you want to see based on this year's Brasileirao or expectations for the new season?
     
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  14. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I know it's too early, but I think Vitor Reis from Palmeiras will be in the NT at some point in the near future as long as he keeps getting playing time.

    I honestly don't have any names outside of the ones mentioned. I know Gerson is the name du jour in the media for getting a call up. I know he is doing great at Flamengo, but I just can't erase how bad he was when he did get his call up. And he does also seem to be playing a more advanced position than before if I am not mistaken. Not sure how that fits in the NT.
     
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  15. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    No news from ge on the expected call up. But it looks like they have delayed it because Dorival and his staff want to follow this weekend's opening matches in Europe before making the final list.

    That's per a Marilia Ruiz column in UOL.

    I think that's sensible. Reminder that the preliminary list is due to FIFA by the end of the weekend. I'm sure we'll go back to our regular schedule, but with the quick turnaround for these call ups, who knows.
     
  16. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    https://www.uol.com.br/esporte/fute...uncio-da-convocacao-da-selecao-brasileira.htm

    Still no decision on when the call-up will be announced. This article suggests it will be Friday or Monday. It also says the list has two names with an asterisk on it that could be replaced due to injury. Considering Pedro's name was leaked from the preliminary list (which had to be sent this weekend), it seems he made the final list but could still be removed due to injury. Any guesses on who else might have an asterisk?
     
  17. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Savinho went off injured in the City game but not sure his injury is that serious. Savinho started the game for City on the left when I checked the game out but I think he switched to the right.

    Selfishly I don't want Estevão called up just yet. I do wonder if Luis Enrique from Botafogo will get a look.

    Raphinha played in the hole for Barca over the weekend. He did all right but that won't be his position. He will either be on the left or bench. I see him losing out in the long term for the NT. At most a bench spot.
     
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  18. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Well, a lot more leaks today:

    https://ge.globo.com/futebol/times/...pre-lista-de-dorival-para-eliminatorias.ghtml

    Clubs were told the call-up will happen on or before this Friday. So we should probably assume this Friday.

    Estevao and Luis Henrique are on the list, mentioned because of today's Palmeiras x Botafogo. Other names that are known: Fabrício Bruno, Ayrton Lucas, Gerson, Pedro (Flamengo), André, Martinelli (Fluminense), João Pedro (Brighton), Andreas Pereira (Fulham), Rodrygo, Vini, Éder Militão (Real Madrid).

    Those Real Madrid names are based on something Ancelotti said. It also suggests Endrick is not on the list, which I suspect is intended to give him time with his new team (as well as make way for Pedro, a recovered Richarlison or whoever they want to look at in the number 9 spot).
     
  19. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
  20. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    #745 Ombak, Aug 23, 2024
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2024
    Call-up is mostly the same from the midfield back, with Estevao, Luiz Henrique as the new names up front, and the return of Pedro and Gerson:

    Alisson, Bento, Ederson
    Danilo, Yan Couto, Arana, Wendel
    Beraldo, Eder Militao, Gabriel, Marquinhos
    Andre, Bruno Guimaraes, Gerson, Joao Gomes, Paqueta, Rodrygo
    Endrick, Estevao, Luiz Henrique, Pedro, Savinho, Vini Jr.
     

    Attached Files:

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  21. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I don't understand Gerson's position in Flamengo nowadays ? Is he being played as an attacking midfielder ?
     
  22. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    That's where he has had his best matches, I think. He does still play as a volante sometimes, but I think it's clear that's not his best role.
     
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  23. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I guess one surprise is Raphinha being left out. But he is also on a 1 game suspension so wouldn't be able to play in the 1st game.
     
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  24. Kaushik

    Kaushik Member

    Jun 6, 2004
    Toronto
    Methinks Joelinton should have been included.
     
  25. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Yan Couto is out due to injury. William (Cruzeiro) replaces him.

    A bit disappointed not to see Vanderson, but this close to the window (team meets on Monday already) they generally prefer to pick players in Brazil as replacements, so I hope that's the only reason they didn't bring him in.
     

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