Seleção 2014-15: Dunga II Begins -- Post Cup, Pre Qualifiers [R]

Discussion in 'Brazil' started by Guigs, Jul 9, 2014.

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Who would be the ideal choice as new Seleção manager?

Poll closed Aug 13, 2014.

  1. Felipão

    3 vote(s)
    9.1%

  2. Muricy

    2 vote(s)
    6.1%

  3. Tite

    6 vote(s)
    18.2%

  4. Luxemburgo

    3 vote(s)
    9.1%

  5. Guardiola

    8 vote(s)
    24.2%

  6. Other Foreign Manager

    7 vote(s)
    21.2%

  7. Other Domestic Manager

    4 vote(s)
    12.1%
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  1. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    #26 Guigs, Jul 9, 2014
    Ok let's consider this

    - Oscar and Ramires are starters at Chelsea - William one of their supersubs
    - Luiz Gustavo was the center of a midfield for Bayern, taken out because he doesn't fit the style of the only coach that doesn't utilize a DM
    - Paulinho became the fall guy for the Spurs.. that's the reality... he still scored 8 goals in the season and was a starter with 30 games.. his team just isn't that good.
    - David Luiz fell out of favor with Mourinho but is currently the most expensive defender
    - T.Silva.. second most expensive defender
    - Dani Alves considered one of the best RB of the world alongside Lahm
    - Marcelo considered the best LB in the world and just won a CL
    - Hernanes just transfered to Inter Milan after being one of the best CMs in Italy with Lazio
    - Fernandinho became a huge signing for Man City and one of their starting DM while winning the EPL
    - Dante starting CB for Bayern...

    I mean the talent is there.. these players are successful in their clubs for a reason. That's not a good contention point of why we're doing bad, or not getting results.
     
  2. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    #27 Guigs, Jul 9, 2014
    With time he took your Palmeiras and did what? with full control of that team...

    People inside that CBF building are probably already looking for the next coach with a great resume that will be picked to win the CA or the Olympics, if he can't he will get fired.. plain and simple.
     
  3. omajac

    omajac Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    East Orange, New Jersey, USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    #28 omajac, Jul 9, 2014
    Well he's not gonna jump, so I guess he'll be pushed!!
     
  4. PMLF

    PMLF Member

    Jul 20, 2004
    Rio de Janeiro, Bra
    #29 PMLF, Jul 9, 2014
    Oscar didn't have a good second half of season, Ramires is more like a rotation player at Chelsea. Willian was the best of the 3 last season.

    Daniel Alves has declined a lot and regardless of performances at club level, he has rarely performed well for Brazil (be it under Dunga, Mano or Felipão).

    Marcelo is good attacking, not so much defending and has bad temper sometimes, at club level he is less exposed than at the national team though.

    Hernanes didn't have a great season at Inter although that's kind of expected as he moved mid-season.
     
  5. PMLF

    PMLF Member

    Jul 20, 2004
    Rio de Janeiro, Bra
    #30 PMLF, Jul 9, 2014
    Scolari's contracts ends after the World Cup, so he doesn't need to resign and CBF don't have to sack him. They just won't renew his contract.
     
  6. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    #31 celito, Jul 9, 2014
    I was talking about about mids and forwards.

    - Oscar is a good player, not a really great one. He was benched in the 2nd half of the season.
    - Willian was actually starting.
    - Luiz Gustavo is a good defensive DM, but not very technically gifted.
    - Paulinho, another good defensive DM, also not very technically gifted.
    - David Luiz a great defender with the right pairing as we saw yesterday.
    - Dani Alves is garbage nowadays and everyone knows it.
    - Marcelo is also a great LB, I agree there.
    - Hernandes is good, but again, not a craque.
    - Fernandinho had his ups and downs in Man City, but was a good signing. And are you really defending him ?
    - Dante ... again are you really defending him ?

    Guigs, don't be superficial and start saying PSG / Man City payed X money for this or that player. Did you see how much Hulk went for ? Those teams can be stupid with money.
     
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  7. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    #32 celito, Jul 9, 2014
    He also won the Copa do Brasil with that team. Why does everyone ignore the multiple injuries the team had ?
     
  8. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    #33 celito, Jul 9, 2014
    @Guigs ... we have good utility players. Except for Neymar, we have no craques from the midfield up. Oscar is the closest thing to a good technical midfielder we have, and we pushed him to the wing. I like him, but he is no craque.
     
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  9. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    #34 Guigs, Jul 9, 2014
    Oscar is 22... Coutinho is 22... Ganso is 24... show me 1 team that have craques at that age in the world cup.. you won't find it.. you'll find nice utility players at that age
     
  10. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    #35 Guigs, Jul 9, 2014
    Copa Do Brasil didn't have the Libertadores teams, and injuries can decimate a team, look at Fluminense last year you're right.
     
  11. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    #36 Emperor Adriano, Jul 9, 2014
    Guigs has no credibility with judging talent or rosters. Just take a quick look at the serie b thread and last years brasileirao thread. The complaints about the CBF are fair but I have yet to ever hear a country not complain about their governing body.
     
  12. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    #37 celito, Jul 9, 2014
    James Rodriguez
    Muller
    Kroos
    Reus (who was injured pre-WC and didn't play)
     
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  13. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    #38 Guigs, Jul 9, 2014
    This because I don't agree with the Diogo Silva is a horrible keeper and Felipe Bastos is not a horrible player?

    Our opinions are different so I have no credibility? :rolleyes:

    Opinions are just like assholes, each one has their own.
     
  14. NotreDameFlamengo

    NotreDameFlamengo Member+

    Jul 25, 2011
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    #39 NotreDameFlamengo, Jul 9, 2014
    'Nosso futebol vem se deteriorando há anos, sendo sugado por cartolas que não têm talento para fazer sequer uma embaixadinha. Ficam dos seus camarotes de luxo nos estádios brindando os milhões que entram em suas contas. Um bando de ladrões, corruptos e quadrilheiros!'

    I don't think anyone needs the name of the person these words came from, :D
     
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  15. Renato Goulart

    Renato Goulart Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Jun 25, 2014
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    #40 Renato Goulart, Jul 9, 2014
    Would you say consistency is key? Felipão will get blamed for not winning a Cup at home, but I don't think this is really fair. You shouldn't be considered a failure by taking a team to the semifinals.
     
  16. Renato Goulart

    Renato Goulart Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Jun 25, 2014
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    #41 Renato Goulart, Jul 9, 2014
    Felipão may be past his prime, but he has still given us our best performance since... 2002 when he was our coach!
    In the meantime he took a Portugal team to being runner-ups in the EuroCup and semifinalists in the 2006 Cup. So his résumé in terms of International teams in major tourneys is pretty much unrivaled by anyone in the world.
     
  17. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    #42 Guigs, Jul 9, 2014
    Kroos and Muller are all 24, and it's their second WC, Reus is 25 already. James will fizzle after this World Cup, he plays at Monaco.. that's the same as playing in Russia...

    I know of another player that did great in Portugal then left for Russia, and for around the same amount of money too...

    Kross and Muller are not even known as craques hence the comment Germans are making about, Argentina has Messi, Portugal has Ronaldo and Germany has a team...
     
  18. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    #43 celito, Jul 9, 2014
    Muller was a standout already in 2010. Kroos only had sub appearances then. Ozil also had a standout tournament in 2010.

    Argentina also have Aguero although he is hurt. Mascherano has been stupendous in the DM position, and he can actually distribute the ball. Their hard worker (Lavezzi) is at least better than Hulk.

    How do you know Rodriguez will fizzle ? Too much talent and composure IMO. Unless he just throws it away. Plays with his head up as opposed to Lucas Moura who just puts his head down and goes.
     
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  19. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    #44 Guigs, Jul 9, 2014
    By the way at least I judge what I see instead of going with what everyone based on results that just happened...

    One of the biggest problems in Brazil is that, is the inability of looking beyond a result and salvage the good and accept certain things.

    - I always say you're as good as the roster you have, so unless you have something to work with you're going to be bad.
    - Equal rosters means you now have a chance to shine as a coach but it takes time to get systems setup (which we don't give any of our coaches making them useless and depending on talent only)
    - Players are who they are, if you expect more from them you are only fooling yourself, if you're playing in the Brasileirao for a middle of the road team, don't compare that player with Iniesta, that's just ********ing dumb...
    - And players in Brazil get reps, and once they do they stick to the players even when not being true, Fred will forever be a cone, even if we know that he was a striker that scored 12 goals in 20 games and was within the top 5 top forwards when it comes to movement.

    But no.. we'll call him a cone and say.. OMG ALL OF BRAZIL IS SAYING IT!! HOW CAN YOU SAY OTHERWISE!?

    Maria... vai com as outras vai
     
  20. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    #45 Guigs, Jul 9, 2014
    People are basing James success on 5 games, too short of a sample size, instead of his previous season at Monaco for example.

    If a person that follows Monaco comes in here and says, well I think James Rodriguez do great things, then that's something else. Just the fact that he was hardly talked about before the tournament kind of says it all.
     
  21. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    #46 celito, Jul 9, 2014
    I will admit I've only seen him play for Colombia. But not only in the WC. First time I saw him was in the friendly vs us in 2012 and I was impressed. So much that I pointed it out to a couple of friends of mine. Then I saw him a few more times playing for Colombia. So I am not this knee jerk reaction group just judging him based on his WC performance.
     
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  22. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    #47 Mengão86, Jul 9, 2014
    A few known names that could find their way on the Seleção for 2018 and weren't on the squad this WC: Diego Alves, Rafael, Danilo, Dedé, Marquinhos, Doria, Lucas Leiva, Sandro, Fernando (Porto), Coutinho, Firmino, Lucas......

    Some apostas: Gabriel (Santos), Thalles (Vasco), Cesar (Flamengo), Mayke (Cruzeiro), if Alex Telles can leave Turkey, maybe him....a couple of other names with promise, but I wouldn't bank on them.
     
  23. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    #48 Guigs, Jul 9, 2014
    I think most of their decisions are made to appease the population, I really believe that right now they are having the conversation about what's the next coach who has won enough that if they call him to be the NT coach they won't get heat for if he doesn't succeed.

    Nobody would take a chance in CBF or in any of the clubs in Brazil because if you lose 5 games in a row in Brazil you're in CRISE!!!

    We love that word! CRISE!!! anything that happens outside of winning = CRISE!!!
     
  24. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    #49 Mengão86, Jul 9, 2014
    So who would be your candidate that CBF wouldn't consider because it doesn't appease the public? Hold on, let me guess..... Cristóvão Borges?
     
  25. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    #50 Guigs, Jul 9, 2014
    Actually Tite or Juninho Pernambucano

    Borges is one of my favorite coaches and favorite upcoming coaches, he would be the kind of coach you would place in Brazil and yes leave him there for a while, but he wouldn't have the backing up of titles so easy target to excuse bad results which are normal until everything starts falling into place.

    Tite would have the titles to hold him there for a while, and Juninho has the charisma to be able to sustain that position.

    My dream? Juninho president of CBF and Tite our coach.
     
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