Seattle and the Salary Cap

Discussion in 'MLS: Commissioner - You be The Don' started by supercooper, Aug 7, 2012.

  1. supercooper

    supercooper Red Card

    Jun 23, 2008
    I think MLS should look to change the salary cap to be some % of each team's revenues. A team like Seattle should be able to spend more if they draw the fans. I know teams can go the DP route to get above caps, but that is limited + allowing a team to have higher payroll throughout the team.

    It is basically unheard of in pro sports to have such a low payroll-to-revenues % as the Sounders.
     
  2. Oobers

    Oobers Member+

    Oct 17, 2011
    Boise
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Which would essentially eliminate the point of a salary cap.
     
    ji_shuheng and Jasonma repped this.
  3. Zxcv

    Zxcv Member+

    Feb 22, 2012
    I don't like teams being restricted by salary caps either, but a rule like that would turn off investors, make smaller market teams even more uncompetitive, lead to 3-4 horse races every year, and in all likelihood send many teams overreaching into the red (source: world soccer).
     
  4. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    It's amazing how quick people are to suggest things that run counter to how MLS got where it is today, and how every domestic league before it crashed and burned.
     
    Jasonma and Roger Allaway repped this.
  5. supercooper

    supercooper Red Card

    Jun 23, 2008
    yes and no. Keeping salaries to a certain % of revenue is also a form of a cap.

    It is not realistic for investors to think MLS can be some sort of anomaly amongst sports leagues in the world by paying such little in payroll. Maybe it gets done gradually, but fans have the right to expect high quality on the field (translated higher payrolls) over time. I'm ok with it for now, since
    there is a payback of original infrastructure costs for some of the owners of the league still, but a team like the Sounders should not be operated at huge cash flow profits each year without strong reinvestment. Teams should be quasi-community goods- not huge profit makers.
     
  6. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    For a league, sure. For individual teams, not so much.
     
  7. supercooper

    supercooper Red Card

    Jun 23, 2008
    Andy- but this is not apples to apples. MLS is so different from NASL in so many ways, that you can't take what happened in NASL and say, 'see you should have a cap and make it as low as possible'.

    I've defended the owners many times on these threads and believe they deserve to make a return (especially the original owners). But it shouldn't be an outsized profit each year, and right now- the caliber of play of MLS is below where it should be relative to revenues. We deserve better quality soccer over time.

    Admittedly, it is a delicate balancing act. I'm not proposing anything like the variances we saw in NASL.
     
    Unak78 repped this.
  8. Zxcv

    Zxcv Member+

    Feb 22, 2012
    The money coming in for Seattle can very easily be spent on marquee players of a higher quality than they have now, which would increase standard of quality at Seattle without leading to league wide changes that put investors off.

    Its easy to sell the idea of marquee players to investors, because the onus is on the investor to either makes things happen or not. % of revenue on salary cap is directly telling investors that they are consigned to the limits of their market. The DP rule at least provides the illusion of parity, and gives investors the chance of splashing big money on a name if they choose to.

    The game isn't at a stage yet where thats a realistic option; down the line, I wholeheartedly agree that % of revenue cap is the best way going forward.

    Also, how much money is Seattle actually making? I'm sure there are profits, but are they that substantial?
     
  9. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    If you give teams different financial basis for what they can pay players, you begin the creation of an underclass of teams. What has made MLS what it is, and what has made the Mexican league as successful and as popular as it is, and what has made the NFL the biggest, richest, most successful sports league in the world (by far) are the mechanisms that drive parity. (And don't call it socialism, it's not. If anything, it's mercantilism).

    You untether MLS from parity and and you can forget it.
     
    When Saturday Comes and Jasonma repped this.
  10. supercooper

    supercooper Red Card

    Jun 23, 2008
    How many championships have the Galaxy won in recent years?

    I think a danger over term if the quality of play remains at current levels. When the play is like Galaxy-Sounders the other night or 'Quakes-LA a few weeks ago......good standard for MLS, quality match for this level, good viewing. But I have sat through some god-awful Chicago Fire games and KC has been disintegrating into some poor quality as well. MLS is still uneven and it is box of chocolates on quality that needs to be addressed. There needs to be more money spent on talent overall in the league. Maybe a 4th DP is enough to tip tide on most teams towards quality play although I have to admit a problem is that some of the DPs just take the night off sometimes...and it really affects the quality of matchs. Henry sure doesn't seem to like to travel to me, for example.

    Because of the low amount of money spent on salaries, quality can really drop when going to the bench, for example.
     
  11. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Irrelevant to the above competition. Their salary distribution is limited to the same constraints as every other team.

    You give them the wherewithal to let them pay the players down the line significantly more, that's what you're talking about.

    Every team has the ability to pay a couple players whatever they want. Fortunately, soccer isn't a one or two player sport, but teams of 11 at a time, and usually 15-18 significant players.

    You upset the financial balance of the league where suddenly some teams are allowed to shell out significant amounts of cash down-roster, you basically are going to blow up the league.
     
    Jasonma and Zxcv repped this.
  12. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    And, frankly, it's a pointless discussion, so you can have the last word.

    Leagues that get salary caps, (or budgets,) never drop them (unless they're in their desperate death-throes).

    The MLS Salary Budget is never going away, so I don't see any point in continuing the discussion (on my end, you can knock yourself out.)
     
  13. supercooper

    supercooper Red Card

    Jun 23, 2008
    You can install taxes and other things that lessen the effect
     
  14. edwardgr

    edwardgr Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because the luxury tax works oh so well in MLB. Yes it would be nice if the salary budget grew a little faster, and perhaps the next CBA will allow for that. But this idea is full of folly, with Seattle's max attendance 3x that of most of the league we could easily out revenue and therefore outspend the rest of the league.

    I have no doubt we will surpass the Cosmos total attendance record, but I am pleased we are doing it within the constraints of MLS, and not spending our way to oblivion.
     
  15. When Saturday Comes

    Apr 9, 2012
    Calgary
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Toronto Maple Leafs.
    Dallas Cowboys.
    Washington Redskins.

    Oh and I think every team should have the same maximum amount to spend on players. You want more money for Seattle to spend? ...... Everyone else gets the same cap.
     
  16. supercooper

    supercooper Red Card

    Jun 23, 2008
    I thought attendance revenues are not kept 100% by the club, but there is a split with away teams?
    Also, box office is not only part of a club's revenue
     
  17. supercooper

    supercooper Red Card

    Jun 23, 2008
    no, I think they should increase the % they are spending on players across the board (all teams) but that a club like Seattle should do it more. To address the concerns here, I would calibrate through taxes, etc so that the gap is not so drastic that it effects the overall competitive balance.

    Btw- were you joking with Redskins and Cowboys?
     
  18. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because the luxury tax has worked so well for MLB?
     
  19. gilla

    gilla Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It depends on what your metric is, but there is more parity in MLB, than in the top soccer leagues of Europe.

    I like the idea that your cap is tied to revenues, this is the goal for soccer worldwide, surely there is a way to do this to prevent teams like,<cough> New England, from just scraping by and on the other hand not going completely crazy and setting up an EPl type disparity. Some sort of allocation money bonus could do the trick.
    The reality is a completly revenu based cap would never be passed, but a little incentive is that really bad for the league. Is it bad if we have a couple of clubs that can compete a little better against the Mexican clubs in CONCACAF?

     
  20. supercooper

    supercooper Red Card

    Jun 23, 2008
    I don't think MLB is a good counterargument. Their business is doing better than ever.
    They've had a different champion every year since 2001 (save the Red Sox twice). They've
    had a different runner up most years as well. Some high payroll teams don't make the playoffs every year and some low payroll teams go deep in the playoffs every year.

    Remember too that MLS is a home-n-home knockout in the playoffs. That is easy to pull an upset.
    MLS has a lot of playoff spots too.

    Toronto in MLS has spent a good bit of money on talent, but still sucks. They are underclass of their own doing. Portland has done a poor job in picking talent as well. Soccer players are more ubiquitous and good scouting in Central and Latin America can get you talented players on the cheap vs. having to pay established European veterans. I don't see $$ as the obstacle to be competitive in MLS, but I do think more $$ applied towards talent in MLS (overall) should raise the level even higher.
     
    Unak78 repped this.
  21. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    Why should there be a correlation between ticket sales and salary cap? Why not beer sales? Or scarf sales? Or parking spot sales?
     
  22. edwardgr

    edwardgr Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It isn't but do the math. Seattle's maximum box office revenue assuming $30 per ticket and 67,000 in the stands, less 30%(?) to the league, would be 1.4 million per match. The 67k may be unrealistic for each match but the $30 is also low. For even LA to match that they would need to sellout HDC at ~$75 per ticket.

    Now add to that that Seattle is likely to be in the top 3-5 teams in merchandise and sponsorship and it is easy to see why we would all the sudden be far outpacing most of the league in available player budget spending.

    I am all for raising the leagues salary cap a little more agressively, but not for allowing individual teams to have a cap tied to their own revenue.

    -4th DP, sure maybe.
    -Larry Bird esque rule allowing teams to go over budget by some amount to retain their own 'free agents' sure.

    Yes I realize there is no such thing as a 'free agent' in MLS, what I mean is simply a rule that allows teams to go over budget to retain their own veteran players whose contract has expired and who are not leaving MLS.

    As for MLB sure a small payroll team has on occasion done well since 2001, Since 1997 the Marlins have had two fire sales following World Series wins. The Pirates have not had a winning team since the early 1990's, the Royals save for one season would be in the same boat. Meanwhile the Yankees have not missed the playoffs since 1993.
     
    Jasonma repped this.
  23. gilla

    gilla Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good point that's why you see scarf sales in every box score, I can't think of a single reason a league would want to encourage attendance. Surely this would not impact TV or advertising dollars.

     
  24. Bubba1971

    Bubba1971 Member+

    Nov 12, 2010
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Interesting fact: The Galaxy could pay the salary of Houston, Kansas City, and Montreal COMBINED with their local TV and jersey sponsorship deals.

    Point is, attendance will continue to be a diminishing percent of a team's overall revenue.
     
  25. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    Would allowing some teams to spend more on players encourage overall attendance, leading to a better league wide TV or other advertising deals? If increasing league wide deals is the goal then there are probably much better ways than letting some teams spend more.
     

Share This Page