Seasonal Attendance 2002

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by kasai, Aug 29, 2002.

  1. meg4food

    meg4food New Member

    Oct 12, 2000
    Silver Spring, MD
    Re: All crowds over 30,000 in MLS

     
  2. Dennis P. Crawford

    Dec 5, 2001
    K.C. Wizards attendance

    Kansas City traditionally draws very well for its final home game. In the last few seasons, Kansas City has drawn anywhere from 17,000 to 20,000 fans for its final home game.
     
  3. Sachin

    Sachin New Member

    Jan 14, 2000
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Kenn,

    This match:

    was a doubleheader featuring Alianza Lima of Peru against a Colombian club, possibly Nacional.

    Sachin
     
  4. Mattbro

    Mattbro Member+

    Sep 21, 2001
    Kenn, looking over your list, one thing definitely caught my attention: 35,000 in the Big D one year for Cinqo de Mayo. I checked mlsnet for this year's schedule and found no home game on May 5. Was that the only year they did a Cinqo de Mayo game? Why in the world would they not do one of those every year? And LA too. Especially because from what I gather, the Burn has terrific Latino (and Mexican, in particular?) support.
     
  5. kyledane

    kyledane Member

    Jan 28, 2000
    Near San Francisco
    Reality check time again. Regardless of where you want to look for comparisons - NASL, WUSA, WNBA, English Division 1, Holland's top soccer league, whatever - you need to recognize that getting 10K per game is not a joke. 10K per game is a solid fan base. 15K is even stronger.

    MLS certainly isn't in the same league as the major four, and those are the numbers most fans want to compare the league to. But in the proper perspective, MLS attendance overall is in good shape, including even Kansas City and San Jose.

    If anything, Kansas City is one of the league's recent success stories since its attendance has increased over the past three seasons (from 8100 in '99 to 9100 in '00 to 11K the last two years). If you want anything to make the owners salivate it is growth, not absolute numbers.
     
  6. nancyb

    nancyb Member

    Jun 30, 2000
    Falls Church, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Last year - two doubleheaders with Freedom that drew 30k or more each. Newness brought out the curious ones in large numbers. This year? We topped 20k for one, didn't hit it for the other, I believe.

    Last year - World Cup Qualifier DH. Sellout, over 50k. This year - Pre- WC friendly DH. A little over 30K. The difference in numbers for those two games works out to significant attendance differences for the two seasons.

    This year - we suck worse than we sucked last year. The Post has written the team off and we are lucky to get a pre-game list of names of probable starters.
     
  7. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Andy, Sachin:

    Thanks. Made those updates. If there are any others, bring them on.

    Oh, and tell me again how we're going to get to 30k for an average? ;)

    Mattbro: I believe that is the only time they did it. I originally (way back when) had that as a ??? and someone wrote to me and told me it was a big Cinco de Mayo match. Don't know why they wouldn't continue that. Maybe El Jefe knows....
     
  8. Mattbro

    Mattbro Member+

    Sep 21, 2001
    I think I remember that game happening. Wasn't Hugo Sanchez playing for the Burn that year, or is my math fuzzy?
     
  9. Mattbro

    Mattbro Member+

    Sep 21, 2001
    Actually, I think it's all starting to come back. That was '96 (the inaugural year) and they had Hugo, right? I think I remember a couple of other Cinqo de Mayo matches since then, and one of them was around 15 K. Or maybe I'm just imagining that? So maybe they concluded May 5 wasn't such a big draw in Dallas after all.
     
  10. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They've actually had Cinco de Mayo games a few times. So why did they get 35,000 in 1996 and not in subsequent years? Well, first of all, in 1996, you still had a novelty factor. Second, the Burn spent twice their budget in 1996 on promotion and weighted it heavily towards the beginning of the season. Third, they partnered with the biggest Spanish-language radio station in town. Fourth, they had a post-game concert by a pretty well-known Tejano band.

    Hugo Sanchez didn't arrive in Dallas until a couple of weeks later.
     
  11. Mattbro

    Mattbro Member+

    Sep 21, 2001
    Thanks for the info El Jefe. This means that minus the novelty factor and the Mexican band, those numbers would be hard to top again.

    While we're reminiscing though, does squashduck.com ring a bell?
     
  12. nancy...I agree with you about DC, but isnt the drop almost 5,000 a game? I mean over a 14 game season thats 70,000 less people. This year its not like DC couldnt have drawn some large numbers too...the Uruguay v US friendly and Im sure a WUSA doubleheader or 2. I agree United sucked mroe this year, but to me it seemes as though theyre at least on the right track.... That drop, at leats to me, is quite disturbing.
     
  13. Sachin

    Sachin New Member

    Jan 14, 2000
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    On top of all this, the first few DC United matches seemed to be played in major rainstorms.

    In reality, DC's attendence would have been much. much worse if not for either the largest or second-largest season ticket base in MLS.

    Sachin
     
  14. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    falcon, let this be a little lesson for ya: Sam doesn't speak often, but when he does, he's worth listening to.

    Here endeth the lesson.
     
  15. SamPierron

    SamPierron BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 30, 1998
    Kansas City
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually, I speak often on the KC boards, but only speak on other boards when KC insight is needed.

    And, yes, I'm certainly worth listening to. :)
     
  16. Lucid

    Lucid Member

    May 17, 1999
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Well Sam is 1 for 1 so far. 20k on Saturday night against the Fire.

    The first number is the Wizards average, then the second is the league average.

    2002 - 12,000 (15,501) (Guessing 16k for the last game.)
    2001 - 10,954 (14,961)
    2000 - 9,112 (13,756)
    1999 - 8,183 (14,282)
    1998 - 8,073 (14,312)
    1997 - 9,058 (14,619)
    1996 - 12,878 (17,406)

    You can totally see an immediate impact in the change of GM's in KC, when Curt Johnson took over in 2000, number go up significantly each year. Pre-CJ, big pushes for ticket sells targeting certain games wasn't around, with the exception of the "School day" debacle where kick-off was at about noon on a Wed. afternoon in '98. :rolleyes:

    CJ's big thing is targeting certain games of the year, about 2 or 3 of them, and have massive pushes for youth league sells. That on top of about 2 or 3 specialty nights each year (concerts, 4th of July, Fire works, etc...) he's made impressive attendence numbers in a market as small as KC without a SSS like in C-bus.

    Here's how this years attendence breaks down..
    21301 (Can't remember)
    20173 (Last game)
    19641 (4th of July)
    11769
    11530
    10636
    9877
    9721
    8364 (non Sat. game)
    8288
    7461 (2 days after 4th of July. How many people do you expect to goto 2 games in 3 days in a city KC's size?)
    7266
    6271 (non Sat. game)

    So from the looks of it, there were two unexcusable crowds on Saturday nights (7266 vs. Dallas & 8288 vs. NE), but other than that there were 5 acceptable crowds (all around 10-12k), and then 3 great crowds. I'm throwing the non-Saturday games out because we've even seen sub-10k crowds in places like LA and Chicago and everywhere else on those nights, cities 5-10 times the size of KC.

    And so if you are one of the people like me who believe money for the MLS is more important than attendence (because it truely is and it's dumb to think otherwise), KC's 12,000 is the same for other teams 14,000-15,000 because of the break on playing @ Arrowhead. That on top of KC should be getting a SSS in the next few years makes KC a pretty stable MLS market.
     
  17. jmeissen0

    jmeissen0 New Member

    Mar 31, 2001
    page 1078
    i believe that high for the season was a double header with the women's national team... maybe a wusa preseason thing


    -jim
     
  18. MtMike

    MtMike Member+

    Nov 18, 1999
    the 417
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    according to Lucid's number, KC has increased attendance by 4,000 per game during the last 3 seasons. Also, 2 of the 4 biggest crowds in our history have been this season.
     
  19. Sam,

    Time to give credit where credit is due. 20k went way over the 15k you said. Go KC. If you get that for the last game then you will significantly increase attendance from last year. You got any inside info on stocks?
     
  20. MtMike

    MtMike Member+

    Nov 18, 1999
    the 417
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Walmart :D

    Oh, I hear Worldcom and Enron are both real cheap. Could be some good buys. :D
     
  21. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Sam had no inside information. Kansas City traditionally does very well for the last game or two of sports seasons. I remember in the 70s that the two biggest events were opening day and the final of the Royals season. "Gotta go now, they won't be back for six months!"

    The numbers were lost in the great BigSoccer crash, but I compiled KC's biggest numbers, and from 96-00, the final was the largest game, except for 96 when I think the final was second or third. Last year, the team had already presold 20k for the final/doubleheader with USWNT/China, and was hoping for 30k.

    The fact that the 2nd to last game got 20k is great, and even unexpected. If the weather holds, KC could set a franchise record against Colorado.

    --- That said, I'll be happy for 10k to any home playoff games the team holds.
     
  22. rcoull

    rcoull Member+

    May 18, 2001
    The Woodlands, TX
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Kenn,

    A great site..thanks for all your hard work..

    However, I do have a slight addition for you....

    San Jose's 4th highest crowd (2000 Season Finale vs Columbus) was a double header with the USWNT vs Brazil in their last send off game before they headed of to the Olympics.

    I hope this helps,

    -Richard
     
  23. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, he might have. He's closer to the situation than you or I are. ;)

    Andy, Andy, Andy. You know where you can find those numbers, don't you? Don't you? ;)

    1996-The home opener was biggest (21,141), but the home finale was second-biggest (18,594).

    1997 - The home finale wasn't big, but it was the biggest (12,485).

    1998 - The home finale, again, wasn't big, but it was the biggest (13,146).

    1999 - The home finale (14,845) was second-biggest behind the home opener (15,509).

    2000 - The home finale drew 20,078 and was the biggest crowd of the year.

    2001 - What turned out to be the last game of the year drew the biggest crowd of the year (20,734), but, as mentioned, they would have done better for the originally-scheduled finale.

    2002 - The opener drew 21,301, the club record. They also had the 20,173 last weekend.

    Home finales, yes, do well in Kansas City. But the penultimate game has only averaged 12,377, and that's with counting last year's de facto home finale and with last weekend's game.

    Right you are. Very unexpected, but predicted by Mr.Pierron. A franchise record against Colorado would do quite nicely, thank you.

    Right you are. You should see the playoff schedule the Fire might end up with. First playoff game potentially at home on Thursday the 26th on ESPN2, making it a 6:30pm kickoff, meaning city folks almost can't get here by kickoff and they'll have about 3 days to sell it. And if the series goes three games, they'd have the third game back home the following Wednesday (this is all depending on seedings of course, they could not win the East and not get home field in the first round anyway, which actually might work out better for them).
     
  24. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thank you, sir. Help is always appreciated.
     
  25. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    15k on a weekend is never "unexpected," at least by Wizard homers. Not necessarily "anticipated", but not out of the ordinary. The days were the season high is 12-13k are gone, hopefully for good. Sam predicted 15k which is a sight bit different than predicting 20k.

    Given the fact that last season's penultimate game also drew 20k, I hope we're seeing the beginning of a trend here in Kansas City. Even with out the WNT, the scheduled final last season likely would've broken the franchise record.

    While I'm not on the ground in KC, and I don't idly chat with Justin or Curt as much as I'd like, and certainly nowhere near as much as Mike and Sam do, I like to think I have a decent idea what's going on.

    That said, anytime Sam offers an "opinion", I usually find it to be a very informed one. Not everything "comes to pass", but Sam rarely bluffs. There's a lot of bluff and bluster on these threads, but Sammy J tends to bring the goods.

    I'd take some of his stock picks, too. :)
     

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