Hi, I just watched this goal http://de.eurosport.yahoo.com/19012012/73/int-fussball-buntes-gag-oder-unsportlichkeit.html and asked myself if the referee should have given the player a yellow card (and maybe indirect free kick for the other team, thus not allowing the goal) for unsporting behaviour. What do you think?
Video doesn't work outside of Europe. Anyway, with a player getting on his knees to head the ball in on the goal line can be considered unsporting behavior. In fact, in the US we are instructed to caution the player and restart with an indirect free kick to the defense.
Oh, I am sorry. Well, your description is spot on. He was alone in front of the goal, stopped the ball and then got on his knees to head the ball in. Thanks. Actually I would die to see such a scene and the stupid look on the face of the "goal scorer".
here it is on youtube -[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oBkuw7FqYM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oBkuw7FqYM[/ame]
In my younger days there would likely be some "on-field justice" dispensed as well...now that I referee I don't do those things as a player - at least I won't admit to them, and I'll demand proof
I think there is a current response from Jim Allen up on the site to this very question. This question comes around every few years or so. Here it is in its most current iteration: http://www.askasoccerreferee.com/?p=3453 R
It wasn't in any way necessary for him to score like that, but I think a lot, and I mean a lot, of referees would allow the goal regardless of the level and the official laws. When is the line crossed? What if he back-heeled it into the net? What if there is a keeper in the goal and a player flicks it into the next in a flash way when he could have just slotted it in? Balotelli knocked the ball in with his shoulder last month.... Some players run on the wing doing keep-ups..... For me, the opposition will be more concerned with the errors made in their defense rather than how the player scored the goal. I for one, wouldn't disallow that goal unless the player makes a clear gesture to wind up the opposition i.e waving his hands at the opponent before he scores or something similar. Just for simply, heading the ball into the goal from the floor, I would allow the goal. Maybe he doesn't head the ball and will never score a header again
@Mike10, I can think of few things a player could do in this situation that would "wind up the opposition" more than this - this is "something similar" to waving his hands at the opponent before he scores, as you reference above. There is a line somewhere about what would be too much in this instance, what would constitute sufficient taunting to warrant the caution and IFK - that's fine to debate, but wherever the line is, this play is well beyond it. Caution, IFK coming out, no goal.
Hi, I meant waving his hands before he scores the goal like he did. I don't know if it's possible to just caution the player without disallowing the goal or whether it would contradict itself but I'm not really sure if he did anything wrong. In a way, it's a similar debate to running up the score in youth games. I'm of the opinion that a player is entitled to score a goal in any way he wants...be it if he passes that chance in or if he knocks it in with his head.
In that vein if a player were to be entitled to score any way they want, it would invalidate the concept of unsporting behavior occurring in the process of scoring a goal. In this case not only do I disagree, but so does US Soccer. To me both as a player and as a referee, what is waving the red flag in front of the bull is not the player waving his hands, it's stopping the ball before it goes in, going to ground and nudging it in with his head. That, IMO, is the definition of unsporting behavior, poor sportsmanship, etc. What would be the icing on the cake is the goal is scored purely because the defender and GK collide, not due to any individual effort save for being on the field, breathing and within 10 yards of the ball. If I'm a player on the other team, I would be calculating in my head who the next opponent is (or my next 3) and if it's worth me sitting out that game or games. If I'm the referee, my game management goes into overdrive. Not only does he get a caution (with an IFK coming out, no goal) but he will be told that I'll do my best to save him from himself over the next XXX minutes, but I'm gonna need some help from him. I'd also have to keep a close watch on him and the other team around him - and talk with the captains on the other team, if needed. And, IMO, doesn't matter if it's any level over U4, that goal will pi$$ off the other team somethin' fierce, and the game just changed from soccer to "kill the guy with the ball". Sorry, this is a bit of a rambling post.
Caveat: IMO, the players behavior qualifies as USB, so the following answer is predicated on that. As I see it, depends if he showboats like this before or after the ball has crossed the line -- (1) Before the ball crosses the line (as he did in this case), then play is stopped BEFORE the ball crosses the line (in the ref's mind, even if the whistle is not yet sounded), caution for USB, restart is an IFK coming out. (2) After the ball crosses the line (not in this case, but something that qualifies as taunting and/or excessive celebration), then play is stopped when the ball has fully crossed the line, so the goal has to count, caution offender(s) for USB, restart is a kickoff. I don't see anyway that you could keep the goal AND still caution the player for his behavior that occurred BEFORE the ball crossed the line. If someone does see a rationale for that, I'd like to read it. I won't go into the running up the score scenario because I think there are tangible differences and other factors that come into play. If someone wants to go there, let's make a new thread or (as I'd guess one exists) resurrect an old one and re-read it before commenting.
I understand every point made. If I was a player in that position, I would be more concerned about putting the ball in the back of the net in the quickest and simplest way. I just think it's a tricky situation. I know I'm being really on the opposing side here (maybe just for debate sake) but what if that player thinks that's the best way to put the ball in the net? Who are we to judge? How about if he does a keepy up and then volleys the ball into the goal... I don't think the player should behave in that way but I think taking away the goal is harsh. However, on the flip side, if he's heading that in from the floor then the goal won't be that important so ruling it out wouldn't usually affect the result of the game.
Well, for the games I do (ranging from U-littles to 1st Div Men's Amateur), the referee is the one in the end who does have to judge whether or not the behavior was inappropriate - he has all the cards, literally. Based on the video, to me this is not a a tricky situation - but that's for this case - other ways of putting the ball in the net may well find different outcomes...
Just to add some mud to the waters. Putting the ball into the net the same way (header from the ground) may be legit in a different situation. For example a player has beaten the defenders and keeper in the same manner as the video, but trips over his own two feet on the way to goal. Then crawls to the ball and heads it in before any other defender can recover and clear the ball.
I disagree with this conclusion. Jim himself states: "The player who gets down on his hands and knees and heads the ball into the opponents’ goal is taunting them and committing unsporting behavior. There is no other possible (rational) explanation for such behavior" "Play ceases immediately a player commits such an offense, which, in the case we are considering, is unsporting behavior for his taunting of the opposing team. Therefore, no goal has been scored, nor can it be scored, because the offense was committed before the ball entered the goal." But here's the kicker that Jim misses. No player would get down on his knees and head a ball UNLESS it is to score a goal. In other words, the taunting comes not just from the heading, but from the heading TO SCORE A GOAL. There's no question this would have been a clean goal. I'm not going to penalize a team because one guy is an asshole. IMO, the taunting comes not in the heading, but in the scoring of the goal. Result Goal, Caution for USB.
I disagree and think Jm nailed this one. If the play is taunting, the taunting is not in scoring the goal, per se, but occurs before the ball crosses the goal line. The taunting is in getting down on his hands and knees in an attempt to score in a way to humiliate the opponent -- it's still unsporting if he flubs the header and it doesn't cross the line. (Though, depending on the match, I might not choose to caution that partcular USB as he emarassed himself pretty much in the process.) IFK at the spot* of the taunting/USB.
But, I feel my point about taunting the opponent clearly before the on the ground heading takes place is important because you then know he IS taunting the opponent. I.e Making some sort of gesture, and then doing what he did. What if he's not intending to taunt the opponent in anyway? What if he's just having a bit of fun to entertain the home fans and his team-mates? Funnily enough, I watched this game on a live stream because I was having a look at the online sports betting and if I had been a bit quicker I could have got a bet on the next goal to be scored by the home team, however I was intrigued as to what was happening. I don't think any of the opposition had an issue with what the player did, and there was no protests.
Billy, as the heading (IMO taunting) occurred before the goal was scored, I don't think Jim A missed a thing on this one. Scoring the goal itself wasn't taunting - if he had just kicked it in and ran back up the field, there would be no issue - it was HOW he scored the goal - and that action occurred before the goal was scored. So to me, play stopped, issue caution, IFK, no goal. And we penalize teams all the time for someone being an ass - they get cautions and/or ejections for their behavior and end up playing a man down.
Not quite so. We are instructed that if we stop play for the misconduct (this is misconduct) that we cannot allow the goal. It is not a mandatory directive at all.
But that is open to interpretation. Watching the game live, I know for a fact the team were more concerned about losing the game 3-0 and their awful defending rather than how the player choose to score the goal. Just because a player has made this move and it has resulted in the goal means it's being labelled unsporting behaviour. Yet a team can keep the ball away from another team for five minutes whilst the crowd taunt the opponents by cheering every pass and the team play to the crowd...or Cristiano Ronaldo can deliberately nut meg an opponent two times in a row or a player can humiliate a goalkeeper by chipping it over his head. Everyone's entitled to their opinion but there is no way I would disallow this goal in this situation. Is this unsporting behaviour? [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI4MoRG1YUc"]Zinedine Zidane humiliated the goalkeeper - YouTube[/ame]
Apples and oranges. The Zidane one involves skill, the USB one was a gift that my dead grandmother could have scored on. For me the question is why didn't the player just kick the ball in the net for the easy goal? For no reason other than to taunt the opposition, which as previously mentioned merits USB, no goal, IFK out.
He's done very similar in real games...I just can't be bothered to go through all the clips on YouTube. I just showed the clip of the India game and asked another referee who walked through the door if the goal should be disallowed for unsporting conduct and he basically said " No way. Don't tell me that was disallowed?" I said " But is he not mocking the opponents or trying to embarrass them?" and he said " Ummmm yeah but it's exactly the same thing as a nut meg or a player flicking it over a player's head a few times". If we're disallowing goals for that, we're taking ourselves too seriously and doing nothing to go against the notion that referee's don't understand the game or aren't in touch with the game. This referee chose not to do anything. I can understand if you are being assessed and if the LOTG clearly states that this should be disallowed but regardless of the laws, if you think this should be disallowed even if the laws allow it, then you need to loosen up a little.