Scandinavian/Nordic non-football thread

Discussion in 'Scandinavia' started by Ceres, Apr 2, 2011.

  1. jjkoggan

    jjkoggan Member

    Apr 11, 2008
    Atheism is a lack of belief, so it cannot be a religion and therefore doesn't need any special protections. You could have your own church, but there would be no discussion about how to honor and serve any supernatural forces. The freedom atheists usually express is the desire to be free from the influence of religion, and since religion in Norway has been embedded in the culture for so long, including the long existence of statskirken, it is difficult to disentangle religion and culture.

    It was interesting to read about the recent episode of blackface controversy in Norwegian newspapers. I think we all eventually get to the same place about political correctness since offending nobody is virtually impossible, but more important is to avoid cancel culture that stifles communication between disparate groups and polarizes us into different camps that can't find common ground.

    It has been interesting to see Norway adjust to its fairly recent journey into the challenges of ethnic diversity over the years. One fundamental concept that I am not sure you will ever overcome is the idea of other ethnicities becoming "helt norsk".
     
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  2. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    "helt norsk"?
     
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  3. jjkoggan

    jjkoggan Member

    Apr 11, 2008
    «Completely Norwegian « Being a full fledged Norwegian generally means having Norwegian genes. Norwegian Americans who don’t know what “helt norsk» means are more Norwegian than those born in Norway and raised in Norway by Norwegians, but a different ethnicity. You and I may have different ancestors but you are just as “American” as I am, especially if you act like a typical American and have citizenship.
     
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  4. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    Norwegians are probably more introvert then our bigbrothers in Sweden. Nissene over skog og hei is a satire where all the characters are a satire on a type of person. Several similar series have been made throughout the times.
    It is a part of our culture to make fun of more or less anyone. Danes, Swedes,Finns, Gays, Immigrants, religions, janitors, Fishermenn, Rich people, politicians and last if not least our self ;)
    Im not sure i would characterize this as blackface. And maybe this is why we push the limits on most topics . Like Charlie Hebdo .




     
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  5. jjkoggan

    jjkoggan Member

    Apr 11, 2008
    Interesting perspective given that many cultural studies show a Norwegian passion for “likhet» (sameness) and “konformitet» (conformity) as expressed in the Law of Jante and the acceptance of high levels of taxation that achieve more “likhet”

    Pushing limits is not compatible with these studies, but of course no society can or should be reduced down to simple descriptions or stereotypes
     
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  6. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    Gotcha. I lived in Sweden for 16 months when I was 19 and it's incredibly diverse despite its perception of just being blondes loving hockey. Though, it def seems there is a distinctive "us" and "them". That was over a decade though and I haven't been back since summer 2011.
     
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  7. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    I get your point . And yes we are all for likhet and konformitet . But on our own terms if you will . We want more or less everyone to be equal. Still everyone have to accept to be made fun of. Not because of skin colour, but of stereotypes.
    Maybe it is Norwegians that is slow to adapt to the future . I dont know. Im just telling you how i perceive it .
     
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  8. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    I dont find one thing to exclude the other. In Norway over 50% off the people define as non religious . Still most off the people believe in a "higher power"
    My point was that peoples beliefs is highly respected. No matter what you believe in.
    There is still several places in the world where ateism is punished by death.
    And yes people who brake out from their religions may need protection. Even here.


    I guess we expect foreigners to adapt to the "Norwegian way" . We may be a very small country with a very small population. But we have strong culture. If people want to live here, we expect them to adapt. And on the way Norway and Norwegians have to adapt to. But how much we have to adapt is a never ending discussion.
     
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  9. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    clearly foreigners have to learn to drink like you VIkings.
     
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  10. jjkoggan

    jjkoggan Member

    Apr 11, 2008
    #635 jjkoggan, Dec 21, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2020
    The "special protections" I was referring to were special laws. Protection from violence or harassment is covered by existing laws.


    I am sure this is true for all western nations, tribalism is a core tenet of human existence. Highly individualistic nations , however that don't see themselves as connected or responsible for each other will respond differently to outsiders and multiculturalism than more cohesive homogeneous cultures that value social conformity.
     
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  11. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    Im not following you here? What kind of "special protections" and special laws are you talking about?

     
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  12. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    #637 vifvaf, Dec 22, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2020
    The story of Nidarosdomen (Nidaros cathedral )
    The cathedral has stories back to the battle on Stiklestad . A Battle in 1030 when King Olav Haraldsson came back from Russia to take the power in Norway. Olav died in the battle. And a church was built by the Nidaros river. He's remains was dug up the year after his death and his bones was declared holy by the church, placed in a coffin and placed on the high altar in Clement's Church in Nidaros. (St Olav)


    His statue ca be seen several places in Norway and several other places in the world. But mainly in Trondheim.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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  13. jjkoggan

    jjkoggan Member

    Apr 11, 2008
    Religion and freedom of speech are "special protections" because they are called out specifically in our constitution. There is no special protection, for example- the freedom to play football in the constitution, even though all have the right to do so because there are no laws prohibiting it. The same with atheism, there are no special protections in the constitution that say you can chose to not believe in a religion. Not everything requires special laws that spell them out.

    As far as protections for physical harms for atheists, they require no more special protection than anyone else who is physically threatened, it is simply illegal to attack someone due to philosophical difference unless in self defense.
     
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  14. jjkoggan

    jjkoggan Member

    Apr 11, 2008
    Yes, I have been in Trondhjem and seen Nidarosdomen several times. A nice town, but the dialect is difficult to understand for a non-native speaker like myself, what is the saying... Det var en gang en hundj som... I don't remember the rest. Do you know it? I learned to speak østlandsk so I struggle with some other dialects.
     
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  15. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    Im sorry but don't share your view in this topic. Atheism and non religious is also included in this.The provision is not exhaustive, and non-religious views of life are also included in practice, for example, atheism.
    The point isn`t what you believe in. The point is to ensure the safety of the people and let them say and believe in what they want. It isn't only the religious minority groups that are affected, but also atheists and religious skeptics.

    In 2017 the International Humanist Ethical Union (IHEU) made a report that stated that 84 countries have laws that discriminate against non-believers. In 22 countries, it is forbidden to leave the state religion and declare oneself non-religious. In 12 of these countries, declaring oneself non-religious is punishable by death and several countries practice the death penalty for blasphemy.

    On December 16, 2016, President Obama signed an amendment to the "Frank R. Wolf International Religious Freedom Act." which meant that both atheists and non-religious people's right to believe it would have to be protected on an equal footing with religious minorities. This was a historic step in the right direction and had great significance for a group of people who are often overlooked in such contexts.
     
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  16. jjkoggan

    jjkoggan Member

    Apr 11, 2008
    #641 jjkoggan, Dec 24, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2020
    I was referring to modern western democracies where freedom of religion and speech provisions make special protections unneccessary, not the many other nations that struggle with basic freedoms we take for granted. Most people in Norway or the USA don't go to church on a regular basis anyway without any negative consequences and actively religious people are a minority.
     
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  17. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    You said : Religion and freedom of speech are "special protections" because they are called out specifically in our constitution. There is no special protection, for example- the freedom to play football in the constitution, even though all have the right to do so because there are no laws prohibiting it. The same with atheism, there are no special protections in the constitution that say you can chose to not believe in a religion.

    Like I said before. The provision is not exhaustive, and non-religious views of life are also included in practice, for example, atheism.
    I agree it isn't a big problem. But it exist here too. Take people that brake from Jehovas Vitner or Muslims that convert to Christianity or become atheists. People that has fled and have the need for protection here because of their belief or lack off it. These people may need protection . I guess Sweden like Norway have people i that has broken with the muslim environment and spoken about it in the media after they left. Then been "hunted" by people to tell the truth. The issue is still a case in the in the judiciary. Only not as extreme and open as in other countries.

    And the fight for freedom off speech is a fight we never must take fro granted.
    Like the Muhamed caricatures . The right to teach younger people about the history behind the drawings and to be able to show the in the classroom.


    Break from Jehovas Vitner
    https://frifagbevegelse.no/forside/...r-religiose-utbrytere-6.158.611860.d491e77a87

    Kadra Yusuf . A Somali woman that went undercover to tell people about the story behind the female genital cutting in the Somali community in Norway.
    https://www.dagsavisen.no/portrett/kadra-yusuf-modig-mamma-1.718662

    14 year old girl genital mutilation on the kitchen table
    https://www.tv2.no/a/3241810

    Was told to keep quiet about sexual assault
    https://www.tv2.no/a/6261340/

    Muhammed caricatures
    https://www.aftenposten.no/norge/po...laerere-staar-fritt-til-aa-vise-muhammed-kari
     
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  18. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    Wednesday we had a huge landslide in Ask .
    The slide is 700x300 meters .
    1000 people have been evacuated. 9 people is missing and 1 is found dead .
    We have been offered half from Sweden and Denmark . The Swedish experts arrived yesterday and went into the slide with their Norwegian colleagues and the Norwegian dog handlers .
    Helicopters and drones have searched for people day and night . 13 people have been saved from inside the slide.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  19. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
  20. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
  21. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
  22. usa_m

    usa_m New Member

    Feyenoord
    United States
    Aug 13, 2011
    drug$+gat$=killaz
  23. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    Is there any reality tv-show in the other Nordic countries with hiking in their respektive countries?








     
  24. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    Meanwhile in Norway
     
  25. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

    Nov 28, 2008
    Norway
    Club:
    Valerenga IF Oslo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway

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