Says leftist: "If I could, I would vote with my feet, instead of my mouth..."

I don't?

But...but that would mean that Karl has a bizarre obsession with one of my two-line posts! That doesn't sound exactly precisely 100% like him at all!

If you hate Karl's stupid-ass posts, the terrorists have already won.

[Crash Davis]

Man, that ball got outta here in a hurry. I mean anything travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don't you think?

[/Crash Davis]

 

Darn, I was about to congratulate Jonesy for dissing the French

 

Yep, too late, buddy...
I've adopted a new "strategery":
"preemptive dissing"
It'll be a hit...

 

I'm curious. Why is it when people on the left complain about American policy (foreign or domestic) or things that are wrong in America we therefore dislike the country and should take the next plane to Russia? During the 90's all conservatives did was complain about American governmental institutions, our foreign policy, and our culture yet they weren't accused of hating the country and told to leave.

Conservatives were always complaining about the oppressive and "confiscatory" taxes of the IRS which resulted in the redistribution of wealth. They created all sorts of sinister conspiracy theories about the FBI at Waco regarding a coverup. The NRA was fond of calling the ATF members "jack-booted government thugs" and they and G. Gordon Liddy suggested that some ATF members should be assassinated. During the Elian Gonzalez controversy conservatives like Rush Limbaugh and David Horowitz also used the "jack booted thug" epithet and accused the INS agents of using stormtrooper tactics. In addition anti-government conservatives watered down Clinton's 1996 Anti-Terrorism Bill by stripping away provisions (roving wire taps, monitoring money laundering) which they regarded as an ominous governmental intrusion on civil rights. They also think our public school system is in such a state of disarray that we are in need of school vouchers to remedy the problem. Seems like conservatives have an intense dislike of American government agencies and its agents and do not trust them in the least. Does that mean they hate America?

Needless to say many conservatives were intensely critical of the American foreign policy during the 90's especially the actions in Bosnia and Kosovo. Many of them stated that these actions there were a "farce" and complained that the Serbs were being unfairly demonized. Yet none of them were accused of "giving aid and comfort to the enemy" or hating America. Somehow criticism of Clinton's foreign policy wasn't seen as an attack on America. But criticism of Bush's foreign policy is seen as an attack on America.

Right up to today conservative moralists (Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Cal Thomas, Bill Bennett) are always talking about how American culture is going to hell in a hand basket because of declining moral standards. Abortions are supposedly out of control, young people are too promiscuous, religion is being forced out of the public square and American pop culture is decadent and declining. Falwell in essence stated that America had become so depraved that God had lifted his veil of protection resulting in the carnage of Sept. 11th. If that's not a condemnation of America I don't know what is. If Falwell is so contemptuous of America maybe he should find a more morally upstanding country to emigrate to. If we use the logic conservatives always use agaist liberals with regards to criticism of America that seems to be his only recourse.

The question should be why is criticism of America and her government institutions only acceptable and not considered anti-American when it comes from conservatives.

 

I could not have put it better myself.

And there is no way in hell that Karl or any of the other conservatives on this board can come up with a retort that wouldn't be completely laughable.

 

Oh, I am so in need of a good laugh right now. But I don't think any of them have the guts to try.

 

I was under the impression that lots of American doctors are involved in DWB. Is that not the case?

 

"Go ahead and be selective..." I assume you're being sarcastic, yet you seek to be very, very selective in deciding who is a "real" conservative. (Is John Ashcroft, by the way, a "real conservative"?)
And then you immediately proceed to make a sweeping generalization about the left. Not very selective.

Still Karl, that may have been the least shrill, least hysterical, least ill-reasoned argument I've ever heard you make.

 

Well,since it was founded by a French guy,the Yank doctors in it must hate America.

 

Karl, what do you mean by that? And what reason is there to believe that "the left is emasculated?" Although I'm not sure what you mean by "the left," many people that I think you mean by "the left" have good ideas. The scientist Stephen Weinberg is probably what you mean by "leftist," and he won a Noble Prize for his work in physics. Richard Rorty is among the best living philosophers. Do you consider him of the left?

Also, whether people on the left "complain, complain, complain" is irrelevant to whether any idea that is offered by a "leftist" should be accepted. Some people who complain a lot are usually are right. Some people who complain a lot are often wrong. All people who complain a lot are capable of being right. Alll people who complain a lot are capable of being wrong.

 

Weekly Standard: The New Republic. Cato:Brookings. Chicago Economic School: New Keynesianism. Hoover:Kennedy etc., etc.

There's no monopoly on "intellectual firepower" on either side of the coin.

 

Of course, there are. There are doctors from
all over the world.
I was only pointing out to who founded this
organisation, as I said because of my respect
for him and what he has done.
He is a "politician" as well, nowadays and may
just one day become France's president.
He has done far more than "talking" about issues,
which I like.

 

Wow. I can understand Falwell and Robertson. But you consider Rush Limbaugh, David Horowitz, Bill Bennett and Cal Thomas bogeymen? Last time I checked these were mainstream and well respected members of the right. Even if they were bogeymen how is my citing them any different than you bringing up Johnny Depp and Alec Baldwin as standard bearers for the left? None of us here look to these two actors for leadership yet any time they say something stupid conservatives say "See, that's the mentality of the liberals!"

With regards to the War in Kosovo I disagree with Ben Wattenberg's opinion that supporters of that war were somehow hypocritical because they opposed our action in Vietnam. Yet even if you agree with his assessment many conservatives who ridiculed our intervention in Kosovo because it was purely a humanitarian exercise are guilty of a similar hypocrisy. They now say the War in Iraq was justifiable solely on humantarian grounds. In the absence of WMD, "bulletproof" links to Al Qaeda, and "reconstituted" nuclear weapons, conservatives now say the war was still worth it because we liberated the Iraqi people. This seems to be in stark contradiction to their position regarding our actions in the Balkans.

In any event all of this is besides the point. The fact is conservatives (regardless of their motivation or reasoning) were ALLOWED to give voice to criticism and dissent of our policy in Kosovo without being called mealy-mouthed, anti-American appeasers who were undermining our troops morale. Likewise they were able to criticize Clinton's foreign policy throughout the 90's without being accused of hating America. And school vouchers? I have no problem with your point of view but the fact that you support them indictates that you think something is wrong with our present system. Does that mean that you are denigrating America? Of course not. When liberals think something is wrong with a particular aspect of our nation's policy does that mean that they are denigrating America? According to your arguments it does. Therein lies the contradiction and unfairness in your logic. And that's the point I was making. Conservatives are able to question American policy and no one will jump up and indignantly claim that they are somehow tearing down the country. When liberals question American policy they are considered ungrateful elitists who don't understand how good they have it in America.

 

You're complaining about established stereotypes that get used over and over. Liberals get to be accused of treason and coddling criminals. Conservatives get to be accused of being bigots and misers.

So get over it you mealy-mouthed traitor. Maybe they have debates more to your liking in France.

 

Karl, your idiot alert failed to go off again. You need to get that thing fine-tuned.

Anybody can play this childish tit-for-tat game.

Conservatives = McCarthyism, deficits, the Great Depression, lynching, religious suppression, blah, blah, blah. Liberals freed the South, ended the Depression, balanced the budget, defeated the Nazis, provided Social Security, blah, blah, blah.

Let's just leave it at this: shut your negative nabobbing piehole, you cynical freak.

 

Funny how often I think of those very words whenever I'm listening to conservatives.

 

That's the best you can come up with? Try beating the Depression and the Nazis. Try integration and civil rights.

Lowering marginal tax rate - for *#*#*#*#'s sake, JFK ran on a platform of lowering taxes. The highest rate was *#*#*#*#ing 90% under Ike. And Ronald Reagan passed the largest tax increase in history.

Oh, and a neat way to show geopolitical ignorance is to say that Nancy Reagan's drooling, Alzheimer's-addled hand puppet had anything to do with the fall of the Soviet Union. When people say Reagan won the cold war, all they're doing is pissing all over Lech Walensa, and the people who truly fought communism. Including, by the way, our old friends in Afghanistan. If Jimmy Carter had declared himself dictator-for-life, the USSR would have collapsed just the same. Maybe faster, what with Reagan caving into their threats and lifting the grain embargo, the white-livered comsymp.

And George Bush is fighting terrorism? By tying our entire military down in Operation Inigo Montoya? The Saudis are going to get away scot-free for 9/11, because of George W. Bush. Nice choice of hero-worship, but can you read the news at least occasionally?

Three presidential elections in a row. 49% and falling like a brick. Rules to be us, sucks to be you. If you don't like this country, go to Iraq.

 

I'll take a Princess Bride referrence ("Operation Inigo Montoya" ... classy) over warmed-over Eminem anyday.

RS

 

Here's a fun game to try over the weekend: wait for the reaction you get from telling a neo-con that the collapse of the Evil Empire was not attributable to response to the 80's military buildup, as Soviet defense spending actually peaked in the late '70s, before Ronald Reagan came to office. It’s priceless. But kinda cruel. It’s all they got.

 

So why did Gorbachev come up with Glasnost & Perestroika?

To impress Jodie Foster?

Because Nancy Reagan's astrologer told him to?

My theory is that Gorbachev was so impressed by the mullets of the late 1980's USMNT, that he instituted more open economic policies in the hope that the Soviet team could come up with hairstyles that were just as cool.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj16n2-7.html

You'd figure that the guy that wrote what's at this link would have mentioned Reagan at least once. But he didn't. Like my Role Model PJ O'Rourke said, "An entire empire was brought to its feet because no one wanted to wear Bulgarian shoes."