Saving Green at the Expense of Saving Green

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Chicago1871, Apr 25, 2006.

  1. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Finance
     
  2. fiddlestick

    fiddlestick New Member

    Jul 17, 2001
    The 4 8 0
    Major League Baseball?

    Not so much the military I guess.
     
  3. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess you didn't watch the Padres-Mets game on Saturday

    [​IMG]
     
  4. fiddlestick

    fiddlestick New Member

    Jul 17, 2001
    The 4 8 0
    I was gonna try and work that in, but I was too disgusted by it.
     
  5. YankHibee

    YankHibee Member+

    Mar 28, 2005
    indianapolis
    I'd rather he added another dollar a gallon in taxes and add $1000 per tenth of a litre of engine displacement over 2 on new cars. Currently registered cars should have an additional tax of $20 or so per year based on the same calculation. With that money a real rail system could be funded, along with ethanol/biofuels, as well as other alternative energy sources. That, or we could not invade a country for a while and invest those billions into actually breaking the oil addiction.
     
  6. Foosinho

    Foosinho New Member

    Jan 11, 1999
    New Albany, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What a tremendous void of leadership at the top. Instead of attacking the problem, we still continue to **********foot around - and continue to further harm the environment at the same time.

    Sweet.
     
  7. heybeerman

    heybeerman Member

    Aug 2, 2001
    Chicago Burbs
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    He did this after Katrina too. As long as it's short term I'm ok with it. Wait a minute, this is BushCo, they'll enact this into law shortly.... :p
     
  8. Claymore

    Claymore Member

    Jul 9, 2000
    Montgomery Vlg, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, well...BushCo's idea of long-term planning leaves a bit to be desired...

    [​IMG]
     
  9. -cman-

    -cman- New Member

    Apr 2, 2001
    Clinton, Iowa
    Okay, the market, such as it is, then.

    Interesting study here: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/gas_prices_falling.html

    Main finding: Backs up the old saw that retail prices fall only slowly after withdrawal in peak in oil/wholesale prices as station owners maximize profit taking.

    But here is the kicker:
    And FWIW, I'm a left wing business-type. :D

    Speaking of which, I should go justify my existence to the partners. Later.
     
  10. HerthaBerwyn

    HerthaBerwyn Member+

    May 24, 2003
    Chicago
    Why does the Government buy oil for the stretegic reserve when it is being pumped from Government owned land in the first place?
     
  11. MattR

    MattR Member+

    Jun 14, 2003
    Reston
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]

    Here's the problem folks.

    For about 100 years we've shared oil with Europe, and that's about it. Remember all those Chinese people on bikes? They want a car, now.
    In 2002 demand for cars in China soared by 56%, far more than even the rosiest projections. The next year growth quickened to 75%, before slowing in 2004 (when the government tightened rules on credit for car purchases.

    China is already the third largest car market, and it's growing 50% a year? Couple that with the fact that they have our jobs now, too...

    Oh yeah, there's India, too.
     
  12. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You think that's sustainable
     
  13. MattR

    MattR Member+

    Jun 14, 2003
    Reston
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nope.

    Lower prices is exactly the WORST thing that could happen.

    1) As prices rise, demand for large automobiles dwindles among the industrialized world.

    2) As prices rise, alternative energy sources become competetive

    3) As prices rise, investments in public transportation links become better investments than highways. (I STILL love the arguments I have with people about how trains and buses and subways shouldn't be supported by tax dollars, but highways should).

    4) As prices rise, demand in emerging economies (see: Chinese car drivers) is going to fall.

    So what are we doing? Praying that the price gets lowered so there is more demand and less incentive to change to dilithium crystals.

    The next smartest thing would be to BOMB IRAN!
     
  14. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sorry for the miscommunication. I meant to ask if you think China's position is sustainable. They have a ton of issues to deal with over the next 25 years.
     
  15. -cman-

    -cman- New Member

    Apr 2, 2001
    Clinton, Iowa
    Not that I dispute the general trend... but I have to wonder where whoever built that chart got their numbers? World oil demand is about 80-82 million bbl/day. That chart puts it at 220 now and 336 in 2030, both numbers that will never be seen. Current growth estimates say the best case for production will be about 91 or so by 2010 and after that it straight line for a while before tailing off as the old fields peak.

    But the scale of the demand changes look to be in line with everything I've seen, except I'd maybe quibble with Europe who are doing almost as well as the Japanese at curbing demand growth.
     
  16. -cman-

    -cman- New Member

    Apr 2, 2001
    Clinton, Iowa
  17. Foosinho

    Foosinho New Member

    Jan 11, 1999
    New Albany, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What's really amazing - assuming at least the usage ratios are fairly accurate - is how low Japan's usage is. That's a modern, advanced, industrial society with a little over 40% of the US population, yet only uses 20% as much oil. That's half as much per capita.
     
  18. fiddlestick

    fiddlestick New Member

    Jul 17, 2001
    The 4 8 0
    It's a relatively small geographical area populated extremely densely with well developed mass transit.
     
  19. striker

    striker Member+

    Aug 4, 1999
    and they don't live in McMansions that cost a fortune to heat or cool.
     
  20. fiddlestick

    fiddlestick New Member

    Jul 17, 2001
    The 4 8 0
    No sh!t. Ever see some of those people pods people who don't want to commute home after a long day can rent for an evening? It's like crashing in an MRI machine.
     
  21. -cman-

    -cman- New Member

    Apr 2, 2001
    Clinton, Iowa
    Apparently, getting laid in one is quite a trip, especially if one is of Northern European stature, i.e. 6' 1", 200 lb.
     
  22. fiddlestick

    fiddlestick New Member

    Jul 17, 2001
    The 4 8 0
    Nothing takes the joy out of sex like trying to do it inside a toothpaste tube.
     

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