San Jose Earthquakes Academy is on its way!

Discussion in 'San Jose Earthquakes' started by SCQuakes408, Mar 4, 2010.

  1. run_it_out

    run_it_out Member+

    Earthquakes
    United States
    Jun 19, 2018
    Agreed, but because we are roster constrained, if we want to sign Tan down the road, we might feel we can't sign Verhoeven now.
     
  2. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    Not that hard :).
     
  3. itscalvin

    itscalvin Member

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Mar 31, 2022
    For a continuous USYNT regular, it is usually very advisable that we eventually sign Verhoeven and Mendoza soon unless they really do not show out though I find that unlikely.
     
    xbhaskarx repped this.
  4. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know much about the individual players, but I wouldn't really worry about a U-15 when considering whether to sign guys with the U-17s like Verhoeven and Mendoza... that's the age where you really start to see a separation and certain guys look like professionals.
     
    itscalvin repped this.
  5. Goodsport

    Goodsport Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 18, 1999
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  6. itscalvin

    itscalvin Member

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Mar 31, 2022
    Forgot to mention Fidel Barajas will be playing for the Mexico team in the same tournament. That will be interesting if they face off against each other.
     
    xbhaskarx repped this.
  7. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
    JazzyJ and don gagliardi repped this.
  8. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    Again, I hope we sign Verhoeven and don't suggest he goes to college and he signs with Oakland Roots. That would make me feel a little better about Leitch's "college HG" thing. If it can be a mix - sign the truly oustanding players before they graduate, and mix in some college HG's, I'd feel better about it.
     
    xbhaskarx repped this.
  9. Earthshaker

    Earthshaker BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 12, 2005
    The hills above town
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And think if we ever get our training site built at the fairgrounds, let's maximize the potential!
    Oh, and I happened to go by the FO a couple of days ago. Looks like an academy team? was done training for the day and headed home. They were at least old enough to drive, but, looked too young for Quakes II.
     
    xbhaskarx repped this.
  10. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It already is a mix. Tsakiris and Medina didn't go to college.
     
  11. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    #3261 JazzyJ, Feb 4, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2023
    Yep, obviously. The question is about the balance of the mix. We’ve had 3 or 4 college HG signings and 2 pre-college in the last year or so and meanwhile we’ve lost some top prospects who wanted to go pro to Oakland Roots or other academies.
     
  12. itscalvin

    itscalvin Member

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Mar 31, 2022
    I really want to see how Verhoeven and Mendoza along with other players like Allen, Tan etc. do in Quakes 2. Let's see what they got you never know who will flourish and who won't. There is a lot we can learn in one season like Medina struggling because of size, Viviani showing very well physically, and Niko showing he is a whole nother level above Next Pro.
     
    xbhaskarx, Boysinblue and JazzyJ repped this.
  13. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And yet the Quakes didn't sign Viviani (despite needing a backup left back) and let him go to college instead? < thinking emoji >
     
    itscalvin repped this.
  14. itscalvin

    itscalvin Member

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Mar 31, 2022
    Trust me I was weirded out when he was not signed especially after Lopez was sold. I saw him in Next Pro and wanted us to sign him immediately. Malta/US youth international really showing out. At least he is doing well at SDSU but I could have seen him starting for us by 20 right when we would guess Trauco would start slowing down.
    I guess maybe Leitch's plan was thinking Tingey is done with college so have him in until Viviani is done with college but still would rather have Viviani on loan in USL at least.
     
  15. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    #3265 JazzyJ, Feb 4, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2023
    Yeah, that's another one that's sticking in my craw a bit about this "college homegrown" thing. The few times I saw Viviano play with Quakes II he was a real standout. As I said, I think there's a balance to be struck, and each individual is a different case (and for all we know Viviano wanted to go to college), but I wonder if we're striking the right balance.
     
  16. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member+

    Dec 16, 1999
    Monterey, Ca
    Tristan was “encouraged” to go to college. He and his parents met with Leitch to ask about a homegrown deal. While Viviani is the best left footed outside back, there are multiple other options including Aaron Edwards (played some left back for UCLA this past season) and Benjamin Do (played more minutes at left back at University of Pennsylvania than Viviani this year, higher ranked than SDSU). And of course there is Tingey.
     
    itscalvin and xbhaskarx repped this.
  17. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    #3267 JazzyJ, Feb 4, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2023
    It's the "encouraged to go to college" part that I'm questioning, though it could be the right thing in this case for a number of reasons. I'm just being a sort of devil's advocate for Leitch and his "college homegrown" philosophy or predisposition.

    Tingey is apparently not left-footed, though it's possible that his left foot is decent. Viviano looked really really good in the minutes that I watched him in Quakes II, that's why I was disappointed when he wasn't offered a deal, but there are many factors I'm not aware of. But we should not be aiming for "serviceable", we should be aiming for transcendent. Otherwise we're never going to get out of mediocrity in this league. I think the pre-college guys that really shine in say Quakes II at say 17yo have the chance to be transcendent.

    Also, I think we really need left-footed players right now. We're not even going to have a left-footed LCB that gets starts it looks like, and who's going to play left back (not named Tanner Beason) if Trauco goes down or is not available? I don't really like to see Marie playing on the left. Maybe Tingey could turn out to be serviceable in that role, but then again, will he ever be more than serviceable, as a guy who didn't really even stand out much in college soccer?
     
  18. run_it_out

    run_it_out Member+

    Earthquakes
    United States
    Jun 19, 2018
    https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aH...d=0CBIQz4EHahcKEwjYz5zSlIX9AhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQQw

    Scuffed podcast has an episode with Matt Hartman about the U17 roster. There's a couple of mentions of Earthquakes on other rosters. But the good stuff is about Verhoeven and Medina.

    Verhoeven 31:44 He will play left back. After listening to the discussion, I'm ready to pull out my checkbook and sign him myself. They mention Scally, Dest, and Reynolds all in the same breath. Needs to keep improving defensively, but he's big and athletic and skilled. My man.

    Medina 38:13 Predicted to be an 8. He's the guy on the roster, the one with the highest upside that could have the biggest impact on the national team. They're hoping for a coming out party at the U17 tournament. But there are some worrying comparisons to Fuentes. Can he do it against grownups?

    Mendoza 47:16 He's the backup 6 on the roster. "the dirty work guy". "not a top end athlete or passer"
     
    Boysinblue, xbhaskarx and JazzyJ repped this.
  19. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member+

    Dec 16, 1999
    Monterey, Ca
    I would like to see Verhoeven play on Quakes ii first before signing him. Plenty of guys have looked super when they were able to physically dominate their age group. Not so much when they played against athletes as good as they were. Jacob Akanyinge was a prime example.
     
    Boysinblue and xbhaskarx repped this.
  20. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    #3270 JazzyJ, Feb 8, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2023
    I don't know all the details of the roster rules, but I hope we really levarage Quakes II to find out this kind of stuff, and not just give minutes to random college signings who are never going to be seriously considered for the 1st team. So there are these academy players who you may want to sign and you want to see them against older players, and then there are the college homegrowns like the "....ey" brothers, Cill-ey and Ting-ey. If they are going to ever have an impact on the 1st team they're going to have to show something on Quakes II. Otherwise, they are just more wasted HG signings. And I hope they don't have more than 2 year deals.
     
  21. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member+

    Dec 16, 1999
    Monterey, Ca
    I highly doubt they are on two year deals. This is why the team can’t just sign an unlimited amount of homegrown players. The Quakes (and all other MLS teams) have roster limits. They need to move players out to bring players in. Maybe we will see more Next Pro contracts for academy graduates in the coming years to get around the roster limits but even that has a cap. There has to be some plan, some overlay to move players out so they can continue the development. If you encourage players to go to college you had better have room for them afterwards. Maybe in the future the Quakes don’t bother to sign their draft picks and just trade them away for GAM.
     
  22. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    #3272 JazzyJ, Feb 8, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2023
    Press release says "contracts for the 2023 season with club options through 2026". I suppose that means 3 years, with an option for a 4th? Or does that mean an option every year starting next year? I don't really get it. If these guys don't prove to be anything more than middling players in Quakes II we're stuck with them for at least 3 years? And then possibly can't sign potentially much higher ceiling academy players due to roster limits?

    Why do we give these long HG contracts to these college guys, who aren't really even standout players in college, when we have our pick of 350 of the best players in college across the U.S. and we usually don't even bother to sign them, other than maybe our top pick. Or we let some of our top academy prospects go and they sign with Oakland. I honestly don't get it. Let's assume the "..ey" guys turn out to be kind of Will Richmond players - sort of borderline 1st team players, and that may be their ceiling. What good does it do to burn those HG spots on mediocrity when you can at least take a shot at a player who has a much higher ceiling?

    It's like playing the penny slots vs. the craps table or something. You won't lose much playing penny slots but you won't win much either. The academy system is about winning big and developing transcendent players who will be great for your club and possibly bring in big transfer $. And the worst that can happen is that you burn an HG slot on a player who doesn't pan out. I don't think you win in the HG game in MLS by hitting bunt singles. You win by taking big swings, trying to hit a few home runs, and living with the strikeouts.
     
  23. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member+

    Dec 16, 1999
    Monterey, Ca
    Yeah, I kind of think that there is a “standard homegrown contract” that is 3+1. It’s sort of like rookie QB contracts in the NFL.

    MLS doesn’t want short term deals that expire when players are 18-19 and allow them to move overseas. After the first deal it seems that teams can offer whatever length they want.

    I agree with you on the college vs youth players signings, but the team must have some kind of matrix where they look for “long term” homegrowns like Nick Lima for roster stability and “high reward” signings like Cade Cowell to develop for profit.

    In my opinion signing Richmond, Tingey and Cilley is basically like signing 2nd round draft picks (except for longer term). Since these guys are all from Stanford so far I’m guessing Leitch likes Jeremy Gunn’s methodology.
     
  24. run_it_out

    run_it_out Member+

    Earthquakes
    United States
    Jun 19, 2018
    I thought a common HG contract was 2+3, or used to be at least. That's why a number of the better players understandably started turning it down and just waited until they turned 18 or going to USL. Anyway, wouldn't surprise me if those e guys were signed to a deal with three option years.
     
  25. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    The 3+1 deal makes sense for the teen signings. For college HG’s, not so much. We’ll see how it turns out. To be fair I haven’t seen either Cilley or Tingey play a single minute yet. But if we have lots of great prospects coming up in the academy and we can’t sign some of them due to running out of spots, and these 2 guys are around for 3 years not contributing to the 1st team in any meaningful way, I think that’s a miss.
     

Share This Page