To catch everyone up on the last thread... "Only 3500?!?!? Seattle's putting them to shame!" -Some dude "shut up man!, it's only fair to compare us to KC and Colorado because we're not really a new team, we an old new team...and it's still AEG's fault!!!" -some Quakes fan (You may now avoid reading past thread)
I think the thread was closed for a reason. Every possible point that can be made was made dozens of times. The whole idea of this type of thread is lame unless there is one for every team.
Is it time to recycle my attendance prediction yet? I agree that the old thread had been beaten to death, but I don't think this type of thread is necessarily lame to begin with, in the context of N&A. It's of some interest generally to see how new or re-entered markets are responding to their MLS franchise.
Here's a recycled attendance prediction ... with some additions. Last time we had a team we averaged 13, 037 and we thought that was good. What's different now... What's better this time ================ -A committed owner that will and is doing a much better job of promoting the team. -The B&B effect (Blanco & Beckham) What's worse this time ================ -Ticket prices have doubled. -We had the leagues best team in '05 probably the leagues worst in '08. -Our temporary stadium situation is arguably the worst in the history of the MLS. -Stadium capacity of 11K for 13 out of 17 games. -Majority of the bathrooms will be porta potties -4 games will be played in a baseball stadium -AEG isn't threating to move the team if we don't buy season tickets -AYSO can't save our attendance late in the season because you can't give away $35 tickets to little kids. -Ticket prices have doubled. Additional Observations ================== In 2007, from mid August through the end of baseball season, all weekends were booked at the Coliseum - either for Raiders football on Sunday or A's baseball Sat/Sun. Will our late season big games, where we've traditionally drawn our biggest crowds, be forced to mid week? In 2005 6 of our games drew under 10k and 2 drew under 9K. The home opener is a day game - We'll have attendance challenges.
I don't know know what the case was for Naperville and Dragon Stadium, and now for the Ball Park in KC, perhaps others could add to this discussion. Would it really be the worst situation regarding location and amenities?
I honestly think Dragon stadium and the ball park in KC are worse situations. Saying ours is the worst is ignoring the fact it is actually an improvement in several ways over our old stadium at Spartan.
Well, Dragon Stadium was sort of a mixed bag as far as fan amenities were concerned. On the upside, it's a fairly recently built stadium, so things weren't so bad in the sideline stands. On the downside, there were no alcohol sales and if you were in the bleachers that HSG built in one end, you had the pleasure of using portapotties and getting your food from a trailer.
I couldn't disagree more with several of your points. First, the facility at Buck Shaw is not as bad as you make it sound- having attended many games there while a student at Santa Clara, I realize the value of a small, intimate stadium with good atmosphere. And there are more bars/pubs in walking distance of Buck Shaw than there ever were at Spartan. Transportation is also much better at SCU. Some of the stadium situations that have been worse than Buck Shaw: The Wizards drawing less than 10k at cavernous 80k-seat Arrowhead, The Wizards at 12,000 seat Community America Ballpark (a BSS-Baseball Specific Stadium), Columbus Crew in 102k-seat Ohio Stadium in the early days, and arguably, Dallas playing in Southlake Carroll's 11k Dragon Stadium. Lockhart was never good for the Fusion, but that wasn't really Lockhart's fault. Second, there will not likely be ANY portapotties...they will have temporary restrooms, much like San Jose International Airport has- if you've ever been in one of those "temporary restrooms", they are actually a trailer with stalls, urinals, and sinks, all with running water. It is a far cry from a portapotty- its much more like a real restroom. Third, the games which will be played at "a baseball stadium". Yes, the big games will be played at McAfee Coliseum, where the Oakland Raiders also play. How is this any different than teams who play games in American football stadiums, ie Gillette Stadium for the Revs, RFK for United, Robeson for Dynamo, etc? These are for the Beckham/Blanco games, which will probably have a good chance of selling out McAfee. It is a good thing for the club to make some money in the larger venue. As a fan, the atmosphere should be pretty good there too- it has been great for many of the international games/ friendlies that have been played there in the past. Look, I'm not saying Buck Shaw will be perfect- but I think it will be an outstanding atmosphere for watching a soccer game, and Santa Clara University has one of the most beautiful college campuses in the United States. You don't give it nearly enough credit. Just wait- when the games start up, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Looking forward to seeing SJE play in the spruced up stadium. 3500 so far in a stadium that'll hold around 11,000? Sounds good to me. I'm sure that number will rise during a big push in the next two months. 6000 at the end, perhaps? I don't think anyone has any reason to mock San Jose or question the viability of a market there.
Man, I hope you guys are right. I wasn't so sure about returning to San Jose when it happened, and I'm even less sure now. Tell me, what's the progress on your own stadium looking like? I, personally, think that for San Jose fans this was a mistake to expand here. It should have waited until a solid plan was in place and approval for a stadium given - yes, I know how hard it is to get stadium approval without a team guaranteed... *coughing* St. Louis *coughing* Philadelphia *coughing* I could be proven wrong, but let's face it... if Lew Wolff isn't successful in getting a new stadium and the attendance is poor and the team moves... what are the chances of San Jose ever getting another chance at having an MLS team? I don't think very good. I think it was a bad gamble to expand without a stadium plan. If all of what fans say is true, San Jose could be a good market. But, with the odds stacked against it like this, it doesn't seem like San Jose is being given a fair shot at proving themselves. But, then again, this is coming from an MLS fan who thought San Jose attendance was really bad and should have been cut loose, if any team, at the time.
What about the 8 teams that had worse attendance for standalone games in 2005? Meet the new thread, same as the old thread.
Of all the temporary stadium situations in MLS's history, Buck Shaw will be the best by far. Granted we haven't seen any games yet, but I get the feeling it will be okay from the photos I've seen of the place. At least it is somewhat tailored to soccer as SCU plays there. No place will ever be worse than Dragon Stadium. Fake turf, bright endzone paint with HS's name, no alcohol, hell hole location. Talk about a humiliating experience. 1-Buck Shaw 2-Community America Ballpark 3-Naperville 4-Dragon Stadium
Progress is that it's looking good. The land conversion and sale of the stadium land to Lew should be happening by June 30th. No real opposition has cropped up, and it looks like there's little that will at this point. As for your other points, luckily MLS, Lew Wolff, and the San Jose fan base disagrees with you
Cool! Let's discuss. BS is in a better area with places to eat and drink and the transit center is across the street! Watch out for Caltrain though - northbound leaves at 9:05, think you can make it? If Arrowhead, Ohio Stadium or Lockhart were in the southbay and available they'd be our temp home. Arrowhead is a professional stadium with real bathrooms, concessions and seats. Ohio is considered by many to be the best college football stadium in the country. Too big? yes, but they aren't 3rd rate. Lockhart maybe represents best case for what the stadium at BS could turn out to be. Dragon might be the worst, but it looks like it had some facilities. Because those are football stadiums. We'll be playing in a baseball configured McAfee. It will suck. We should be playing in this, the football config: Instead we're playing in this: See the difference? It sucks watching soccer in a MLB stadium - it just shouldn't be done. It's gone down hill? Last I heard it was world class. The campus is nice, but one of the most beautiful college campuses in the US? I'm not worried about myself. I think I'll like BS. But I suspect others will find it significantly inferior to all other bayarea professional sports venues and that dissatisfaction will impact ticket sales.
Honestly though I'm not sure they have. We've not heard if they've finished going through the deposits yet. And many fans are still waiting for partial season ticket packages to come out.
Couldn't agree more, yet I can't stay away. And there should be- in fact, every team should have their own forum. People could use it to post their teams 'X seasons tickets sold' thread right inside.