not to start a firestorm here, but i was looking at the two sites and trying to figure out, what is the real difference in joining one versus the other?
Right now, Sam's Army isn't doing anything and American Outlaws is active. Sam's Army has the history and name recognition. Sam's Army is owned and run by one person on the east coast. American Outlaws is run by a group of people in the midwest that wants as many people as possible to help run the show.
Our objective as supporters is to support and help grow this sport in our country. We dont have the numbers or dedicated fan base to start wars between ourselves. Theres no reason why we both cant exist and work together. As for myself, I can tell you that I was a member of SA for a few years and was amazed and pleased to see such dedication and organization. Unfortunately, those things that were once there in my opinion began to fade. Almost to the point of real concern wether or not we would even have our known supporters group anymore. Amazingly, just when things felt as if things were crumbling I meet AO. To put it simply, I found in them organization, passion and dedication. Everything that I was looking for again. MOST IMPORTANTLY, I know the type of supporter I am. I know that this love that I have for the game is almost undescribable. I dont want to be seen as just a fan but yet a fanatic. AO..." The Next Generation of US Soccer Fans". I know this is what we need to change things here for growth of the sport. I believe I have found a leader to help make that happen. I just want to support my boys to the full extent. I want to jump, dance , sing, cry , yell and celebrate with fellow fans through the good and bad. I want our team and country to know that we are on the rise and growing rapidly. I want to be heard. I want to be seen. I want to make a lasting impact. I personally have made the decision to work with AO to make this happen. All in all , find your place and make a difference!
My thought is, join both. I did. From where I stand, I don't see that the groups market to different demographics (families or young adults ... east coast or west coast ... whatever). I also don't see anything like a fundamental difference in what the groups want. If I understand correctly, there is some drama at the national level between the organizations. I don't know what that drama "looks like" or who started it or who has the problem or both ... and frankly, I don't care. At the local level, at least where I live, the unity of purpose and the leaders are able to work together and share ideas/purpose/passion despite that "drama" ... although they have to be aware of it. This presents a little bit of a problem and makes accomplishing the purpose a little more difficult. But hey, if the national leaders of one group or the other or both are ready to hurt USMNT support over a pissing contest, I say "knock yourselves out." Literally. Get out of the way of those who want to be led and organized into something special. Ideally, I'd like both groups to merge or to at least serve different demographic groups. But oh well. <sigh> Still, join both. It's not expensive and you get on both SG lists for tickets and info and events and stuff. If one suits you better in the end, follow it and stay arm-in-arm with the other group ... we all want the same thing in the end.
I don't know what the purpose for this thread is. Not sure about the "drama" that one is referencing. In Tennessee for the Pre-Olympic tournament, I found out what I needed to know. In particular, the drummer from St Louis said what was appropriate when it came to songs in the USA section that weekend. Feel free to ask him. In addition, some should modify your tone a bit when saying "[insert gourp here] isn't doing anything." Other than that, I'll see a bunch of you at Columbus and the Azteca, in addition to some of the other home qualifiers. If some wanna have a pissing contest, feel free. It doesn't matter, cuz it has absolutely NOTHING to do with GameDay. Just don't throw crap on the field like one kid did in Nashville. Poor form.
My personal experience is that Sams Army seems more diversed, which is what I like. Plus I have kids and Sams Army usually treat us well. Language/chants at times are R-rated, but hey it's a soccer game, and as long as there is no physical violence.
The ONLY real difference i see between them is the way they are organized. One is a centralized group that uses MLS supporters clubs as regional reps for matches at home and tends to be more closed off in the power spheres. The other is more of a charter system from mostly non-MLS cities that runs like city states with each city state autonomus from the other but operating under the same guidlines. Each has its advantages and disadvantages. Some say SA should be better organized and have more delegation of powers. Some say AO is too fractured to run as a large mobile unit an a central authority for large events. Probably a little truth to both. But i have noticed no fundemental differences in what their goals are with respect to the atmosphere at games or general support if the team. Most the time in a USA section you have no idea who's who they blend in so much. In a lot of ways both groups could learn a lot from the other.
the purpose of this thread was me finding out about the two organizations so i can make an informed decision which i should join and to whom i pay my money. also, perhaps it can allow others who are wondering the same thing access to some information so they can make the same decision.
I just recently heard of AO. I'd go with Sam's Army as it always gets public exposure and seems more "official". If AO would get on that level then maybe I'd go with them, but I really have little to no clue about them.
In times like this i just ask myself, what group would the Screaming Eagles join...then I choose the other one.
What is wrong with you people? A relative newcomer asks an innocent question, and even attempted to disclose his lack of knowledge so as to prevent this thread from devolving into a "turf war", and yet another thread ends up serving no purpose. Unlike many others, this forum has generally been a place where people have shared information. That's right, it has been useful. If you have nothing to contribute other than making stupid, snide comments, please go back to the forums and/or other message boards that you normally post your garbage on and leave this forum as a place where fans can exchange information.
From my experiences thus far, I have been with Sam's Army as that is the group that organized a section at those games and the group I travel with have been long time Sam's Army members. However, when I made the trip down to Nashville for Olympic Qualifying, I met a few guys that were members of American Outlaws (AO). I liked those that I met and we shared a similar drive/ability to sing/chant songs and support the US. My suggestion is to find a group of people close to where you live and support the US with them. In the end, when there are games, people travel to the same spot and people sing in the same section. How people connect and get together outside of those 90 minutes in a stadium I suppose is the difference between the two groups. I don't believe you actually have to be a "member" of either. Each I'm sure has perks to their membership, but you can easily just as go to any US game and meetup with whomever you want without being a member of AO or SA.
Most of those guys to best of my knowledge are not members of SA, or any group in particular. But of all intents and purposes they are since SA has been the only real organized USA supporters guild for quite some time. Yeah, in fact if they never announced themselves as such you wouldn't be able to tell them apart. Probably the best advice, it is always more rewarding to be a part of a group of other fans in your local, makes trips funner and easier. I don't know, i still think its an organizational thing. I mean lets be truthful here, SA the past couple years post WC has been a ship without a captian running on cruise control. IMO they need a massive overhaul in their organization and how they go about their business, hopefully it is something being worked on with new leadership. And in many ways the AO was started to fill that vacum. That is sort of the rub though, if there is no incentive to be a SA or AO memeber then why sign up? Building a strong organized national USMNT fanbase requires high levels of communication and interaction, lists, and incentives to pull the group together. For example, for those that pay dues, what exactly is that money being used on? What is the heirachy of leadership? What group efforts and plans are in place to promote and expand the supporters fanbase? How is the club actually being run? Do those in charge have the time and dedication needed to effectivly run it? All i know about AO is that they have the same concerns and were started in non-MLS cities because no one was reaching them and where responding to what the percieved to be as a lack of action on the part of SA and its leadership. I don't seen any fundemental difference in terms of how they support, just on how they are organized. So there is my second serious response, to go with my one tounge in cheek shot.
I personally have no kids, but I probably wouldn't bring any hypothetical kids into the supporter's section. First of all, they probably couldn't see since everyone's standing. I'm not against it or anything, but I just wouldn't want to have to tone down language anything because kids are nearby.
SA has lost its luster and to me has lost their passion. They aren't nearly as organized as they use to be, you get nothing for their membership, and their website is atrocious. I recently found the AO, signed up, got some swag (including a sweet t-shirt) and receive email updates. So far dealing with them I felt they care a lot about US Soccer and supporting the US. They are making a point to keep everyone organized and informed. I respect that and will back them, and I'm hoping to hope them in the Boston area. Join what you will, but that's my personal opinion on the two groups.
I'm with AO, there will be quite a few of us at the upcoming games at Wembley, Giants Stadium, and the WCQ game in California. We have some cheeper tickets for sale on our website still, http://www.theamericanoutlaws.com/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,28/
In the end I think it's important for everyone to remember we will all be in the same section, singing the same songs for 90 minutes as loud as we can. That's what is important here. As I said before, the best thing you can do is hookup with a group of fans in relative close proximity geographically to you so you can meet up for game viewings, travel together, etc. It just makes your entire experience that much more enjoyable.
I have kids and there is no place in the stadium I'd rather take them (currently age 5 and 9 mos). -They understand that "stadium language" will be heard and that they shouldn't use it outside the game. My wife was told a story about a dad and son in Portland. When the opponent's GK takes the goal kick, the fans do the "You suck a$$hole" chant. The kid later asked his dad why everyone was saying "Your socks have holes". It's amazing what kind of filter kids can have. -Where else in the stadium can they scream, yell and jump around and not piss off the person next to you? In fact it's encouraged. -Where else can you teach them the true passion of the game? It's really hard to do when you are expected to sit down and just watch. -It is also a great way to teach your kids to be assertive in a public place. Our daughter lead a cheer of "Everywhere you go" on a train full of fans in Germany and still talks about it. -Now would we take the kids to Azteca Stadium for a qualifier, probably not. -You also get to teach them lifelong lessons like how to throw streamers (toiler paper is a good carry over for other endeavors), meet new people and most of all how to just forget what you look and sound like and have a good time.
This is Brunken one of the founders of American Outlaws. We just exist to fill a void we saw, we exist to unite and strengthen US fans, something we really didn't see happening as much as we wanted. We see this as integral to our team and foundations success and for our experience as fans. We would love to work with any one that will further this. Join what ever group you like, we will continue to try and unite US fans through whatever ways we can, especially through game day events, either uniting fans before, during and after games, and even uniting fans through viewing parties around the country. Our chapter system helps unite better, since we can't be everywhere all the time. I would say joining both or at least join one, and also join your local mls supporters groups, because the money for memberships, merchandise, and tickets, doesn't go into our pockets, it goes into just sustaining what we have. Without memberships, this stuff doesn't exist and we can't do the things that you want done. We spend our own money for this cause, what ever supporters group you are involved with, it is the same way. So, lets just unite US fans, however you see is the best way. We will continue to do what we can do. Much Respect, Brunken The American Outlaws jbrunken@theamericanoutlaws.com www.theamericanoutlaws.com