SAF: van Der Sar is the new Schmeichel

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by Bigrose30, Jul 12, 2005.

  1. Bigrose30

    Bigrose30 Member+

    Sep 11, 2004
    Jersey City, NJ
    http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/3755532

    Fight as hard as you can for that first spot Tim Howard, but you won't get it back.

    You don't get voted EPL's best goalkeeper without having the ability to play at the highest level. You should be starting somewhere, anywhere...not in two years...but right now.

    Take my advice Tim, you need to get away from the media circus that is Man U and move to another high-level club where you'll be first choice but won't have the constant threat of being benched after one gaff hung over your head.

    This is my advice to Tim. Reasonable? I think so.
     
  2. adeav7777

    adeav7777 Member

    Dec 20, 2004
    Manchester, UK
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They say this with every new United keeper.

    and it's getting a bit old now...
     
  3. Metrogo

    Metrogo Member

    Apr 6, 1999
    Washington Hghts NY
    Well Bigrose, this is not new news. But, absent a loan deal, and absent an injury to van der sar, I don't see Tim being ok with this come january. He's young, but he's not THAT young. He won't want to sit for 2 years.
     
  4. Deuteriumoxide

    May 27, 2003
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Van Der Saar is old. Timmy is just one worn out knee away from starting.
     
  5. Bigrose30

    Bigrose30 Member+

    Sep 11, 2004
    Jersey City, NJ
    I know it's old news, but SAF saying that van der Sar is the new Schmeichel certainly is...

    I just have a lingering bitter feeling that SAF should show more respect to Tim Howard than he has. Tim was tops in the EPL...then he makes a mistake or two and gets the hook.

    And there's all this talk about the huge goalkeeping void United has...they had NINE 0-0 draws last season.

    NINE.

    And the biggest signing they made was a goalkeeper. And he's touted as the next Schmeichel.

    If he would back Howard as his horse through thick or thin, he could easily be the next Schmeichel.

    I'm just pretty bitter about this for some reason...Tim is an top-class keeper, and deserves to be first choice someplace where he'll be appreciated.
     
  6. Metrogo

    Metrogo Member

    Apr 6, 1999
    Washington Hghts NY
    He's old, but he's not THAT old. But you're right, that is timmy's best hope at this point.
     
  7. Deuteriumoxide

    May 27, 2003
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    good post. United just aren't that great anymore.

    Maybe Van Der Saar can score from goal kicks.
     
  8. Metrogo

    Metrogo Member

    Apr 6, 1999
    Washington Hghts NY

    Dude, Tim had a bad year,just deal with it. He had a very good spell for United, but he certainly hasn't proven himself as a "top-class" keeper yet. Same when he was with the MEtros, he was very good sometimes, but sometimes pretty poor. He kind of sucked for the metros the year he went to United.

    I'm rooting for him, truly. But he simply can't be compared to Schmeikel. Fergy's got nothing against him. It's Tim's play.
     
  9. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

    Dec 15, 1999
    Campania
    Van der Saar is hardly old by goalkeeping standards. He's younger than Keller, in fact.

    But it's true that Timmy will have to wait for an injury. Or a total meltdown in form.
     
  10. Bigrose30

    Bigrose30 Member+

    Sep 11, 2004
    Jersey City, NJ

    I would admit that Tim had a bad year. If Tim got to play the whole year. He got yanked for Roy Carroll (who had a mucher longer hook than Howard IMO) pretty early.

    I think we can all agree that GK is a position that revolves heavily around confidence. If you know your manager has your back and won't give you the hook at every mistake, it makes you a better keeper, a more confident keeper...able to deal with the game better.

    Imagine you are Tim Howard. You just sat for months for your last mistake (I'm sure it was more than that, but it certainly appeared to be reactionary). You're back in the first team against powerhouse Chelsea. Here comes a wicked free kick in to the box from Frank Lampard.

    Are you going to deal with it confidently...or are you going to second guess yourself...hesistate...one bad bounce later and you're back on the bench.

    I understand that Man U is a media pressure cooker, and SAF is under enormous pressure for results. But a manager HAS to back his keeper. The keeper(s) shouldn't be the goat for season riddled with missed scoring opportunities.

    IMO, the sooner you get out, the better Tim. However, I see where others are coming from. I just feel strongly about this, as is evident.
     
  11. El Steve

    El Steve Member

    Sep 7, 2004
    Pittsburgh
    Club:
    Pittsburgh Riverhounds
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah... when you put this whole situation in perspective it is pretty screwy. I've avoided the whole Tim Howard discussion for the most part...

    ...but Bigrose is right... two years ago he was the tops in the EPL... now he's an assured back up and, because of this, falling out of the USA's plans at the moment.

    Timmy Howard needs, and deserves, to play... somewhere... anywhere... next season. You see Cristiano Ronaldo making boneheaded plays every game... but why does he stay in?

    Because he has talent... everyone recognizes that... and you're not going to see the full of that talent emerge unless he gets a good bulk of first team minutes.

    Everyone is in agreement that Tim Howard has the physical tools and potential to be a GREAT goalkeeper... but, as with goalies, he's still improving and maturing at an older age... he STILL needs those minutes.

    Just thinking from a Man Utd standpoint... even if they're not going to give him those minutes with their first team... a loan with a recall option is the best decision for his, and their, future... keeping him in Man Utd and basically assuring VDS the starting spot isn't very constructive.
     
  12. Bigrose30

    Bigrose30 Member+

    Sep 11, 2004
    Jersey City, NJ

    I think a loan would be a great thing for Tim...however, as other poster's mentioned, Tim is just one injury away from being a starter again. Which means SAF probably won't loan him...especially not to a Premier League rival. Which means Tim will be stuck as a backup, and probably miss out on the WC again.
     
  13. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    He got yanked because of a sequence of blunders; it was hardly one error. And he got a chance later in the season and failed to take it. Bottom line is that neither Howard nor Carroll performed well enough to continue to be first choice. Carroll was dumped, whilst SAF recognized Howard's undoubted potential by awarding him with a new contract. And they brought in a seasoned veteran to be first choice. I just don't seen what's controversial about this.
     
  14. Bigrose30

    Bigrose30 Member+

    Sep 11, 2004
    Jersey City, NJ

    It's no controversy, just my opinion. I think Howard is good enough to start at Man U. I think if SAF said, "Tim, you're my guy and I'm sticking with you," Tim would respond with another season like his first at Man U, and many others after that.

    Obviously, not everyone agrees with this, and that's the whole point of this thread...to see what other people's thoughts are on this.

    I will concede that it is positive that Man U extended his deal. But to me, Tim Howard does not need two years as an understudy. He should be starting someplace immediately with full support.

    That's my opinion...I'd love to hear others.
     
  15. flux82

    flux82 Member

    Aug 9, 2001
    Mississippi
    I think Tim should be looking to transfer out, if that is a possibilty. I know this may sound like defeatism, but I want him playing SOMEWHERE; it does not particulary help anything if you are at one of the biggest clubs in the world, but riding the pine. Being pushed by competition is one thing; being on such a short leash to where you are yanked after a couple of bad games does not seem very positive to me.
     
  16. Metrogo

    Metrogo Member

    Apr 6, 1999
    Washington Hghts NY
    In the end, Roy Carroll may have come out better in this than Howard.
     
  17. tubby_butter

    tubby_butter Member

    Mar 22, 2002
    Providence
    Last year, Tim didn't show that he is good enough to start at ManU. He obviously can't rely on just athleticism any more, so he takes a step back, becomes technically sound, and becomes a better keeper from it all.

    This year's situation is better than the last from 2 perspectives.

    1. Public Opinion - at best, he was seen as the lesser of two evils - at worst, a blunder waiting to happen. This year, he is just the backup. The underdog. The pressure is on VdS, so hopefully Tim can just get down to business.

    2. Being a backup - at least he's backing up an accomplished and veteran keeper, one he can learn from. If he wins the job back, it will be because he's friggin awesome, not because Carrol sucks worse.
     
  18. Alex_1

    Alex_1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 29, 2002
    Zürich
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    IMO if Manchester are serious about him developing, they would have Howard 'learn' from Van Der Sar but they would also loan him out, at the very least, one half of this season. It will do the player little good sitting the bench when he can be hopefully getting positive experience someplace else.

    From the day Howard re-signed, I had a feeling that they were going to try to loan him out, and I still think that's a very high possibility. Howard probably won't comment much on it, which is wise, but he probably wouldn't mind a change of scenery himself since I can imagine him being disillusioned after the high and low of the season and the one before it.

    As for the whole "Schmeichel" talk, I too am sick of it, and wish it would just die. I feel as if it could be 2020, and they would still be talking about United's failure to find "the next schmeichel". It's like a bad cliche right now.
     
  19. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Over an hour!!! You're getting slow in your old age. :D

    We've had this discussion a few times before. All's I'll say is, I think the problem most likely is ManU's handling of GKs, not Carroll or Howard (or Barthez or Taibbi or....) Howard made some mistakes, yes, but a manager not on the cusp of retiring would likely be thinking long term and give Howard a real chance to lockdown the #1 slot. Hell, with the lineup ManU's gonna trot out there next year, they're rebuilding anyway. They're just too arrogant to admit it, that they need to take one step backward in order to take two steps forward and challenge Chelsea and Arsenal.
     
  20. Bigrose30

    Bigrose30 Member+

    Sep 11, 2004
    Jersey City, NJ
    That's scampish!
     
  21. Teso Dos Bichos

    Teso Dos Bichos Red Card

    Sep 2, 2004
    Purged by RvN
    Finally, a sensible post on the subject!
     
  22. Bigrose30

    Bigrose30 Member+

    Sep 11, 2004
    Jersey City, NJ
    I feel my opinion on Tim Howard's ability and the repercussions of the quick hook to a goalkeeper's performace is quite sensible. I am interested to know why this isn't sensible.

    I certainly see how one can disagree.
     
  23. Tigerpunk

    Tigerpunk Member

    Jun 17, 2004
    Well, there's nothing controversial in my mind about Van der Saar coming in for Howard in my mind. Calling him the next Schmeichel and expecting him to be the difference in CL and Premiership quality (with an aging leadership), on the other hand, borders on the rediculous. I know there's the theory out there by the Man U faithful that with a "better" goalkeeper you can open up the attack, but its at best a hard sell that your goalscoring problems were ALSO Howard's fault.
     
  24. Motterman

    Motterman Member

    Jul 8, 2002
    Orlando, FL
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Giving up 1 goal at home in a home-and-away due to a blunder can knock you out, considering you have to score 2 or more goals just to make it up. If Milan wins 1 game 1-0 and the next game draws 0-0, you can't say that their attack sucks, because they've gone through to the final and that's the achievement that matters the most.... Giving up a goal at the wrong moment for the wrong reason can have a bad psychological effect of any team. I'm not saying that Van Der Saar is the 2nd coming of Schmeichel (I don't blame Fergie for talking up one of his main signings of the summer, that's what managers do, btw) but a more experienced and vocal presence in the back can have a calming effect on the team. I know if I was a defender that I'd be a bit more relaxed knowing that "Mr. Dependable" is behind me if I make a mistake, rather than "Butterfinger Carroll".

    Timmy can grow into being "Mr. Dependable and Mr. Spectacular", but Manchester United needs "Mr. Dependable" right now so it's Van Der Saar's spot at the moment....

    In Schmeichel's later years with the club, you frequently saw Van Der Gouw get some games in order to provide the older keeper with the rest he needs to stay fresh. Tim will still see some playing time, don't worry about that.
     
  25. Yank22

    Yank22 Member

    Jan 7, 2005
    NYC

Share This Page