Link Nice logic. Preki: Hey Viagra, I don't really like Guevara and don't feel like coaching him. Viagra: Trade him, he'll lose his lot, go back to Honduras and we'll petition the league for a DP slot because it didn't work out for us. Preki: That's a great idea. That would give the league 14 DP slots instead of 13! Here come the Cosmos! Hey Chivas. You made a mistake, live with it.
That would be ridiculous if they are just "given" a DP slot back. They have to trade for it, just like we did.
I have to agree, because if Chivas or LA or whatever could just circumvent the rules then there is no point having the rules. Chivas made a bad decision and forced Amado to want to leave, they should get rather large allocation for losing Amado to Honduras if he goes there. I think after this season MLS can revaulate whether additional DP's can be issued, but for this season no.
Personally I wouldn't mind it. I know Chivas screwed up and the league should not bail them out of it. However, I really don't think we're in a position to punish teams right now. I think the league needs to do it's best to help prop up everyone. We are still in a state of growing. We don't have guaranteed fans. I'd really hate to see the franchise get deep into a hole. Allowing them to use a DP on a big name Mexican star would not only help them, it would help the rest of the league whenever they had road games.
You didn't exactly present the legal ramifications in the failed deal w/ Guevara. from the article I personally think that Chivas shouldn't be reinstated a DP, BUT... this is a valid point.
this is all Bob Bradley, Sunil Gulati or Bruce Arena's fault. i know it is. Chivas USA doesn't deserve a replacement DP slot since Guevara is gone. yet i still think Preki could get his team to the 2007 playoffs without Guevara or a new DP slot. it obviously is a tough situation for Chivas, but losing Bradley and Guevara and the DP slot is something they were unlucky to get into, but still something they are ultimately responsible for. a bail-out (in the form of a new DP) from the league should not occur.
I agree it would not be a good idea to give Chivas another DP spot. I liken it to a situation where a team makes a trade for a player who, after arriving, decides to retire. In that situation the league has essentially said, hey, that's tough luck. Also similar would be if Guevara got a serious injury: again, tough luck. How do they handle similar situations where an allocation player walks out on his contract? Does the team get an allocation when he leaves? It seems like Chivas at least ought to be entitled to some sort of compensation when somebody in Honduras or somewhere buys out Guevara's MLS contract (at a heavy discount) so he can play elsewhere. But I'm assuming that would be handled the same as any other transfer fee.
If giving Chivas their DP slot back means that they might be able to sign Zidane I might have to think twice about this deal. Obviously in principle though, I disagree and don't want anymore than 13 DP's, but Zidane in LA is tempting.
i believe i did. SA is throwing all facts, regardless of timeline, into a bowl. Had Guevara refused to play for Chivas when they agreed to the trade for the DP slot, then yes, you would be right. But he did show up, play and even gloat at how happy he was before Chivas decided to trade him for a draft pick and Nagamura. So to Chivas, they decided that rather then deal with the honduran madman, they would trade him to toronto. had this deal gone through, they would've esentially received a draft pick and nagamura for their DP slot. lets say you have 4 years of college tuition saved up for your kid, an you decide to use it all and buy speculative stock because you really believe that by doing this, you'll not only pay for the full tuition, but also law school. The stock plumets and can now only pay for 1 year. Would it make sense to go to a college and ask for 3 years free tuition because you were a jack ass (goat)?
Exactly. I would have more sympathy towards giving Chivas a DP slot if Guevara had a career-ending injury happen during training camp. But he has actually played this season. The fact of the matter is that the deal was made while Bradley was the coach, and now he's not there anymore. It's clear that Preki doesn't want anything to do with Guevara, and has tried to unload him. And now, Guevara just wants out of MLS. It's become a bad situation, but you can't nix a trade just because things didn't work out for one party after the fact. You nix a trade if it's discovered that one side or the other was not dealing on the up and up. I think what this will do is make teams more hesitant to want to trade their DP slot.
Buyer beware, man. Chivas USA knew what they were trading for when they pulled the trigger on Guevara. It's no secret that besides being very talented, he's hot-headed, pouty, has poor practice habits and sometimes disappears in games. They knew the risk. They took the risk. It backfired. They have to deal with the ramifications. It starts a bad precedent if MLS starts bailing out a team after every bad trade. DCU traded the draft pick used to get Brian Ching for Devin Barclay. Ching blossomed into an MVP-candidate; Barclay washed out of MLS. Should DCU be awarded a quality target forward to make up for their poor decision making? The decisions you make about acquiring personel are part of the competition that goes into being in team sports. Some teams draft better than others. Some teams have better luck with trades and some are more adept at bringing in internationals. But that's all part of the process. But a team shouldn't get bailed out by MLS because they made a crappy decision that backfired on them.
Chivas is going to get an allocation for Guevara when they sell him to whatever team is stupid enough to take him, If Chivas wants a DP slot they can trade that allocation + players/picks whatever to get a DP slot.
I love how some people are intimating that Chivas will get around the rules here. Just like they have that all Mexican team, right?
They should just follow the rules: Transfer Guevara to Hondouras and the league can award a major allocation, which Guevara is certainly worth based on prior precident. They can use the Major Allcation as trade bait for a DP slot or as a means of signing a really good player to take his spot. Awarding a DP is wrong, because the league allowed only so mnay this year. Now if in the offseason the owners want to ammed the DP rule and conditionally let more of those spots in the league fine. But for 2007 Chivas is just gonna have to play the hand they are dealt.
Exactly. I'm sure the Titans would love Pacman Jones back but every club in any sport has to know how it's lunatic players are going to react. Sorry Chivas, maybe next year. I mean, they shouldn't worry anyway. What will happen is that CD Guadalajara will sign whomever LA Goats want, arrange some sort of loan deal in which LA Goats give him a large spot on their salary cap and then the mother ship pays the larger bill. The circumvention of MLS rules is really a lot easier than most of us think about. I'm sure it's what Kroenke and Red Bull plan on doing with their teams as well.
Waaaaait just one minute. The "transaction" that Amado "voided" was the one that would have sent him to Toronto. It was NOT the transaction that brought him TO Chivas from NY. THAT transaction is in no way voided or rendered null by Amado's refusal to go to Toronto. So, its very far from a valid point.
oh oh oh it's maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggic...you knowwwwwwwwww... I had a feeling somehow someway, someone would find a way to give Chivas another DP.
The league has a quasi-precedent of sorts: when Colorado signed Frenchman and former Arsenal player Gilles Grimandi, he showed up, practiced some and then decided to go home. My understanding is that he was granted his release from MLS and Colorado was given another allocation. Here's the best rationale for giving a DP back to Chivas: if you look at the rationale for the DP slot in the first place, it was to acquire players who would boost the level of play in the league but most of all, sell tickets by bringing in a player with a big name or visibility. And Chivas is one of those teams most likely to use the DP slot on a player of that caliber (I'm guessing, probably a Mexican player. I can just see Vergera scheming like crazy to buy a really big-name Mexican player--but buy him from a Chivas-Guadalajara competitor, say like signing Guardado) so he manages to strengthen Chivas USA and weaken a competitor that Chivas-Guadalajara faces. If you buy the rationale that the best reason for the DP slot is the "big name player" acquisition, than giving a DP to Chivas makes sense. They'd likely bring in someone like a Blanco (ie: Mexican with rep) rather than a guy who makes their team better but won't increase attendance that much. FWIW, after Guevara said he wasn't going to TFC, other teams expressed some interest (FCD, Columbus and Colorado) and Guevara refused to go to any of them as well. So he has effectively refused to play in MLS. And if you give a DP slot to Chivas, it creates all sorts of issues. It creates the encentive for LAG to simply ask for one for Landon rather than have to trade for one ("we took a bullet for the league by signing Beckham--which benefited everyone--so we should be given a DP for Donovan!"). OTOH, if Chivas doesn't get granted a DP slot, you'd better believe that they just got significantly harder to trade for. First, the market went up (another buyer--Chivas--is now competing with LAG for a DP slot). Second, teams see the consequence of trading the slot. More specifically, the value of the DP slot went up (even if only for 1 year). Third, if a DP player (say....Juan Pablo Angel) decided to quit MLS and "go home" his team would still retain the DP slot (it's like magic beans that don't run out until the year limit expires). So should that hypothetical situation happen, TFKAM could hire a replacement DP. But if Guevara leaves, he's gone (unless he's sold--and it's unclear if that happens or not).
I think Chivas will do just fine without the DP slot. They will get a major allocation - wahtever that means - for losing Guevara and can proabably sign a pretty decent player if they want. How did a guy like Paco Palencia play here last season with no DP rule? Chivas can live without the DP for now I think.
No. The contract that has been voided is Amado's refusal to play in MLS: Again: And again, I don't think it warrants another DP slot, but this whole mess absolutely involves complex legal issues. I'd *like* to pretend I'm a lawyer -- after all ... it is the Innernets -- but I can't pull if off.