why isn't ruud krol mentioned in the same row of names as beckenbauer, baresi, scirea ??? i get the feeling as years go by that ruud krol is somewhat underrated.... maybe because he played the first half of his career as leftback... and what a leftback he was.. great vision, speed, good tackling, passing also good in attack.. but for the secodn half of his career he was sweeper and i truly believe ruud krol as a sweeper should belong along the names of beckenbauer and scirea a true leader he was... probably also the msot complete defender ever..... maybe player A was better in passing long range and player B was better at tackling and intercepting and player C had more speed but when taking the overall package ruud krol is the msot complete defender ever....
Ruud Krol always is underrated.So are South American defenders. Italian defenders always are rated highest
mmm he was right behind those names along with Thuram Zanetti Cafu D Santos Vogts ... Carlos ... Krol was more like Maldini Thuram Zanetti kinda great and versatile DF who could play either great on the side or center (lately found with Canavaro Puyol Lahm ) Beckenbauer, Scirea Baresi B.Moore Passarella Figueroa ... were more of a great center man + libero type + Leader ... hence BIGGER then the above by a bit Just like Pele Maradona Cruyff Di Stefano Puskas ... > Garrincha Zidane Zico Platini Ronaldo Eusebio ... in same sense (less complete package)
Cafu played in 3 straight WC Finals! Yes, that's very impressive…he can thank O FENOMENO for that feat! Regarded by many (mostly Europeons) as the greatest RB of all-time! This claim is simply absurd and bloody disgusting He's not the greatest OH NO NEVER THAT…he's top 10 at best: 1. Djalma Santos/Carlos Alberto 2. Carlos Alberto/Djalma Santos 3. Thuram 4. Zanetti 5. Vogts 6. Arguably Bergomi 7. Arguably Burgnich 8. Arguably Gerets/Lahm 9. Arguably Gentile 10. Arguably Jorginho/Suurbier/CAFU And now Roberto Carlos - His FK accuracy is as bad as CR7's if not worse! RC is considered by many the best left back ever IL WRONGO !!! He's probably TOP 10 at best as well... 1. Maldini 2. N. Santos 3. Facchetti 4. Krol 5. Schnellinger 6. Arguably Breitner 7. Arguably Cabrini 8. Arguably Junior 9. Arguably Brehme 10. Arguably Marzolini/Hapgood/Zebec/Roberto Carlos
N Santos was regarded as first full back ever (pioneer) in history - arguably the best with Maldini Carlos Alberto , D.Santos, Cafu, Carlos , Zanetti were among top10 best full backs (Junior and Luizinho were close up there) Passarella Figueroa were among the TOP10 best CB/libero/Sweeper ============================================== That's history! At present Thiago silva was the best DF in the world. David Luiz is among the TOP best DF, and so are Maescherano, Alves Marcello Rojo among TOP fullback right now
I think some sources/books mention Krol in the same vein as Scirea, or even mention/include Krol and not Scirea at times. Not the same story with Beckenbauer and Baresi for example, but I can see the argument Beckenbauer was better going forwards (not with long passes; and defensively not as complete maybe) and that Baresi was better defensively (and not as good with long passes, but a bit better at surging/dibbling through midfield and then playing a short pass I'd say). Surely Krol deserves a mention among the top defenders and players of all time though, and it's probably true he doesn't get it evey time.
Best centrebacks in the world; Thiago Silva, Jerome Boateng, Diego Godin, Sergio Ramos, Miranda, Benatia, Chiellini, Gerard Pique, Vincent Kompany, Laurent Kosclieny, Mats Hummels, Ezequiel Garay, Pepe and upcoming young guys like Varane, Marquinhos, Laporte, Jose Gimenez. David Luiz is not among the top centrebacks and Mascherano, though I think is underrated as a CB isn't among the top ones. You are just trying to enhance your "weak era" argument, or you don't watch much football? At full back we have; Philip Lahm, Juanfran, Pablo Zabaleta, Branislav Ivanovic, Dani Carvajal, Dani Alves, David Alaba, Ricardo Rodriguez, Filipe Luis, Marcelo, Azpilicueta etc Again, Rojo? Seriously?
How could Zanetti be ahead of Bergomi? Zanetti was an amazing player but Bergomi was above him,much more solid. Also,Lizarazu and Ashley Cole should be deserved more
Yeah but he often is forgotten. And that's why they consider Roberto Carlos as #1 left back of all time. So does Cafu BTW,how do you guy rank Thiago Silva?
David costed 50+mils and was not a TOP CB? Maecherano was among the top CB for club and also in last WC2014 OK? what FACT and CLUE you brought to say they are not top CB right now? IMAGINATION? ======================================= FACT of weak era: even some old veteran left over from last era were proven great in this era: Old Nesta, old Terry, old Puyol, and of course oldd LAHM
David Luiz costing 50mil is a combination of extravagant spending by PSG and very shrewd business by Jose Mourinho. Otherwise, there's a reason Mourinho didn't mind letting him go and a lot of managers play him in midfield in crucial games (including PSG's recent game against Chelsea and Mourinho did so too at times last season). Mascherano was top class in the World Cup, as a holding midfielder. As a centreback? Well ask yourself why every transfer window Barca have been trying to sign a natural defender. Lahm isn't old either, his peak years are from this era. Old defenders have always done just fine in the succeeding 'eras' ... Pietro Vierchowod, played for Juve and Milan after 35. Ruud Krol, he was legendary for Napoli in his 30s, Giuseppe Bergomi and many others across different eras. It is not unique to this era.
Isn't he? I usually rate him as one of the greatest central defenders of all-time: 1° Beckenbauer, 2° Baresi, 3° Moore, 4° Figueroa, 5° Passarella, 6° Scirea, 7° Krol... The rest: Nesta, Sammer, Santamaría, Nasazzi, Chumpitaz...
Bergomi, Burgnich and Gentile seem out of place in this group because they were right-markers in Zona Mista system, more like a centre-back than a full-back in my opinion. Then, I'm not so sure how Suurbier could be in the ratio of Cafú. The Dutch was a very reliable right-side-back but I think he was rather a very good complement than a brilliant piece of play by himself. I'd rate better to Branko Stankovic, Víctor Rodríguez Andrade, Jimmy Armfield, Danny McGrain, Manuel Amoros, Manfred Kaltz and Leandro. Personally, I think even the Chilean Luis Eyzaguirre and Brazilian Dani Alves and Maicon (perhaps also Nelinho) have a better case.
You already give the answer: he's typically rated behind Moore, Figueroa, Passarella, Scirea. Just like Ronald Koeman loses it against Sammer. I saw though that Alan Hansen (who always stressed sound defending) had Krol third only behind Beckenbauer and Moore (until 1996), but ahead of the other named players (yes, strangely also ahead of Baresi, who is sixth). Maybe the passing of time and the internet era, where opinion has been democratized, works against him. Each one has a right to a opinion; personally I think he is in the class behind Beckenbauer and Baresi. Previously I was more inclined to put Baresi in the lower group too, but anyway. Moore can be in the first group as well. Three factors that are a problem for Krol: - He missed the 1971 European Cup final. Ajax played one of their least impressive games of the season, but they won and Krol wasn't necessary. - He wasn't that good in the 1978 World Cup (captain). This was recently also mentioned in the debate about who deserves a statue in the garden of the football federation. Krol also acknowledged that it was OK, but not great (compared it with Thiago Silva at 2014WC). - If he had moved to Italy or another fancy league earlier (or leagues had lifted the bans earlier), he would have been held in a higher regard. Now he moved to Italy when he was past his prime (but arguably still excellent for two/three seasons).
Your definition about the "right markers" in Zona Mista and Catenaccio system, as closer to CB than FB roles, remind me, the old Pyramid-Fullback role. Of course, diferent to those roles, but closer to Centreback than Full Back role, too, imho. btw, I usually rate Krol in the 2nd group of elite CBs and FBs at the same time (around #5-#10). Something unmatched by other world class defender.
whatever you said (no proofs but pure speculation) YOU FAILED to prove your wrong point that David Luiz and Maescherano were NOT among the top DF now all FACTs said THEY ARE if not the very top DF in this (weak ) ERA
Baresi became an internationally renowned super defender (and Italy NT starter) at the age of 28. Scirea had his best press ratings between 1979 and 1984 (ofc, also the most successful years for the club he played for); so after the age of 26. I also believe Beckenbauer had his very best years as libero after the age of 25-26, also going by the available matches.
I think you noted before (as I noticed on DBS Calcio's site too IIRC) that Krol had the edge with average ratings over Scirea when both were in Serie A (in Krol's opening seasons anyway). Noteworthy since you'd not expect bias towards foreign players over Italian ones. I think it's interesting and an uncertain task to try and establish Scirea's peak but those years seem to be about right I would think. Retrospectively I'm not sure it can be done, and we don't know whether 1981 would be considered the year he was at his best or 1983 for example. It seems more likely he was at a similar high level as a classy libero for consecutive years though. There is now more footage for individual performances by him on Youtube I notice (wheras a few years ago there might even have been a bit more footage in terms of playing compilations rather than tribute videos - there was one with some sharp but precise tackles I remember as well as the ones of course that show him going forwards quite a bit). Interesting to see two videos for him playing in EC semi-final games both just outside of that probable peak period for his general form (vs Bruges in 77/78, and away in Barcelona 85/86 - both typical displays by him and showing plenty of class as well as defensive awareness - noticeable that he doesn't go forwards as much in 85/86 despite some assured play on the ball in his own half and apart from the fact it was an away match I guess his age and perhaps the move away from attacking liberos also play a part in that): (This video below clearly shows his role in the goal btw, with a pre-assist) I think the disadvantage he has vs Baresi is that if he got caught off balance a bit he didn't have the same acceleration to get back and make the challenge (of course Baresi got caught off balance and didn't recover at times but it was probably more liable to happen to Scirea). Krol and Beckenbauer were also quicker so with the long strides of Scirea but more pace they would have been able to avoid being out sprinted more too. I think Baresi was also a bit more reactive in being able to make challenges, but for class and calmness on the ball and for clever defensive positioning/play I dunno whether anyone beats Scirea?