Rush: "Pele Overrated Because He's Black"

Dare I say it? This rings true. Pele WAS overrated.

 

Re: Re: Rush: "Pele Overrated Because He's Black"

please tell us you are kidding

 

Re: Re: Re: Rush: "Pele Overrated Because He's Black"

Its been two hours, and he still hasn't told us. I'm guessing that maybe he's not kidding. And its sad, really, because Mr. McCracken's powers of analysis are usually so spot-on.

 

Re: Re: Rush: "Pele Overrated Because He's Black"

Pele was one of the greatest, but he was no Clint Mathis.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Rush: "Pele Overrated Because He's Black"

now tell me you are kidding

 

By today's standards, Pele could be considered overrated.

 

i'm fascinated... please explain this to me

 

I can field this one.

Because by today's standards, anyone or anything that is at all good or popular, is automatically decried as 'overrated.'

 

i really wanna hear his theory

 

He scored over 1,000 goals as a club player and almost 1 a game for Brazil. I guess he was overrated - like Jordan was overrated at basketball and Ted Williams as a hitter.

 

Would Pele be able to prosper in today's style of game?

This is a guy who scored most of his club goals for his Brazilian club. I would like to see how he would've done, in his prime, in today's European leagues.

He had 92 caps during his carrer, which was well before the explosion that's happened in today's game.

 

What "explosion" are you talking about? Yes, the players are more fit today, what with weight taking and "supplements," but the game was much more violent in those days. Theres a documentary about the '66 world cup which will give you an idea of the beatings he took. In those days there were no subsitutes, period, so if you broke your leg, you took a seat or hobbled around and tried to help anyway you can. Today nobody would get away with the stuff they pulled on him.
Of course, the game was also much more open back then, with formations like 2-3-5 being common, but hell. Do you think thirty years of tactical development would help Rio Ferdinand if he found himself 1 v 1 with a 20 year old Pele?

 

I can actually hear your brain screeching to a halt.

There are more teams now competing for WC positions than when Pele was playing. A player is within a reasonable opprotunity to break the century mark in caps.

You seem to forget that the game is about skill and not muscle. Weight gaining doesn't help with a players performance.

Pele first played a World Cup in '58, substitutions were allowed by then for injury. Besides, we know how the Brazilians play up every bump.

I would place my money on Rio over Pele. Technicality over flare. A 20 yr old Pele wouldn't even have much of an opprotunity to crack a starting XI in today's world.

 

As others have mentioned, Pele never played in Europe. His career was spent in Brazil, against inferior competition. He also played in an era of free-wheeling soccer, where offensive players were given vastly more room to operate than in today's game. Pele had tremendous skills for sure but I can name a few others I'd rather have on my team: Cryuff, Beckenbauer, Riva, Van Basten, Maradona, to name just five.

 

this has got to be the dumbest *#*#*#*#*# i have ever read in my life.... congratulations

 

Inferior competition? They sucked so much, they won three World Cups during his career. So either the Brazilian game didn't stink that much, or Pele was so freaking good that he carried a bunch of no-names past players who did, in fact, play their entire careers in Europe.

Being the best offensive player in an offensive era only means he was the best of the best - if it was so easy to do what Pele did, why didn't everyone do it? And in what era did Italy not play defensive soccer? This wasn't the 1930's, after all.

It's cute that people want to be contrarian about Pele, but no one in history can match his career. Maradona had all of one good World Cup. So did Cruyff. Pele had three, and if he had been healthy in 1966, it would have been four.

Van Basten won one European championship, and comparing his career with Pele is just ridiculous. And Luigi freaking Riva? You sound like one of those 1940's Red Sox fans who sang "Dom, Dom DiMaggio, he's better than his brother Joe." You couldn't come up with a player that, oh, I don't know...scored more than HALF as many international goals as Pele?

Beckenbauer - maybe, but talk about comparing apples and oranges. Might as well have a "Pele v. Lev Yashin" discussion.

 

Ferenc Puskas. Scored 84 international goals. Played in one WC. Scored 4 goals, lead his time to the final and was the best player of the tournament. Forced to go into exile after the '58 unrest in Hungary. Scored 4 goals in the 1960 Champions Cup final. Was 33 at the time. I could go on and on.

No one is denying that Pele was amazing. No one is denying that he wasn't one of the best players ever. THE best, though? Wayne Gretzky was THE best hockey player ever, but he was simply head and shoulders above everyone. Was Pele really that much better than his contemporaries or players who came afterwards?

The big problem here is, like people already mentioned, that he played all his career in Brazil. While you may think, because of the quality of the Brazilian team, that the Brazilian league was at the level of Spanish or Eyetalian, it wasn't exactly the case. Brazilian league, until very recently, didn't exactly exist. You had state leagues, and much like MLB back before it whored itself out to corporate America, teams from one league didn't play teams from the other leagues. Pele never played against many of his teammates. Pele played against some good teams in his league, but he also played against many amateur teams. If Gerd Mueller got to play against 4th division Oberliga teams every other week, he could've scored a 1000 goals, too.

In order to be the best, you have to prove it by constantly playing against other contenders to that moniker, not just once every 4 years.

 

Re: Re: Rush: "Pele Overrated Because He's Black"

Jesus, Ian. First it was alcohol isn't addictive. Now this?! Give it up, dude.

 

Yeah. Pele played against inferior competition.

England, Germany, Italy...

 

The men in the white suits will be knocking at your door shortly. Just try to be cooperative.

 

I don't know what that screeching sound was, but my brain was very well-oiled last night, so if it came to a stop, it wouldn't have made any noise.
For some reason I said "weight taking" as opposed to weight training, and yes the game is about skill, but if the skill is equal, the game will be decided by fitness.
I couldn't find the history of soccer substitution rules, but at least in the 1966 World Cup, no substitutions were allowed for any reason. http://www.englandfootballonline.com/CmpWC/CmpWC1966Squad.html
I don't know if this was a regression from a previous substitution rule, if substitutions already were allowed in most leagues, or what. I'd appreciate anyone who could find out.

Certainly we can't say Pele was "under-rated," and the goal-scorers get a disproportionate amount of the glory, like quarterbacks in football or home-run hitters in baseball. But he was the best athlete I've ever seen. Whatever changes have happened in the last thirty five years, he'd have adapted.

 

Here's a good article de-bunking some widely held beliefs about Maradona & Pele:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/gabriele_marcotti/news/2000/12/19/marcotti_insider/