Running and Cardio - yay or nay?

Discussion in 'Youth & HS Soccer' started by NewDadaCoach, Jan 16, 2020.

  1. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The good news is he clearly likes having the ball and is pretty good at getting it, so he'll get the touches.
     
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  2. SuperHyperVenom

    United States
    Jan 7, 2019
    Only one of my kids started soccer early - U7's and as I said they were organised when they played. I guess we got lucky. I remember seeing the younger teams and thinking what a mess. So don't worry. Just start looking for a more serious team for your son - if that's what's important to you.

    When trialing for a new team like @Terrier1966 said never tell the coach (or other parents) how good your kid is - they'll think you're one of those parents.

    The higher the level of the team, the more committed the parents and kids will be which is great, but it will also be more cut throat. And your kid may no longer be the star.
     
  3. CornfieldSoccer

    Aug 22, 2013
    Others have said it, but I'll repeat it for emphasis: Tell him to forget the walls are there. There are no wall outdoors and for a lot of kids it seems to become something they count on after playing indoors. In year 7 or 8 of winter indoor soccer (whatever we're on), I've seen a lot of kids who tear it up indoors and can't transfer that to the outdoor game -- they just disappear in real soccer and can't impact a game. Relying on the wall is just part of the problem, but it's definitely part of it.

    One of my son's outdoor coaches insisted that when his kids went indoors they play like the walls aren't there.
     
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  4. Terrier1966

    Terrier1966 Member

    Nov 19, 2016
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    One “other” view is for kids to act like the wall is a teammate and as long as the pass is played as such it is “ok”.
    Lazy passes using the wall to solve problems, such as long kicks that rebound off end walls, are not ok.

    So, a quick, angled pass off a wall that you receive by moving is an action with some value. Blasting a ball off the wall versus working out of trouble is not realistic.
     
  5. The Stig

    The Stig Member

    Jun 28, 2016
    It would be more impressive if he dribbled out of the bee hive with the ball.

    Your kid is fast, so ignore the fast players game. He will need to be better with the ball in tighter space as he grows older. The long kick and run goals he is scoring offer nothing for him to learn.

    At this age a common coaching technique is to score "skill points" during a game or practice. Skill points can be given for any and all of the following:
    1. A pass
    2. A pull back on the ball
    3. A change of direction with the ball.
    etc...

    Make up your own skills and adjust anything to his level. Get him to focus on more fundamental skills in a fun and engaging way. Counting up the goals, especially when they are easy to get is pointless will not be the appropriate feedback for him for continuous development. If you must count the goals then adjust for indoor. Two of the goals would have never counted as they would have gone out of bounds.
     
  6. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member

    Business Metrics SC
    Apr 26, 2012
    There were a couple of instances, one in the outdoor vids and one in the indoor vids, where he did emerge from the cluster due to close control vs poking it away and catching up. Look for more of that, show him that.

    When I coached u-PuggwithNoKeepers, I tried to teach not scoring from beyond midfield - ie kicking it out of the hive faster than anyone could catch up. It helped some of the more competitive/uptight kids relax knowing that when they got to u9, those "goals" would become "goal kicks" at a minimum since the keeper would just pick them up.

    There was however, one kid who could rip shots, even at u8, from beyond halfway. He could "pick the arc" on the puggs, as it were. So if you can work on his shooting, it will help him long term if he can strike a hard shot on the run, instead of just running it to the doorstep.
     
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  7. Unnaturallybigger

    United States
    Jun 28, 2019
    Any touches on the ball are good but based upon our experience I just don't see much development benefit from playing indoor soccer. There is just too much reliance by the kids on the walls keeping the ball in play. IMO futsal is tremendous for developing kids foot skills, quick thinking etc. I've mentioned this before but if I had to do it all over again I would just have my son play a lot of futsal until about 8 or 9, no outdoor until then.
     
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  8. SuperHyperVenom

    United States
    Jan 7, 2019
    We've gotten a bit off topic, I agree with @Unnaturallybigger. We lived very close to a well-run futsal academy/club when my kids were young. I don't remember any teams being younger than U10 though. Futsal is very organised with patterns, formations, rotations, etc. and such a quick game that requires a pretty decent level of skill and accurate passing.

    What I like about it is that in one game your kid could get experience in almost all of the positions (defend, wing, pivot) and there is absolutely no switching off when on the court.

    People always talk about more injuries in futsal, but I never saw it in fact there seemed to be way less physical contact. But my kids stopped around U13 so maybe injuries happen after that???
     
  9. SuperHyperVenom

    United States
    Jan 7, 2019
  10. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member

    Business Metrics SC
    Apr 26, 2012
    Makes sense, indoor 3v3 and 4v4 with low bounce balls but no keeper from u6-8 isn't really anything formal, call it futsal when you add keepers at u9/10.

    The big selling point on futsal here is after a few years of all the teams playing wallball and having kids get checked or just stumble into walls and get injured people have flocked to the lower contact game. What injuries related to futsal have you heard?
     
  11. SuperHyperVenom

    United States
    Jan 7, 2019
    My kids used to love futsal. They were on a team that you had to trial for. So when I used to try to get my kid's friends to trial their parents would always say things like - "don't want them to get injured". There seems to be some fear in my part of town that futsal causes injuries haha. Like I said it's way less physical than outdoors. I never saw an injury. So much more fun to watch than outdoor!
     
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  12. Cantona's Eyebrow

    Dirty Leeds
    Togo
    Oct 8, 2018
    Unless you want to step into a time machine and transport yourself back to the 1970s, then kids SHOULD NOT be running laps at football practice. Sure, stick in 10 minutes of speed, agility and quickness exercises that focus on technique, fast feet and changes of direction, but laps is a waste of time.

    At the age of 10 on wards, depending on the level, players should work on their personal fitness in their own time to develop stamina for matches. These standards and expectations should be laid down by the club.

    There's plenty of fitness programs and apps that are freely available. The player just needs the motivation and a pair of running trainers to get fully match fit. To reach their true potential on the football field, players must take ownership of their own personal fitness.
     
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  13. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    I agree that futsal is probably better than indoor soccer, but indoor is more popular... so more venues, more leagues nearby, ie more convenient. Futsal does seem to be growing though so that's good.
    I think indoor is better than nothing.
     
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  14. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    I just started playing this year; and it's not real futsal, it's just playing on a basketball court with puggs, but we do use a real futsal ball.
    Anywho I feel like there's potential for knee injuries. I'm surprised I didn't dislocate mine; tripped on the ball several times and I could swear my knee moved in weird ways, but ended up ok. Everything is "stickier" - shoes stick to the floor, shoes stick to ball, ball sticks to floor. But overall seems safer than outdoor.
     
  15. SuperHyperVenom

    United States
    Jan 7, 2019
    Are you wearing futsal shoes? Because it shouldn't be sticky. The ball is heavier so maybe it appears to stick to the floor. For kids/teenagers I've never read that the risk of knee injury is greater in futsal as opposed to outdoor.
     
  16. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    They are flat soled, addidas predator I think. I am not sure, shoes confuse me, and every time I ask someone at the store I get a different answer.
    They will say:
    Flat soled is for futsal.
    For turf use the turf shoes with mini-studs. But then I'm like, is that for indoor turf or outdoor turf (or artificial grass)? they say it doesn't matter. But it does. I looked into it. Some outdoor fields, the newer ones I believe, have "3rd generation turf"... which is designed for firm grass cleats to be worn and not cause injury (by getting stuck).
    Anywho this could probably be it's own thread and I doubt there is consensus.
    The people at the shoe store say to use flat-soled for futsal. But I do think there are actual "futsal" shoes that are different that flat-soled indoor shoes. You may know better than me.

    Not to digress but I did sort of lay this out... here's what I came up with:

    [game] - [surface] - [shoe type]

    Futsal - flat/hard - flat sole
    Indoor Soccer - turf - flat sole or mini-studs
    Outdoor Soccer - AG - mini-studs or natural grass studs
    Outdoor Soccer - Grass - natural grass boots

    I'm pretty sure that at the local school here that has a new-ish artificial grass field, that most kids playing soccer and football are using regular grass studded boots. But you wouldn't use those for indoor soccer right? When I was young, for indoor I used the common Adidas Sambas which were flat soled and it was fine. But the store guys keep saying to use the mini-studs. Most of the kids on my kid's indoor team use flat-soled not mini-studs. It's a clusterf*ck to be honest because it's impossible to get a straight answer.
     
  17. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    Here's what I'm talking about with knee injury risk:
    https://gfycat.com/wearyclearamericanbittern-female-soccer
    This was me on my first try.
     
  18. Terrier1966

    Terrier1966 Member

    Nov 19, 2016
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    Somewhere there is a future World Cup player learning to play barefoot.
     
  19. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    we play barefoot (or in socks) at home
     
  20. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon Member

    Feb 27, 2017
    You forgot an option... soft ground cleats. For use on natural grass when the ground is soft.

    That being said, I don't see any reason to get a pair of "mini stud" shoes. They should only be used on certain types of indoor turf. But you can use flat sole on that kind of turf in addition to basketball/futsal courts.
     
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  21. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    Here's a guy who plays in the USL talking about his cardio approach. He does some cardio to work on short, medium, and long distances; modeling it after the type of running you'd do in a game. I'm not saying he's the ultimate expert on this topic but seeing that he played D1 and USL I think he has some credibility.
     
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  22. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This seems to be good, sensible advice. But maybe not for youth players?

    I honestly don't know. I'm not sure at what age competitive players really need to work to develop match fitness. What say you all?
     
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  23. The Stig

    The Stig Member

    Jun 28, 2016
    He is also a grown man. Your son is 5. The only cardio that needs to be done is you need to breath slowly and relax.

    Also, he is in USL. While cardio is important for adults perhaps he should have focused more on his soccer and he might be in MLS.
     
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  24. Terrier1966

    Terrier1966 Member

    Nov 19, 2016
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    I’d say we all note the amount of playing and training youth players already do...if they aren’t getting enough work during that then there is a different issue. If they are supposed to be “resting” a bit then they should do so.

    Varsity HS and college teams might have some requirements for running the 2 mile, the cone drill or other interval benchmarks. Hopefully that is just some attention to the drill mechanics...a travel player should be able to exceed the minimum requirements.

    I’d rather see a player work on an agility ladder than running intervals.

    I guess if a player was out due to injury or had a low level of fitness they might spend time getting “in shape” but other players shouldn’t need to get in game shape.

    My $.02
     
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  25. pu.ma

    pu.ma Member

    Feb 8, 2018
    Our kids started when they started playing full sided games. The team would run a separate session with a fitness trainer. Could be preseason, start of the season, or even during the bulk of the season. It does make a big difference in games and seem to me like the right time to start.
     
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