Running and Cardio - yay or nay?

Discussion in 'Youth & HS Soccer' started by NewDadaCoach, Jan 16, 2020.

  1. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon Member

    Feb 27, 2017
    Here's the limits for men:
    upload_2020-1-21_6-32-48.png
    Women can be found on the same page: http://www.scholarshipstats.com/ncaalimits.html

    As far as "why" a specific number for each sport, I'm guessing it has to do with how many are "needed" on a roster and how much money the sport brings in.

    Although, that doesn't really make sense. I just checked ND's hockey roster and they have 28. They're probably about as "non-revenue" as soccer, with about the same amount on the roster, but they get double the scholarships?
     
    NewDadaCoach and CoachP365 repped this.
  2. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member

    Business Metrics SC
    Apr 26, 2012
    28 players, so either they split the 18 across them or there are some players who do not get athletic scholarships and can finance the $50K other ways - academic merit, financial need, 529, didn't play club soccer so saved that 8-10K per year...

    ( i know, hockey is also expensive it was joke...besides I think club hockey was a precursor to club soccer in expense and travel requirements and parents using it as "the new country club" where you spend a ton of $ to see the same people every weekend and outsource the meal prep :) )
     
    NewDadaCoach repped this.
  3. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon Member

    Feb 27, 2017
    Well, I picked ND just because it was the first one I thought of that I knew had a hockey team. There are state schools that have it also.
     
  4. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member

    Business Metrics SC
    Apr 26, 2012
    Totally misread your post - I see now you meant hockey has 2x the scholarships as soccer.

    I think hockey is more generally known to the masses, and there's a clear pathway from college hockey to professional hockey.
     
  5. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon Member

    Feb 27, 2017
    But how does that justify twice the scholarships? Obviously football and basketball bring in the money, so I get why 80%+ of their rosters get full $$$, but how did the NCAA decide soccer gets 9.9 and hockey gets 18?
     
  6. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    IDK, but if I had to guess or speculate, I would say at the time they allocated those scholarships, hockey had a stronger lobby, probably with the support and backing of the NHL…hockey, was and is, part of the big 4 US sports…

    I doubt today US Soccer would fight or argue for (of even care about) more scholarships…
     
    bigredfutbol repped this.
  7. CornfieldSoccer

    Aug 22, 2013
    No more than an educated guess on my part, but I think for a lot of schools, hockey (at least on the men's side) is a "revenue" sport. Here in Big Ten country, you get pretty sizable crowds at DI hockey games, and there is at least some TV interest. In the Big Ten, hockey also part of the higher-profile programming on BTN, which puts many, many millions of dollars into the conference's schools every year -- just over $50 million per school in 2018.

    I'm sure the NHL backing Wulf mentions doesn't hurt, either. Illinois is considering adding hockey, and that process started with a push from the NHL.

    I doubt there's a soccer program that generates enough revenue to cover its costs -- maybe a school like Maryland or Indiana on the men's side? Anyone have any idea?
     
    bigredfutbol repped this.
  8. CornfieldSoccer

    Aug 22, 2013
    Sort of remarkable the directions this thread has gone.
     
  9. CornfieldSoccer

    Aug 22, 2013
    To the original question that kicked all of this off, my son's most recent club coach -- who I respect quite a bit for his soccer knowledge -- told me last year he dislikes it when his players run track. He believes the form they're taught for track hurts their running for soccer.
    I have no idea if he's right, and my 14-year-old wants to run track (which I'm all for).
     
  10. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member

    Business Metrics SC
    Apr 26, 2012
    Took us a while to get there but seems like "Yay" for running and cardio, given there are more track and field and x-country scholarships available than soccer :)
     
  11. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    We had coach who said the same thing...I chalked it up to just not wanting competition...
     
  12. Unnaturallybigger

    United States
    Jun 28, 2019
    Not uncommon for soccer coaches to dislike their players running cross country or track. Some reasons legit, some not. All of the distances that they compete in are unrelated to soccer as are some of the mechanics. My son and another teammate compete in their school district's cross country meets. However, they do it on the down low since their DA coach would not approve. I have total respect for their coach but I'm not going to limit his opportunities and the meets don't interfere with any soccer practice or games.
     
  13. The Stig

    The Stig Member

    Jun 28, 2016
    The only kid in any of the videos posted that is getting full ride is the girl.

    And that is what you need to look at for perspective. That girl was cutting kids up, had excellent comfort on the ball and the necessary vision and aggression.

    Frankly, for all your hubris I would have expected your boy to play like that girl.

    Sorry, but your kid is a nice player. There is nothing currently exceptional about him. He can most likely play in college if he stays at it but from what I saw he has no greater chance than any other kid I saw on the field.
     
    upper left and mwulf67 repped this.
  14. dehoff03

    dehoff03 Member

    Apr 22, 2016
    We would have the same issues with rec teams. Usually an email or two from the director to the team saying your team has no coach, someone needs to step up would get it resolved. They also had coaching resources and sessions for the different age groups.
     
    NewDadaCoach repped this.
  15. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    How the heck do Lacrosse and cross country get more scholarships than soccer? These numbers would have made sense 20 years ago but not today; soccer is probably a bigger draw than lacrosse at most schools; and CC rosters seem to be way smaller than soccer.
     
  16. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    I can see why he would believe that soccer players should not have the exact same form as track runners. Different mechanics. But I would think your kid, or any kid, would be able to adapt their running to the season/sport.
    I also think the stamina your kid would build would be an asset in soccer.
    Quick anecdote - when I was in 8th grade I was slow and chubby. In 9th grade high school I got on the soccer team and they ran us to death. Lost a ton of weight and my endurance became quite good. Sophomore year played some games on the varsity squad and I remember the feeling of having good stamina, what that felt like physically and psychologically during the game. It was a big confidence boost; knowing I could run circles around some of the other guys, even if they were more skilled; it just felt good. It allows you to break up plays and make runs that you wouldn't be able to do if you were in lesser condition.
     
    pu.ma repped this.
  17. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    #67 NewDadaCoach, Jan 22, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
    For all my hubris? Please quote the exact hubris you speak of.
    I did not say my kid was "the best" or "super duper amazing" or whatever. In fact I said he's not the best 5 year old in the city; I said he's competitive, and maybe top 10%.
    You confuse hubris with data. I gave some data, like he has scored in every game; that is real data, not hubris.

    Last year I watched a lot of 5-year-olds-doing-crazy-awesome-moves on the internet. And then I started teaching my kid all of the moves until I realized it was a waste of time because he can't use them in a game. I mean he can, but it's not necessary to be highly effective at U6. It's impractical and there are better skills to spend time on. So I recalibrated and focused on other stuff that's more useful for the present-day game environments.
    He was already scoring a ton of goals; why would I say "hey stop doing what you're doing and start doing these moves". It would just confuse a 5 year old.
    Now I want him to work on 1 new move a year; I think that's a good pace.

    Plus, a lot of pros that I admire don't do much fancy footwork. Wayne Rooney for ex; I don't see him doing much fancy stuff because he's very efficient. He has great vision, great passing, hustle, can strike the ball with power and precision. He's England's national all-time scorer as well as Man United's all time scorer. I also study Leo Messi; he uses mostly feints and very fast and sharp cuts; that is what we're currently working on and will be for the next year or so.
     
  18. Terrier1966

    Terrier1966 Member

    Nov 19, 2016
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    Soccer players make great HS cross country runners.

    They have stamina developed over 10 years of playing soccer, the leg strength to hit hills, the speed to kick and the competitive edge from playing win-lose games for quite a while.

    Good XC coaches do a lot of interval training, weight lifting and core building.

    I would say a professional soccer player should not do a lot of long distance training but a youth player would benefit greatly from a well run XC program.

    If the XC program is not well run and it consists of miles of pounding on roads, no recovery plans, a poor mix of distance and interval training etc. then nobody should be in the program and a high level soccer player would likely not benefit from the wear and tear, poor habits and likely lack of support on mechanics, nutrition, recovery and injuries.
     
  19. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Welcome to the party…although you’re good 7 years too early….

    If you had done your homework better, I doubt you would have let your son touch a soccer ball…I am not sure I would have either, but by the time I figured out how little actual love soccer gets and just how dysfunctional youth soccer in this country is, it was too damn late…lol.
     
  20. The Stig

    The Stig Member

    Jun 28, 2016
    #70 The Stig, Jan 22, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
    Scoring in every game at 6 is not data. The girl in the video didn't score in that clip but she was light years beyond any kid on your kids soccer field.

    "Fancy moves" are not about being effective at 6 years old. Those "fancy moves" are about comfort with the ball. If my kid could control the ball the way that girl could I could care less if she scored 1 goal not to mention 59 goals against daisy picking kids.

    Did you also notice in that video how the other kids were not bunched up like your bumble bee hive kids were? That means she was playing against much higher level kids than your son. Those kids attacked individually and were far more aggressive in trying to win the ball back. Your son was not defended with the slightest level of intensity.

    You talk about your son being 10% and I'm telling you that your 10% is relative. If your son was on the same field as that girl he isn't even in the top half of kids there. That girl is what 10% looks like.

    If your kid is the smartest kid in the school, find a new school.

    Killing daisy picking kids at 6 years old? Find some nine or ten years olds.
     
    mwulf67 repped this.
  21. bustos21

    bustos21 Member

    Aug 13, 2004
    NJ
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Just a heads up. The girl you guys are referring to in the video is actually a boy. His name is Arat Hosseini (i think from Iran) and he has many videos that went viral. He has great soccer skills for such a young boy but he is also ripped with a six pack and all.

    His instagram below to get an idea of what i'm talking about
    https://www.instagram.com/arat.gym/?utm_source=ig_embed
     
  22. The Stig

    The Stig Member

    Jun 28, 2016
    Ha!

    HE is still 10% though. If he is 1% he scores on that run ;)
     
  23. jvgnj

    jvgnj Member

    Apr 22, 2015
    For your own sanity, do not spend a lot of time watching internet clips of supposed 5-6 year old prodigies and comparing your kid.
     
  24. CornfieldSoccer

    Aug 22, 2013
    Definitely has worked for my son (though XC ended for him when he hit high school last fall). He's played almost all of the available minutes in every game he's played, across several different teams and playing in different positions depending on the team, over the past three or four years.
     
  25. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    Thanks, that phase has passed
     

Share This Page