Fan, Having lived through that time, I agree it is something to be concerned about. BUT I think we're comparing apples to oranges. First of all, Rosemont is at one end of the geographic landscape that makes up Chicagoland. I'm sure that move just turned off a bunch of South Suburban and city fans. Bridgeview is more centrally located. For me as a Northwest suburban resident it's going to be just as long a drive as to NSF. I can take I-294 for most of the ride to the Firehouse, which is pretty uncongested on the weekends, so that's another plus. OK, that's just me and my Northwest suburban die-hard fire fans. And I'm sure the same goes for all you South Siders and city fans. Those without cars can get to Midway and I'm sure the Fire will be able to arrange for buses to go directly to the stadium from there if they did it to go from Nortel/Motorola or where ever it was in Naperville to the stadium. As for the casual fan, they will learn. They learned where the hell Jose Cardinal Stadium was in Naperville (heck, I did, too). It is close to downtown, so its no big deal for the news media to access. And any claims that it makes the Fire look "minor league" playing outside the city limits of Chicago are purely immature (where do the Laxatives play? Is Foxboro in Boston proper?). Whatever they do in Bridgeview, it will be infinitely better than NSF (parking, concession prices, security, etc.). And I think that can only help increase attendance. As long as we win, of course.
Peter Wilt and the Fire organization know enough about Chicago. Is the final solution going to be the ideal one? Probably not. But we don't live in an ideal world. We will have to live with reality and learn to deal with it. That's all I'm saying. I think 99 percent of us would prefer a stadium in Bridgeport. But the fact seems to be that we can't realistically afford one there. So when the announcement is made, let's try and make the best of it instead of waisting energy naysaying something that's not going to change.
Though I would hope so, Jeff. That's not even close to true. Many have stated they'd rather stay in NSF then move anywhere out of the city proper. And that is often the root of most of the arguments. I for one am looking forward to having our own stadium, wherever it is. In two and a half years I will be standing in the perminent section 8 with a big-ass smile on my face.
I think the concern here is that the Fire is really two separate entities, the people in Chicago who run the club day to day, and the club's AEG ownership group for whom the Fire are not a permanent asset but one looking to be sold to a qualified investor. The fear is that the arguments of the former on the importance of locating in the city may fall on deaf ears of the latter when the funding packages are so different. Whether any of the people on this group will go to Bridgeview isn't all that relevant, I'd assume most will. But I think a Bridgeview location hamstrings an opportunity to build a larger fanbase in a way a Chicago location doesn't. Will there be a Chicago Flag on the flagpole of the stadium? Plus, I don't think this is done until the shovels hit the ground.
Then they can. Of course, if the Bridgeview thing goes through, there won't be any soccer games there, but if location is all that matters to them, so be it. Of course, there are people in New York still avoiding MLS because it's not the Cosmos, so it takes all kinds.
You ever been on a CTA bus heading to a sporting event? You learn that even going 0.5 MPH is preferrable to being stopped, but unfortunately those times are few and far between. The lack of "el" access is a problem and not a trivial one. You want to avoid giving potential return customers the feeling that going to a Fire game is a "pain in the ass." I'm planning to moving back to the city in the spring and I'm not going to own a car. I'll get to the games, but it's going to suck out loud getting there.
Yes. And here in New York, I have to ride a half hour on a MTA bus to go see the Metrostars at home every single time I want to go to a MLS game. Of course, the Giants and Jets have these problems too, but I don't think I've ever read as much bitching about it on BigFootball, because they are going to their own home stadium for an event, because they love the team and enjoy the sport, not because they are being forced to, but because they want to. I've also sat in traffic while driving to a Cubs game, sat in traffic while going to a Fire game and sat in Naperville for an hour waiting for a train and no, while it hasn't been fun, I did understand that I needed to leave early enough to get to the thing I wanted to get to. Every event is a pain in the ass: concerts, sporting, theatre, movies, whatever, because you're getting a hell of a lot of people together and putting them somewhere there should not be that many people. Ever go to a concert at The World? Out there, isn't it, but was the show worth it? Probably. Well, this is the same thing.
Who's Going to Pay? I think we all know. The Fire fan! Look, AEG isn't putting up much money. What they put in, they'll get back - from us. The mayor of Bridgeview stated that there won't be a property tax increase. Sooooo, who's going to pay? He envisions a shopping center. There was one - it failed! Too many risks for the fans.
Re: Who's Going to Pay? And exactly how is this different from any other professional sports team, or any other business? I know its just Pork Kabob, but this is just plain stupid. Of the $650 million, how much did the Bears put up that didn't come from the NFL or from PSLs?
Not that I believe Bob Wagman's rumors of the Fire possibly being bought by Club America, but if AEG is really looking to divest itself of some of the teams, and this is not that an unreasonable assumption, given that I think everyone would feel a little better if there were more investors in the league, then what would the situation with a new stadium be? Would AEG continue to be the ones who own/co-own the new stadium? I figure, given their investment in the concert industry, the Staples Center, and the Home Depot Center, that they wouldn't turn their backs on this venue? Would the Fire be tennants of AEG who are in turn managing it on behalf of Bridgeview? Am I worrying about things that I shouldn't be worrying about? It just seems there are more major variables involved then there were a month ago or a year ago.
Some people, like myself, view the stadium issue not in terms of how it will effect myself, but how it will effect the entire fan base. I went to Naperville, I've been to Wheaton, I've been out of state to see the Fire. That's not the issue with most of us here. Bridgeview will work, but we should expect crowds more like those in Naperville than those in the city. The dynamic will change, that's my concern.
13 miles from downtown....it's not that far. Naperville is three times the distance. The biggest problem with Naperville was the small field with fake grass and no beer. Bridgeview will be easier for most the west/southwest suburban fans to get too, and a bit harder for the city fan to get to. I'm all for this if the city isnt' coming up with any money to help the Fire build a place in bridgeport, and the new SF will wear off eventually which means back to a 1/3 full stadium.
You know, at this point, I suppose I should butt out since it doesn't look like I get to move back to Illinois anytime soon and my vote doesn't count. But, if I won the lottery, the first thing I would do would be to buy the Fire. And I'd keep them at NSF. Because I cannot see a way to justify, purely on an economic basis, a move out. Kenn's probably got better access to numbers than I do, but PW's comments on the lease make it pretty clear that the Fire aren't getting screwed. AEG isn't getting nearby land to develop (a la the Frank McCourt/Dodgers deal) or any money from parking in either Bridge area, and there just aren't other revenue sources available for the stadium itself. And it's not inconceivable that the Fire could substantially fill NSF on a regular basis in ten years' time. You'd be foregoing all sorts of money if that were the case and you're out in a 20,000 seater in Bridgeview.
You really can't look at one variable and make a judgement. It makes no sense to consider the situation hypothetically or otherwise only taking one variable (economic package of NSF) into account. There are way too many other things to consider. And sorry to dissapoint but the Fire will not be drawing 65K on a regular basis, even in ten years.
A) The front offices know the numbers, we don't, and they're the ones making the decision as to whether it's economically in our best interest. I don't think we have much reason not to trust them. B) Did I miss something? Where do you get the idea that we won't get any money from parking in either Bridge area. I can kind of see it for the 'port deal b/c I would imagine we would share Comiskey's acres of parking lots. But we should get some revenue from parking in 'view. C) You have a reasonable argument here. It's hard to tell what the attendance will be in ten years. Hopefully they will have the foresight to design a stadium with expansion in mind. (As an example, if you know the Blue Cross Blue Shield building downtown, next to the Aon Center (formerly the Amoco Building), it was built with the possibility of adding 26 more stories if they decide they want to go up further. And Union Station was designed to be 24 stories by Daniel Burnham, but only 8 were built. There is a plan to build it up to 26 stories.) But remember that part of the point in making a twenty-plus thousand seat stadium is that it will increase season ticket holders, which helps the club generate more money long term. NSF, there is never a worry about getting a ticket, so the Fire is more dependent on walk-up, and therefore weather. Since everyone else has stated their opinion, I guess I will, too. I think the best long term option is to build in the city. But it's not my money, so for now, I'll leave it at that.
Is this really the case? Or is AEG pulling the strings from afar? I trust Peter Wilt and company to do their best, but they're not the ones ultimately in charge. And the ones in charge have other priorities.
Don't count on mass transit to Bridgeview before 2015. Don't count on it at all if Mr. Daley is not behind it 100 per cent. It took 5 years to build the 5 mile O'Hare Blue Line extension, after 10 years of fighting about it. At that rate it would have taken the Union Pacific 3,000 years to build the trans-continental railroad. Remember the People Mover at O'Hare? That took about 10 years to get done too. More than a year ago I predicted Mayor Reinsdorf would not allow a Firehouse in Chicago. He sure isn't going to allow one in his backyard. My guess is the city is going through the motions but offering no real cash. If Bridgeview can float a bond deal why can't Chicago? Chicago has a better credit rating. This is a no brainer, even if MLS folds. Chicagoans currently have to drive to Alpine Valley, Wisconsin and other remote venues to hear rock music. Mayor Reinsdorf only lets the bands that he likes play in the Blue Ghost. The state football tournament sees many games drawing well and being played in....Naperville. When those stands come down where will they play next year? The Blue Ghost never has any engagements in October and November, but is is off limits. Chicago does not have a stadium suitable for rock concerts or big high school football games. Soldier Field is locked up due to the 5 day window around Bears games. You can shoehorn a few concerts in but not many. Mayor Reinsdorf has his tax shelter, and the people drive 3 hours to Wisconsin to hear some music. Chicago would be way better but Bridgeview is better than nothing, and nothing is what Mayor Reinsdorf will give us. Just my opinions.
You are forgetting about Tweeter World in Tinley Park I have always been on the City side of the argument for many of the reasons stated. I am also concerned with a potential change in the make up of support . . . BUT If this is a done deal, then it is pointless to argue the merits of the City v. Bridgview unless you want to keep this alive for a decade on the chance that you can say "I told you so." I live in the City, and the way I look at it is this -- it is just as easy, and only slightly longer, for me to get to Midway in comparison to NSF. If the Fire run decent shuttle service, it will be easy and fast to get from Midway to the stadium. All in all, not that big a deal. It really is all perception. The shuttle bus ride will most likely be equal to the time it takes to walk from the Roosevelt stop to NSF, so the added time will be that 20-25 minute ride on the Orange line. I think driving will be easier from the South, West and Northwest suburbs with only the North suburbs getting the shaft.