If we were to have a Mt. Rushmore for 4 RSL players, who wound they be? I’ll go ahead and nominate these three: Javi, Home Boy, KB5. Who would be the 4th? Or do you support someone other than my three? Have at it!!
I’m inclined to agree with you. But, it’s open for debate. We’ve had some great CBs who are not on my list. Also, in the early days, we had some stars who had nothing around them who maybe should be on it. Then there are guys like Cunningham and Andy Williams..,
My son was listening to this Mt. Rushmore idea on ExtraTime. I told him Javi, Rimando, Beckerman, and Sabo. He said that on the podcast they took the first three, and were considering either Beltran or Olave. Can't remember who they settled on. I love Beltran and Olave, but no way would I put them there above Sabo.
I'm guessing this is exclusive to players? Jason Kreis, but only as a manager, would be worth a shout
The OP context is players, but nothing wrong with bringing up others. Uncle Dave is a strong nominee too.
The Rushmore of non players is actually pretty easy, IMO: Uncle Dave, Kreis, Lagerway, and DLH* *jk, It's Bill Manning
I would go with Sabo, Javi, Kyle, and Nick. What about a most popular or favorite player for any reason Mt. Rushmore? Or 4 players that people loved that never should be on a Mt. Rushmore? Like Jamie Watson, Dr. Goals, Paulo Jr., and lets go with Seba. Oh what could have been.
The cult player Mt Rushmore would be more entertaining. Ned Grabavoy Tony Beltran Burrito Yura (various forms) Findley Mathis Campos etc.
I think Borlave could count as a kind of chimeric dual-head participant, because the precedent already existed. Reading these names and nicknames makes me smile. I hadn't thought about the good years in a while. It used to be a blast to be an RSL fan.
Launching the league and giving it credibility mattered. The only American player non-soccer fans (and there weren't many of us soccer fans) recognized was Alexi Lalas. All the Yanks Abroad who came back to play for the league mattered, but no one mattered more than Alexi Lalas coming back from Serie A, and it wasn't close. For that reason, I can see him being there.
Ok. I acknowledge this. I still tell people “ He was the first American to play in Serie A” ( although I don’t honestly know if it is accurate). But in the 25 year history of MLS I just can’t rank him in the 2nd four.
For an MLS top 4 it's too hard to choose IMO. A lot of the MLS 1.0 guys probably wouldn't be on teams today, or have nowhere near the impact that they did then. But they did get the league going, and we wouldn't be where we're at now without them paving the way. It'd be real easy to choose guys that played in the last 5-10 years, but it would be doing a disservice to some of those early players.
This conversation is akin to debating "Best Player" and "Most Valuable Player" which often get conflated but might also be considered very differently. Who goes on the Mt. Rushmore - your best players, your essential players, franchise players, other players, a combo? Also, I like that we skipped right past Nicky being in the top four and on to whether Lalas belongs on the second four. What criteria keeps Nicky in the top four? And once you tweak the criteria, why not tweak it so Lalas is an answer for the second tier?
I posted the Nick info because it was Lalas’ list. The link to the show is at the bottom. It starts at the 17:50 mark. Cliffs: Eligibility set by the hosts: Played in the league. No coaches, owners, etc... Alexi’s approach: Mt. Rushmore symbolism as the template: Birth, growth, development, preservation Americans only. In each category the first person made Lalas’ four. Birth: Eric Wynalda (first goal); Tab Ramos, Lalas Growth: Eddie Pope (elevated the CB position in America, could have played anywhere in the world, stayed home); Chad Marshall Development: lasting impact, carried the league through a dark time: Landon Donovan; Wondo Preservation: breadth of experience, multi-informed perspective, warrior, work ethic, can’t be flustered, stood the test of time: Nick Rimando. https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020...r-all-time-major-league-soccer-mount-rushmore
compared to how the rest of the "Rushmores" were put together, Lalas actually put more effort into this than most anyone else. Also, the league Rushmore, given the history of this league, is very difficult to make. Far too many fans end up with MLS 3.0 guys, which is just a farce. Others pivot the other way and just throw out recent history. I will say, the notion of ONLY USA players is dumb. We have 3 Canadian clubs, there should be one Canadian player on there or at least someone involved with those clubs. Dero fits this bill perfectly. I think shoving Alophonso Davies, who is still just 19, onto the thing is laughable. As is Almiron. I get that these pundits like it for the "this is the future way of the league" argument, but there are still very serious possibilities that they both bust in a year or two and we completely forget about them. I agree with Alexi that someone from the birth has to be involved. To not do so would show ignorance of the pains this league went through to get started. I think the first goal thing is being overstated. I honestly think Lalas really wants to put himself up there, and he should, but doesn't want to be the guy to say it. It's either him or Ramos. I'd go Lalas. Also, David Beckham has to be on it. There is no way around it. The league completely changed after him. I don't care what your opinions of him are as a celebrity or soccer player, the change in this league before and after him is the most blatant thing. The last spot? Landon Donovan. I don't like the guy, but he has to be on there. He is the American soccer player. The league MVP is named after him. He won. A LOT. He's been in the league from the retraction days to the most modern era, just behind Atlanta's introduction.
I agree with most of this. Limiting it to Americans was Lalas’ keeping it consistent with Mt. Rushmore. I have no problem opening it up to Canadians, but I don’t agree that a Canadian MUST be one of the four. The group talked about how including foreign players, owners, coaches, etc... would change their four. Anyway, I posted because of the Rimando connection. I doubt any one of us would have otherwise seriously considered him. Lalas makes a good argument.
oh, don't get me wrong, i really enjoyed the way Lalas did it. Otherwise this was just a glorified way for Extra Time guys to talk about each team and say who were the top 4 players of the club. That seems to be their only measuring stick. The inclusion of Rimando, to me, was Lalas way of being Lalals: make noise. The Rushmore only American thing also was challenged, rightfully, by the Extra Time guys. George Washington was a British citizen. As was Jefferson. Further, that thing is a national monument. This thing is a (really dumb and fake) league monument. The league isn't limited to the US. Also, I misspoke before, it isn't between Ramos and Lalas for the "Birth" spot. It's between Lalas and Etcheverry. This comes down to an argument on was getting the thing going important, or were the first few years more important? Eddie Pope could go in here too, I suppose, but I don't hold him in the same regard. I'd put him in the Donovan category, honestly. It was weird to say that Lalas had 2 RSL players on there. Especially when neither of those two are the first RSL player you'd put up. Granted, Pope is never going to be remembered first as an RSL player. The first RSL player you'd think is KB, at least when using the American rationale. It shows the dynamic of the league vs team, I suppose. To be fair, Nicky is the consensus number 2 or 3 pick behind KB & Javi for RSL. Now, it's important to remember, Mt Rushmore doesn't feature a guy like Lafayette. To me, that is the most direct actual history comparison to David Beckham. Without him, this thing doesn't work. I'll still argue Beckham should be on there, but if you want to argue against me with that logic I'm going to have a hard time winning. Also, it is funny to hear the Extra Guys talk up a guy like Davies but ignore Tim Howard. Howard was sold to Manchester United when they were Ferguson's Manchester United. And it should serve as a warning about Davies. Sure, Davies is on fire now, but it's not like Howard was god awful for United. Further, Howard made a hell of a career for himself, just not at the level people were really hoping for. You could argue the same with Clint Dempsey. It's weird how fast they are to prop up Davies when there are guys with legitimate history that could easily slide in to their rationale and avoid the fear of being a complete bust. Also, this is where I slide in the fact that I was super critical of Herrera in 2018 when defending Davies. Yeah, man, I was off on that.