Roster for 2012

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by Soccer Doc, Oct 2, 2011.

  1. rkane1226

    rkane1226 Member+

    Apr 9, 2000
    Club:
    Stade Brestois 29
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My understanding of your (implied) plan: Keep a bunch of guys we already know are useless to fill out the roster and hope they might get better.

    My understanding of JW's plan: Get rid of the guys you know are useless and find new warm bodies that may be either a) also useless or b) actually good or "improvable."

    Personally, I favor jw's plan, as I understand it. I further believe that his plan is, in the absolute worst case, on par with yours. Why is keeping guys that have failed to mature into even quality bench MLS players over 2, 3 and sometimes 4 years a good idea?
     
  2. s0ccerguy

    s0ccerguy Member

    Mar 25, 2004
    I don't understand why you wouldn't keep Phelan and Schilawski. They're cheap, +/-60k, will bleed for the team, and at least is a great practice player. I know nobody sees them as starter's but I get the impression that their work ethic alone is why Nicol puts them on the field. Every team needs players to push the starting 11 whoever they may be.
     
  3. rkane1226

    rkane1226 Member+

    Apr 9, 2000
    Club:
    Stade Brestois 29
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because you get to the end of the season and they have played 1500 minutes (Phelan). There is nobody to push. He is a starter AND SN has a mancrush on him.
     
  4. LongDuckDong

    LongDuckDong Member+

    Jan 26, 2011
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For once, I agree with you :D

    WE can't just get rid of all of our depth. I'm ok with outright cutting 7 or 8 players, but to dismiss so many would be a horrid idea. There's a good chance we could pull a Toronto and bring in players that were worse than the ones we had before.

    We have to give some of our current players a chance to prove themselves against our new players. If they can't cut it, that's fine, but we need options.

    With that said, whoever our GM is should bring in as many players as possible in the off season. We definitely need an infusion of talent. I doubt we'll get much in January, even with ideal conditions (replace Burns and Nicol), but hopefully by July 2012, we'll have a decent squad.
     
  5. Soccer Doc

    Soccer Doc Member+

    Nov 30, 2001
    Keene, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think you misunderstand what I'm suggesting. I know we need a major infusion of talent and creation of quality depth. Where we may disagree is in our vision of whats possible be tween now and opening day 2012.

    IMO, trying to add 15 quality players in the offseason is almost impossible in MLS. I'm suggesting we add quality at the top to the max extent possible ( I think adding 5-7 quality players between draft, allocation and scouting is about max) and cut the bottom 5-7 players. It's obvious that many of current roster who have played major minutes are better suited to be depth back ups and some are just not at basic MLS ability level.

    IMO you can do a lot in an offseason but you can't scrap and replace half a roster unless your an expansion team with all the perks that are provided to a start up franchise. Lets remember, the Revs fortunes changed when Miami and TB were contracted and we got a windfall. Without that kind of exceptional circumstances a rebuilding process is much more difficult.
     
  6. cml1394

    cml1394 Member

    Apr 5, 2010
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well since Toronto made all those trades they've passed us in the standings while competing in the CCL as well as signing Frings and Koevermans so I don't understand why you think they got worse.
     
  7. Crooked

    Crooked Member+

    May 1, 2005
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    My work ethic is top notch too, sign me up! This is a professional sport, trying hard and caring doesn't cut it anymore.
     
  8. LongDuckDong

    LongDuckDong Member+

    Jan 26, 2011
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's just the thing. Phelan could be a great stable veteran in the reserve division and help the younger players in terms of experience in those games. The issue is that he's been used as a starter/sub for the senior team and he isn't anywhere near good enough. People literally hate him because he's a symbol of this team's lack of talent.
     
  9. LongDuckDong

    LongDuckDong Member+

    Jan 26, 2011
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I meant in the 2010-2011 off season. They definitely got worse. They unloaded practically their whole team and started over. The new players were more useless than the old ones.

    Since then, they've added better players.
     
  10. pwykes

    pwykes Member

    Apr 18, 1999
    Auburn, MA
    Yes, the second part was an attempt at humor/sarcasm. Here is the post back in April that indicated Nicol wasn't in favor of signing Benny:

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?p=23251795&highlight=nicol#post23251795

     
  11. cml1394

    cml1394 Member

    Apr 5, 2010
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh I thought you meant this season, that is 100% correct they got horrendously awful last offseason.
     
  12. cml1394

    cml1394 Member

    Apr 5, 2010
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  13. Soccer Doc

    Soccer Doc Member+

    Nov 30, 2001
    Keene, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You can spin that as Nicol as not wanting to sign Benny but I think that's a real over-reach. We don't know what other option(s) Nicol was looking at when Benny became available. The other two teams that passed were faced with the same issue. Both said they would like to add him but they didn't mesh with their other plan/options. With the Revs lack of success with signing players they had their eye on IMO it easily became a no-brainer to sign the bird (Benny) in a hand.
     
  14. rkane1226

    rkane1226 Member+

    Apr 9, 2000
    Club:
    Stade Brestois 29
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You had to mention contraction didn't you? That is about where we are. The REVs are perhaps worse than an expansion team because of the baggage they have. We're going round in circles and I think the fundamental problem is our positions on SN and Burns. If we replace them, I'd be more comfortable with your plan. But they won't be replaced. Since we will be applying the FMFAF scouting and recruiting plan, again, this winter, I say get rid of all of SN's far from starting quality pets (Phelan, Shil, Dube, Nyassi, Mansally).

    For anyone who doesn't remember: Five Monkeys F***ing a Football

    (Burns, Biello, Nicol, Jonathan and Bob))
     
  15. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Kinda like a no-brainer to apply for a lottery? Oh never mind.

    That's right, we're all reading wrong, but you're always right.
     
  16. Crooked

    Crooked Member+

    May 1, 2005
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    None of us are experienced professionals in this field. None of us have ever managed a sports franchise or coached a professional team. I have heard it all from him. Unfortunately, Michael Burns also isn't an experienced professional in this business. Any idiot would have entered the Saad lottery, but the Revs knew more than we did and withdrew their name. I'm glad they knew more than we did because the last thing we need is a young striker.
     
  17. cml1394

    cml1394 Member

    Apr 5, 2010
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just wanna clarify, I'm assuming there are 0 repercussions for entering that lottery and not winning correct? Like you don't move down the pecking order or something like that? I admittedly know next to nothing about the kind of lottery that occurred when Saad decided to play in MLS, and it makes no sense not to at least try to go for a young prolific college scorer if there isn't any kind of risk involved.
     
  18. Soccer Doc

    Soccer Doc Member+

    Nov 30, 2001
    Keene, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well I'll be dipped:eek:. And I though you were unteachable. I'm glad you finally understand the truth of things. :D

    Seriously, why does it bother you so much that someone might just see things differently than you? This is an OPINION board. Why do you get upset when I have a different opinion and am willing to defend my opinion? I've never suggested mine was the only opinion---just that it was my opinion.
     
  19. TheLostUniversity

    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Feb 4, 2007
    Greater Boston
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's just your opinion :D
     
  20. burud111

    burud111 Member

    Jul 20, 2007
    Connecticut
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Only risk is if you win, you can't enter any more lotteries. Of course, then you'd have Saad, and that's also assuming there would be more lotteries.
     
  21. cml1394

    cml1394 Member

    Apr 5, 2010
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Since so few of these happen I see absolutely no reason to not enter unless the player's salary is high, which I can't really imagine. Why not try to get a young up and coming player who has already established himself in college? Its not like so many of these lotteries happen that you can wait on other players you think more highly of. Sign them on a 2 year deal, see how they develop, and then make your decision after those 2 years. You could end up with a bust, or you could end up with a gem. But if you don't enter, you'll get nothing guaranteed. I don't get it.
     
  22. Crooked

    Crooked Member+

    May 1, 2005
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Exactly. That's what myself and many others on this board said when we passed not the Sonny Saad lottery. Saad was the leading scorer in D1 NCAA soccer the year prior but was coming to MLS after a failed attempt to sign with a club overseas. We passed on the opportunity to sign him, but were told by Soccer Doc that the Revs know more than we do, and that they had good reason for the decision. Saad has gone out to get some garbage minutes for a talented and deep SKC team; meanwhile, Schilawski, Mansally, and Dube still round out are striker options on the bench. Oh yeah, and Saad is making the minimum. This was just another abject failure by the Revs that the Kool-Aid Drinkers will blindly continue to defend.
     
  23. Balerion

    Balerion Member+

    Aug 5, 2006
    Roslindale, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Especially because this happened later in the season when any additional lotteries were unlikely.

    Saad impressively led the NCAA in scoring as a freshman, but he couldn't get MLS to bite on a GA contract during the offseason. Teams just felt that despite the goals, he wasn't ready. He's a poacher and that particular type of forward is hard to project at higher levels; often a player can be wildly successful at one level and then fail spectacularly at the next. Taylor Twellman was one such player: great in MLS, terrible for the US.

    So Saad tried his luck in Europe, blew his NCAA eligibility, couldn't get a contract, and came begging to MLS, who signed him to a league-minimum contract because he had no leverage whatsoever and he would have takers at that salary.


    Saad could be a special player or he could fade away. Chances are, getting Saad wouldn't dramatically change this franchise. But what harm could it have done? What's the problem with taking a low-risk, high-reward gamble? There's no downside.


    It's exactly the sort of on-the-margins incremental move that add up when you do a bunch of them. It's what the successful MLS teams do and what the Revs don't do.
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well if we had taken him, we couldn't apply for any of the future lotteries that took place this year.

    Wait, what's that you say?

    Yeah, next year will be different. All of a sudden our FO will figure out everything!
     
  25. Chaik

    Chaik Member

    Oct 18, 2001
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Multiple competitions? Since when have the Revs gave a shit about the Open Cup? Didn't you start a game this year at left back in the Open Cup?
     

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