Roster, Draft Picks, Allocations, Discoveries: What we know, how we know it. [N&A]

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by Knave, Nov 13, 2003.

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  1. JoeW

    JoeW New Member

    Apr 19, 2001
    Northern Virginia, USA
    #101 JoeW, Jan 20, 2004
    Except that last year we put in the first claim on Digi and when a second team expressed interest, it went to a lottery. So I don't know what the policy is.
     
  2. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    #102 Knave, Jan 20, 2004
    I don't believe we actually claimed him as a discovery. If you've got evidence to the contrary let me know and I'll stand corrected.
    My search of newspapers and the boards found nothing saying that DC United ever claimed DiGiamarino as a discovery. Again, correct me if I'm wrong. But I'd like to see some evidence.
     
  3. fatbastard

    fatbastard Member+

    Aug 1, 2003
    Lincoln (ish), Va
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #103 fatbastard, Jan 20, 2004
    wasn't there a weird one we were involved in with Cunningham, where we had put in a discovery pick for him, and a mystery pick had also been made by Columbus - and either theirs was 15 minutes before ours, or their record was worse, or something - and the league gave him to Cumblowus?
    I think with DiGi, if the league wasn't going to insist on a lottery (because he used to be in the league or some such bizarre reasoning), then we would have used a discovery pick on him, but we didn't when we learned it would be wasted.
     
  4. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    #104 Knave, Jan 20, 2004
    By the way, JoeW, this is your own account from way back when ...
     
  5. monster

    monster Member

    Oct 19, 1999
    Hanover, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #105 monster, Jan 20, 2004
    My understanding (I'll see if I can find something to back it up) was that DiGi was not allowed to be a discovery pick because of the unwritten "Lalas rule."

    People make fun of the Lalas discovery pick, but back then a discovery was basically anyone who wasn't in the league that didn't merit a fee. After that, people who left MLS, then returned were not allowed to be discoveries.

    I could be wrong on some or all of the points, but that was my understanding.
     
  6. owendylan

    owendylan Member

    May 30, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    #106 owendylan, Jan 20, 2004
    I thought that was Andy Williams or maybe Stern John, but yes that situation came up.
     
  7. Serie Zed

    Serie Zed Member

    Jul 14, 2000
    Arlington
    #107 Serie Zed, Jan 20, 2004
    I thought it was Andy Williams and that DC's fax was actually 15 minutes prior to the Crew's?

    Whatever, he was awarded to Columbus because, in the infamous words of Doug Logan, "DC already has enough good players."
     
  8. JoeW

    JoeW New Member

    Apr 19, 2001
    Northern Virginia, USA
    #108 JoeW, Jan 20, 2004
    First, MLS changes rules all the time so you could be right or (heavens forbid) there may even be a new rule (like the 3 discovery players for 2004!).

    Second, DCU discovered Mark Watson (a former MLS-er). Could be wrong but I thought we did the same thing with Aunger after Rongen had cut him from NE. I thought Chicago did that with Vaudreil (after he was out of the league).

    What may have complicated things with Lalas was that he "retired" (so a team gave up rights to him) and then unretired and was discovered. All of those other players (Digi, Watson, Aunger, Vaudreil, etc.) were active and played overseas or in the A-league after their first MLS stint.

    And yes, Serie Zed is correct--it was Andy Williams. I thought it was more than 15 minutes gap. Eventually the rationalization (at least publicly) was that DCU's record was better. The humor of it all though is that Columbus than put in a claim for a player later and they lost him b/c their record was better than the competing team. Fitzgerald (who had publicly defended the Andy Williams deal as saying that is how teams in all US sports did it--by reverse record) then had a public hissy fit claiming the league was shafting Columbus and had never made the policy clear to begin with.

    And Knave, I don't think we every publicly claimed Digi as a discovery. I thought we were ready to do so and then the league put the kibosh on it.
     
  9. Haig

    Haig Member+

    May 14, 2000
    METROSTARS
    Club:
    --other--
    #109 Haig, Jan 21, 2004
    DiGiamarino was on Bob Bradley's radar in November 2002. The fact that DiGi happened to train with DC prior to his training with the Metros was an issue of circumstance. It was a logistical issue, and DiGi was scheduled to train with the Metros (the other team interested in him) before he showed up for a look in DC. Somehow this got distorted into a story about how DC filed a discovery claim originally but the league devised a way of putting DiGi on the Metros, one of those myths that has legs because it promotes that tired claptrap about DC's persecution at the hands of the Metro-leaning MLS office. Don't believe it.
     
  10. DigitalTron

    DigitalTron New Member

    Apr 4, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    #110 DigitalTron, Jan 21, 2004
    Honestly though Haig, the second MLS announced it would be a weighted lottery, was there even a single non-Metro fan in the world that didn't know that meant he was going to be awarded to the Metros? I think the point made there goes to the fact that by putting it in a lottery, it had the same effect as simply awarding him to the Metros, which circumvents whatever flimsy logic MLS had been using at that time. I'm certainly not defending MLS procedures, just noting the effect-driven mechanism.

    -Digital
     
  11. monster

    monster Member

    Oct 19, 1999
    Hanover, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #111 monster, Jan 21, 2004
    I didn't think that meant he was going to the Metros. And I'm a DC fan. Because at that point, the Metros had as much success at lotteries as the Dallas Burn, who we all know is such a favorite of MLS HQ's schemes.
     
  12. Haig

    Haig Member+

    May 14, 2000
    METROSTARS
    Club:
    --other--
    #112 Haig, Jan 21, 2004
    No, the question was "didn't DC try, or plan to try, to acquire DiGiamarino as a discovery player." And the answer is "no."

    But since we're off topic: why is Thiago Martins still on DC's roster, if he was acquired as a stopgap replacement for an injured player? (Never mind, don't answer that.)
     
  13. Lanky134

    Lanky134 New Member

    Oct 25, 1999
    134, 3, 6
    #113 Lanky134, Jan 21, 2004
    No. Aunger was acquired via the old Supplemental Draft.

    http://www.mlsnet.com/archive/superdraft_1998.html
     
  14. ButlerBob

    ButlerBob Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 13, 2001
    Evanston, IL
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #114 ButlerBob, Jan 21, 2004
    Haydon Woodworth

    Is there any chance that last year's draft pick Haydon Woodworth will get a invite to camp. He had a nice season with Charlotte in the A-League. In college he playd in midfield, but in Charlotte he turned into a nice outside back that could nicely come forward.
     
  15. tmas

    tmas Member

    Dec 30, 2002
    #115 tmas, Jan 21, 2004
    Re: Haydon Woodworth

    Good to know he had success, but since he wasn't Nowak's pick I'm not sure Peter will even know about him. But we still do own his rights.
     
  16. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    #116 Knave, Jan 27, 2004
    From USSoccerUK: http://www.ussocceruk.com/USsoccerUK_Forum/thread-view.asp?threadid=1399&posts=7

    MLS 2004 International Transfer Windows
    • January 1 until March 31 - (the “primary window”)
    • August 15 until September 15 - (the “secondary window”)
    Key Dates on the 2004 MLS Competition Calendar
    • Monday, January 19 - Domestic Discovery Period Begins
    • Monday, March 1 - Roster / Salary Budget Compliance
    • Thursday, March 4 - Waiver Draft via Conference Call
    • Saturday, April 3 - Regular Season Commences
    • Tuesday, June 1 - College Protected List Finalized
    • Friday, June 25 - Contracts guaranteed for 2004 season
    • Saturday, July 24 - MLS All-Star Game
    • Saturday, October - 16 End of Regular Season
    • Sunday, November - 14 MLS Cup 2004
     
  17. Flying Weasel

    Flying Weasel Member

    Mar 22, 2001
    Harrisburg, PA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #117 Flying Weasel, Jan 28, 2004
    Re: Hayden Woodworth

    I've heard that Hayden Woodworth has been invited back to D.C. United's pre-season camp starting February 2. He also has received interest from several other MLS teams. It's still a long-shot for him to make the team (or any other team), but it seems he's getting another shot at it, and that's all he can ask for.
     
  18. shawn12011

    shawn12011 Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Reisterstown, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #118 shawn12011, Jan 28, 2004

    These numbers are based upon Ridge Mahoney's article in the Januray 26, 2004 edition of Soccer America. His source is reported to be the players union.


    Players Salary Cap Numbers

    Adu, Freddy $280K ($500K) (P-40)
    Alegria, Jose $27,783
    Barclay, Devin $83,917 (P-40)
    Carroll, Brian $34K (P-40)
    Cerritos, Ronald $162K
    Convey, Bobby $143K
    Eskandarian, Alecko $80,500 (P-40)
    Kovalenko, Dema $176K
    Martins, Thiago $32,500
    Namoff, Bryan $27,780
    Nelsen, Ryan $90,554
    Olsen, Ben $161K
    Petke, Mike $165K
    Prideaux, Brandon $69,050
    Quaranta, Santino $95K
    Quintanilla, Eliseo $54K
    Reyes, Milton $112,650
    Rimando, Nick $86K
    Stewart, Earnie $280K ($285K)
    Stokes, David $30,850 (P-40)
    Warren, Doug $25,200

    Draft Picks

    Kevin Ara
    Josh Gros
    Kevin Hudson


    That totals $1,707,517. With the cap reported to be $1,730,000 United is under the salary cap according to these numbers by $22,483.
     
  19. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    #119 Knave, Jan 30, 2004
  20. fatbastard

    fatbastard Member+

    Aug 1, 2003
    Lincoln (ish), Va
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #120 fatbastard, Jan 30, 2004
    Re: Re: Hayden Woodworth

    Speaking of cool-named ex-DC tryouts, whatever happened to Caleb Norkus?
     
  21. Lanky134

    Lanky134 New Member

    Oct 25, 1999
    134, 3, 6
    #121 Lanky134, Jan 30, 2004
  22. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    #122 Knave, Mar 13, 2004
    ... The Most Arcane Thread Ever Returns ...

    :: Updated :: April 29, 2004 ::

    Coach

    Head Coach :: Peter Nowak
    Assistant Coach :: Tom Soehn
    Assistant Coach :: Mark Simpson

    Roster :: 24 Maximum :: 22 Currently ::

    Code:
    [size=2]
Perkins, Troy		DEV

Adu, Freddy		P-40
Carroll, Brian		P-40
Eskandarian, Alecko	P-40
Stokes, David		P-40

Ara, Kevin		SEN
Convey, Bobby		SEN
Gros, Joshua		SEN
Namoff, Bryan		SEN
Olsen, Ben		SEN
Petke, Mike		SEN
Prideaux, Brandon	SEN
Quaranta, Santino	SEN
Stewart, Earnie		SEN
Rimando, Nick		SEN
Warren, Doug		SEN

Cerritos, Ronald	SEN, GC
Kovalenko, Dema		SEN, GC
Martins, Thiago 	SEN, GC

Quintanilla, Eliseo	SEN, DISC, T-I

Moreno, Jaime		SEN, S-I
Nelsen, Ryan		SEN, S-I

[/size]
    Roster Key

    DEV = Developmental (DEV + P-40 = 6 players min & max)
    P-40 = Project 40 (P-40 + DEV = 6 players min & max)
    DISC = Discovery Player (4 players max, may add max 2 per year)
    GC = Green Card
    SEN = Counts against the senior roster (18 players max)
    S-I = Senior International (3 players max)
    T-I = Transitional International (20 players max league wide)
    ???? = In limbo. Likely will sign, but hasn't yet officially.

    Note 1 :: We have 22 players. 5 are roster protected, and 17 are senior team.

    Note 2 :: We have space for 1 more roster protected player and 1 more senior player. That senior player may be a senior international player.

    Note 3 :: According to Steven Goff (email, not a story) we do not have money to pay for that last senior spot rendering it virtually moot.

    Note 4 :: Nana Kuffour (18 year old midfielder from Ghana) is expected to sign a developmental contract once his paperwork is finalized. With that addition DC United will max out its roster protected spots.

    Draft Picks

    :: 2005 ::

    1st Round :: Natural pick. Also note 2.
    2nd Round :: To KC for 2004 24th pick (Ara). Also note 2.
    3rd Round :: To KC for 2004 24th pick (Ara). Also note 2.
    4th Round :: Natural pick.
    5th Round :: Natural pick.
    6th Round :: Natural pick.

    Note 1 :: The 2004 24th pick was originally our natural pick. It was dealt to KC as part of the deal that brought Quintanilla to DC United. The pick was then traded back to us on draft day for our natural 2nd and 3rd round picks in 2005. Hence, it's now effectively as if the Quintanilla deal was for the 2005 2nd and 3rd round picks.

    Note 2 :: See the future considerations section below. According to Steven Goff "If Moreno plays in 20 of 30 regular season games, the MetroStars will receive United's first-round pick. Otherwise, they would get a second- or third-round pick."

    Note 3 :: DC United may owe San Jose a conditional 2005 draft pick for Devin Barclay. It is unknown what the conditions were, and whether those conditions were met.

    Allocations

    Officially we have no allocations. It’s presumed that we will get one for Etcheverry, but it will almost certainly (95% positive) go to Dallas for the future considerations we owe them for the number one overall draft pick.

    Discoveries

    We currently have one on the roster and we can get up to two more in 2004.

    Earlier reports suggesting the number of discoveries a team can make per year has increased by one to three appear to have been erroneous according to the now published 2004 MLS player classification regulations.

    However, teams now have unlimited discovery opportunities for developmental players.

    As it is there remains considerable debate about how much money we have available to us to use towards transfer fees etc. See page 2 of this thread. There's also some suggestion that the money has been increased. Going on the old information, these are the basics as best as I can determine. Teams have $100K to use as transfer fees on discovery players. A team can use up to three years worth of fees at one time (a special discovery). Unspent money is lost. DCUnited used 2002, 2003 and 2004's transfer money to acquire Reyes. Whether we now have the 2005 and 2006 money available is uncertain. However, on occasion alternative arrangements can be made. Q2 was a special discovery and playing a friendly against his old team paid a portion of his transfer fee. Suffice it to say nobody really knows how these work or what our current discovery situation is.

    Future Considerations

    Note 1 :: The Columbus Crew owe DC United future considerations for Devin Barclay.

    Note 2 :: Future considerations owed by DC United to Dallas for 2004 SuperDraft first overall pick.

    Note 3 :: Future considerations owed by DC United to the MetroStars for the rights to Jaime Moreno. According to Steven Goff, "If Moreno plays in 20 of 30 regular season games, the MetroStars will receive United's first-round pick. Otherwise, they would get a second- or third-round pick."

    Note 4 :: Future considerations owed by Dallas to DC United for the rights to Milton Reyes. According to DCUnited.com "Additional considerations will apply if Reyes is added to the 2004 final roster for Dallas."


    Useful Links

    DC United Transactions: http://www.dcunited.com/index.cfm?section=tradition&cont_id=94152
    MLS Regulations: http://www.mlsnet.com/about/regulations/
    DC United Roster (DCUnited.com): http://www.dcunited.com/index.cfm?section=team&cont_id=roster&roster_id=15
    DC United Roster (MLSNet): http://www.mlsnet.com/teams/rosters/dc.html
    Key Dates on the 2004 MLS Competition Calendar: https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=2070423#post2070423
    ...

    I will update this post/thread as more information becomes available and as corrections and additions are made.
     
  23. terp fan

    terp fan New Member

    Nov 21, 2000
    #123 terp fan, Mar 13, 2004
    Re: ... The Most Arcane Thread Ever Returns ...

    I read the other day that two rookies were signed (to developmental deals I think?) so I assume you need to update the roster.


    Mod's Note :: Just fixed a formatting problem.
     
  24. Lanky134

    Lanky134 New Member

    Oct 25, 1999
    134, 3, 6
    #124 Lanky134, Mar 13, 2004
    Re: Re: ... The Most Arcane Thread Ever Returns ...

    Only Perkins was signed to a Development contract. Gros and Ara were added to the 18-man roster.

    http://www.dcunited.com/index.cfm?section=main&cont_id=232372
     
  25. tmas

    tmas Member

    Dec 30, 2002
    #125 tmas, Mar 14, 2004
    Anyone heard about those two guys we had/have on trial, Henriquez and Rojas? Last I heard they were subs in the game vs. Atlas. Potentially we could sign both but I would think we would sign one to a developmental contract and leave the full roster spot open for later, just in case something happens.
     
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