Roster 2022

Discussion in 'Houston Dynamo' started by slycat, Nov 11, 2021.

  1. quiznatodd_bidness

    Houston Dynamo
    United States
    Apr 14, 2020
     
    TX Bill, Brian Gilchriest and *rey* repped this.
  2. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    “We were talking on Monday, they told me about the project,” Ferreira said. “I really liked the idea because the club is undergoing reconstruction. I hope I can help, the club wants to return to that top tier in the league, it is very ambitious. I hope to respond to the confidence they are giving me, return all that on the pitch with goals.”

    it's nice talk but at a point it ticks over to concrete execution and whether the coaching and GM and players and resources are capable of it.

    and in my experience people driven like this, with previous history of success, will also be charting whether they think it's headed where you're selling. they will be able to tell. you do this you have to keep delivering. the coach has to be good. the next signings need to help. if people need to get lost to make it happen, we have to do that.
     
  3. DonJuego

    DonJuego Member+

    Aug 19, 2005
    Austin, TX
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ^^ 100% agree. Says a lot positive about Onstad's ability to sell our project.
     
  4. quiznatodd_bidness

    Houston Dynamo
    United States
    Apr 14, 2020
    Brian Gilchriest repped this.
  5. Varus

    Varus Member

    Feb 5, 2015
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Well bravo! Onstad has some of the old Dom decisiveness in him that we’ve sorely been missing.

    I’m so used to us twiddling our fingers on these type of deals that I honestly didn’t see this coming.

    This type of stuff is really best for both the team and the player. We don’t need to hold onto him and suffer for it and he doesn’t need his career to stall here. We tried, it didn’t work out, no hard feelings, better luck elsewhere.
     
  6. *rey*

    *rey* Member+

    Feb 22, 2006
    Houston
    YES!

    ive been saying this for years. we’ve become the club where careers come to die and that’s the stupidest thing ever. the only thing that develops is resentment that a player never recovers from.
     
    Westside Cosmo repped this.
  7. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jordan’s insecurity made us hold on to players so he could be “proven right” rather than dealing with a mistake early and moving on. Look, for all of Bill Belichicks success, he’s had a lot of bad draft picks and cuts them rather than hoping they get better
     
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  8. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    i've been saying this for weeks (before any of you were). sell. surplus. sucky. players. i am sure some team someplace, maybe in their home country, will pay a nominal sum for your trash. his re-loan plus what followed suggests it never quite worked and he was happier back there.

    they get the player, you get to say they were sold for a fee (kicking the wrinkled old $5 under the sofa), and you clear roster room.

    i have a long list (including lundkvist and hadebe) but this one is beyond debate and clears an international slot. carrasquilla we don't own but he's not very good either, end the loan. as some are saying we usually just passively time serve. you can speed things up. he's not worth buying. return to sender. QED. even if we paid a fee for a year. write if off as dumb business. are we a soccer team or a Macy's. soccer teams try to rework themselves to get better, even if they eat a little financial crow. Macy's is going to discuss their clearly printed return policy and loss prevention.

    voila. 3 slots. in biz-ness. i have a list and we can really change this up.

    a-efffing-men.
     
  9. quiznatodd_bidness

    Houston Dynamo
    United States
    Apr 14, 2020
    1484515281171062784 is not a valid tweet id
     
  10. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    also over-valuation. i think sometimes it was give it another year and play for time on accountability. maybe we forget who signed them or focus on the player instead of the GM. but i also think he was promising financial returns. he wanted to wait another window to be proven right on the values. in the real world it was always a window too late.

    i say this because a soccer team has to take some "cubo" hits and not get gunshy or greedy. like this player needs to go for soccer reasons regardless the cost. this wanders into resources because i think the green lampshades are out when we talk players in and out. a team that wants to improve needs to get that for soccer purposes maybe that sucky swede or lousy argentine just needs to go home to improve the team. best offer even if it's lousy.

    basically i think jordan so over-valued players he couldn't get the auction started to get above the lowball starting offers. he'd be so miffed at not gettiing $8m he'd blow off the people offering $6m and not get them bidding each other up.

    it's penny saving pound foolish stuff. if the idea is he cost x amount in fee in and it feels bad to burn that. and we won't make it up on fee out. well, consider that if the team ever gets good maybe we make the money on merch and tickets when it becomes worth watching again. as well as added CCL and playoff and cup games. we sell more tickets for the schedule. we advance deeper into events and have more games. pays for itself. comparing fee in to fee out is narrow. the idea is getting rid of player x is revenue enhancing.

    last thought, unless we're becoming super spendy, i'd shift back to kinnear's loan model on the riskier acquisitions. we got elis on loan. i think that's a smarter way of managing the downside risk on a budget. now, the top notch buys may have to be transfers. but take some of the others on loan and be more rigorous about who gets purchase optioned. we got to a point it basically became layaway or we just bought. that's taking on all the risk, and jordan was a really dumb GM taking those risks.
     
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  11. Varus

    Varus Member

    Feb 5, 2015
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Skeptical about signing a 34 year old. Are we getting a Sanchez here or a Senderos? We already have an aging Quintero.

    That’s like a one year rental guy on a team that’s years out from making a Cup push.
     
    *rey* repped this.
  12. Brian Gilchriest

    Eintracht Frankfurt
    United States
    Oct 3, 2020
    I don't disagree, but I'll take talent in any way/shape/form we can get it. If we have a younger option, let's go get it instead. This guy is on a free, if he wants to come here and is reasonably priced, just do it.

    I'd love to see them go after Shaq Moore who apparently is looking for a loan stint in MLS. That dude would be a great piece here.
     
    Westside Cosmo repped this.
  13. Dynamo_Forever

    Dynamo_Forever Member+

    Aug 9, 2007
    Clear Lake, TX
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A Brazilian born ex Ukrainian International .....man there can't be too man people checking those boxes. So we're considering a player that wanted to return to Brazil but received no other offers.....hopefully we get him cheap and he out performs expectations.
     
  14. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    we. need. a. 10. we. have. a. jillion. wingers. we. extended. quintero. literally redundant of darwin down to age. is the idea one of them gets to pretend to be a 10 a la brad? are we ever going to learn the dero lesson? ever since then we've tried either 8s or making do with holden/cameron/davis, who were playing out of position and all usually topped out at about 6 assists. ever since then we've not won cups. can we ever get a real 10? that's what this supercharged forward line deserves.

    i also really don't like baking this much age into the cake. repeats the 2017 mistake. particularly if resources may be transient this should be built for a longer timeframe. not interested in repeating the pattern where we slap something together that in key places has maybe a year left, if that, where even if the kids work out great they are stuck with the old farts when they blow up in a year (or less). which is what happened 2018. backs got old, no defense. all that offense wasted because of baking in the 30 year old defenders.

    this needs a longer competitive horizon, particularly if i am skeptical where the next splurge comes from. bring people in with 5 years left. this sounds like they think this is The Year and it's not. not unless the defense is fixed and the mids upgraded. this is not cherry on top time.

    based on the amount of his transfer fee -- and i know this is a free but just using that as a guide -- he might want DP money. based on his last season not worth it.

    now if he'd come play here for pennies to hang out with nagamura, a la figueroa hanging with the hondurans, sure. then go sign me a real 10 and move some of the winger pile. and keep opening international slots.
     
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  15. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    re quintero specifically, this is where i feel like our insecurity blanket continuity reflex bites us. all the buy downs and slot trades come off like a team recoiling from the practical constraints posed by our sleepwalking rubber stamping of old deals for more years. we spent the first half of the winter half asleep doing silliness. we're now doing some january things but some of them already sound like fixing december stuff. the one page thing again. nagamura knows a guy who sounds like a quintero clone. maybe he comes cheaper. our reflex put quintero in his spot already. we're still kind of in the doing then undoing then redoing business a little. get on one page. we don't need 50 wings. we don't need this extension then buy down then slot trade stuff.
     
  16. DonJuego

    DonJuego Member+

    Aug 19, 2005
    Austin, TX
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This acquisition does not concern me, but does not excite me either. Veteran leadership is needed. Profile does not suggest a difference maker but if he just helps Nagamura out as a leader in the locker room that will be good.
     
  17. DynamoManiac

    DynamoManiac Member+

    Jan 27, 2014
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Cheaper is probably a bit hopeful. The contract he just rolled off of was rumored at $1.6 million per year. Age wise he's due a reduction, but doubt he takes a massive reduction. Quintero was on $1.3 mil last year. Fair to assume he has gone down a bit on his new contract. We know he is over $612k since he's a TAM player. My guess is ultimately they'd be about the same, Marlos maybe a little higher.
     
  18. Ethos

    Ethos Member+

    Houston Dynamo
    Apr 28, 2019
    Houston
    I do agree with Juve, we have a bunch of wingers and we really do need a 10. I'll take an aging 10 that's good, an aging winger just doesn't seem to add up. I would take an aging 6 over another winger.
     
  19. Brian Gilchriest

    Eintracht Frankfurt
    United States
    Oct 3, 2020
    Marlos has been playing AM, RW, and LW all fairly consistently over the last 4 years.
     
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  20. Westside Cosmo

    Westside Cosmo Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    H-Town
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Follow up reporting on Ferreira from Athletic

    “Some additional clarity on that subject: According to multiple sources, Houston paid Paraguayan club Libertad a transfer fee of around $5 million for the 23-year-old Ferreira, who will be paid a salary north of $1 million in MLS. One of the sources said that the fee is actually slightly less than the one that was paid for Erick “Cubo” Torres when he was acquired by Houston from Chivas in December 2014. The source said that the combined fee and salary the Dynamo committed to Ferreira will end up as more than the combined fee and salary the club paid to Torres, whose salary with Houston maxed out at $695,000 in 2017.”
     
  21. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    https://www.transfermarkt.us/marlos/leistungsdaten/spieler/68778

    you're misapplying my "well he has played there before" analysis, because this is not "maybe we can try something within the roster," where any experience helps, this is a transfer signing, no commitment yet, where one should be concerned with optimization.

    he's played 44 games AM with 6G 7A. that's more than a MLS season. those aren't even geoff cameron AM numbers and he was a very meh converted AM.

    if you look close at his numbers you can see where his productivity on the right wing -- forward or mid -- is like a goal or assist every 2 games, while his productivity centrally is like a goal or assist every 4 games.

    for comparison's sake, while i was not a brad davis AM fan, because it weakened wing play, his productivity didn't change wide or central, goal or assist every other game either way. my point on marlos is per the stats you can already see where he might struggle with a transition.

    you might get away with theorizing it if he never did it but he has about 40 games saying not so much. surely we can sign a specialist AM who projects out at better than martinez or cameron numbers at AM ie 5G 5A per season. it'd be a slight upgrade on corona, but if we have to pay anything serious for this, surely we can do better than that.

    now if he's willing to come play for $150k, Figueroa Retirement Plan, those are ok numbers, and if they move bajamich that's another slot for someone more serious with DP $. and they should then move some people onward to reflect that much more surplus.

    personally just not very enthused with this one. want younger, want 10. we need a starting AM before we need a sanchez off the bench or a backup wing.
     
  22. Varus

    Varus Member

    Feb 5, 2015
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Veteran leadership just doesn’t jive with me. There’s a lot of vets in here. Valentin, Parker, Quintero, Picault, Corona, Cerén.

    Even some of the younger guys aren’t spring chickens. Vera, Memo and Lundkvist have been around.

    If they’re bringing him in Id hope it’s because they think he can ball.
     
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  23. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    my theory on marlos assumed the friends and family rate. someone said he's friends with nagamura. like he comes here and plays for peanuts relative to his resume like figueroa did. if he wants full compense he was an $8m transfer a few years back and even though the'd be "free" agree with your assessment on salary.

    to me it's redundant of quintero on down to the same age risk, and if it consumes a DP is a bad deal. he doesn't scream set the world on fire like ferreira might. he screams "ok," ends our DP shopping with only 1 good one. the ceiling on this as a whole wouldn't be very high. maybe barely playoffs.

    maybe people justify it as let's try and slap something together and just barely make the playoffs, can we just do that, but that feels like the o'brien texans before it imploded, or us in 2017. i don't like shortcuts that just patch things a year for modest success then you have to decide year 2 whether to double down on age or blow up what you just did -- which to me often results in teams going with age and it falls apart. we just signed a 23 year old forward DP to go with a 26 year old defensive DP, they should be building around that focus as opposed to 34 y/o quintero or fafa or that end of the spectrum.

    also there is no onward transfer value in going old fart.

    build for 5 years. how long was this rico and davis' team?
     
  24. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    "veteran" in and of itself, meh. 2017, age issues aside, how many of those guys they brought in were league winners, award winners. olimpia, saprissa, LAG at the time. here is how you win games. those players might in and of themselves grasp how to get a result to a whistle, and perhaps teach it as well. the former is as important as the latter. i think we overrate the value of, say, mike bradley's involvement with the 2019 NT. a lot of their failures seemed to be him and the other DMs. they got better when they went adams. i don't see where that ever rubbed off.

    i still think age was the ticking suitcase within the 2017 team where it's like, does a younger team have a better chance with seattle, does a younger team keep doing things until the 2020s as opposed to just one season. personally i think you don't need more than a guy or 2 who can pass on the veteran dark arts.

    i'd be dubious anyone on the already existing team has those powers or we wouldn't have been dead last.
     
  25. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    i also don't think you can plan team leadership. people respond to who they like or looks out for them. people respond to the ones that motivate them. my college experience our decorated but aloof captain was appointed, not who we'd have voted for, not motivational or that effective as a leader. won all sorts of personal stuff but it didn't translate as a leader. leader would have been our keeper or one of the other field players who were universally beloved, commanded attention and respect, and would back us up to the refs. it's a balancing act of fire (getting refs to pay attention) and ice (keeping the team in line). just being the older player with a resume isn't enough. affection, a sense they'll go argue for you to the officials and coach.

    that and i think the idea of a quasi-player-coach is a crock because it's usually an excuse for a player losing their skills. "well, but he can help his teammates..." people said that about ching at the end.

    help us? not as much as someone who can do their job right, sorry. if their advice is valuable retire and make them a coach.

    also, it's not a bunch of kids who need maturity and education in the dark arts of soccer. it's a fairly veteran unit as it is.
     

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