I'm at work so I could only see the goal replays but a few interesting things about the goals. On the first goal, Rooney is wide open because Park (who made the pass to Berbatov) kept his run going. The defender moved to close down Park and left Rooney alone. Good work by Park. On the second goal, Rooney feinted going near post and then drifted to the far post. I'm not sure how much effect that had on the defender but, again, Rooney was left alone. One the third goal, Owen was instrumental in preventing West Ham from getting out of their own half. Then, he noticed that the West Ham defender was down as he made his way towards the box. He got what he deserved. Its impossible for me to say more until I watch the match except for one more thing. Just like Ronaldo two seasons ago (but not at that level), at some point everyone has to stop trying to rationalize why Rooney is scoring so many goals. Its easy to say that the defense is crap or he's finishing from inside three feet. Not all of Ronaldo's goals two seasons ago were blasts from 40 yards either. At some point, the sheer amount of goals speaks for itself.
Re: Manchester United vs West Ham 2/23/10 [R] VR sighting! Good comparison to Ronaldo's goalscoring run.
Re: Manchester United vs West Ham 2/23/10 [R] I agree that to an extent, Rooney's run might be beyond explanation. However, I do not think it is fair to compare him to Ronaldo's zenith. Rooney is playing as our only goal scorer. Ronaldo was our primary goal scorer, but there were 3 major scoring threats in almost all our games last year. Rooney's goal scoring, given his weaknesses is amazing; moreso than Ronaldo's. But I wouldn't compare the two efforts because Ronaldo's came while he was playing at his absolute best, wheras Rooney is playing well, and of late, finishing better and benefiting from being the only consistent scoring option.
Re: Manchester United vs West Ham 2/23/10 [R] I agree. Rooney's performance so far is more impressive than was Ronaldo's.
Re: Manchester United vs West Ham 2/23/10 [R] On the flip side Ronaldo had better service and more space do namely to Wayne Rooney. Rooney is doing this very much by himself to a large extent. That in itself makes this even greater then what Ronaldo did.
Re: Manchester United vs West Ham 2/23/10 [R] That was me That's the thing, Rooney has been in really good form for almost 2 months. Ronaldo was in really good form for 2.5 seasons. Rooney's numbers make it seem as though he's in world beating form, but that's really only been the case the last 10 games or so. He's scored a lot of goals because he's been the only option and his finishing (in anything other than 1v1) has been good. But there's a GULF in difference between the quality of play over the course of the season.
Re: Manchester United vs West Ham 2/23/10 [R] If it's well taken in, I think you may have just won the lottery, johno.
Re: Manchester United vs West Ham 2/23/10 [R] Your wearing rose tinted glasses when it comes to Ronnie there. He was not in "good form" until midway through 06/07. He didn't even come alive in 08/09 until April. What made Ronaldo the world's best player wasn't just what he did when he was flying high, but what he did when he was playing below his level. He continued to score. That is what Rooney dd the first half of this season. Funny enough the first half of this season for Rooney was probably better then any Ronaldo had for us. He was a notoriously slow starter, not picking up his pace until the holidays. Kind of like Rooney this season. Rooney's "good play" is effected by those around him. You say he is the only scoring option like it is a good thing. All that means is teams are going to focus on him more and more. Ronaldo had Rooney, Saha and Tevez to take some of that responsibility off his back. We could also bring up Rooney's play for England which has pretty much been unparalleled since Capello showed up.
Re: Manchester United vs West Ham 2/23/10 [R] Totally agree Amdrag - What is impressive about what Wazza is doing right now is that he doesn't have to support CR7 had. People forget that Rooney was either #1 or #2 in assists for the past 3 years. Much of Rooneys efforts over the past couple of years were dedicated to helping Ronaldo. It remains to be seen how good Rooney is, barring any injuries he will win the golden boot this year. If we bolster our roster over the summer he will only get better in his new role as he will have better service. IMO Wayne is the best all around player in the world, he does everything well people used to be critical of his heading, not anymore. He isnt the best attacker in the world but at 24 he certainly can develop into the best.
Re: Manchester United vs West Ham 2/23/10 [R] Nonsense, Ronaldo was the best of the three amigos from the minute they were assembled. Had Rooney and Tevez not missed a truckload of sitters we might have had 3 players with 20 + goals in one season. Ronaldo's assist numbers were off the charts the year before his best season too. When it comes to scoring goals (not necessarily playing great, but scoring lots of goals as an individual), being the only option IS a good thing. See Van Nistelrooy, Ruud. That plays out in almost every team sport too. There are more shots, more opportunities for the star/scorer on crap teams than there are on great teams. I may be slightly biased towards Ronnie, but I've given Rooney credit where he deserves it. To even mention Rooney's overall form this season in the same sentence with Ronaldo's form at his best is ludicrous. For all Rooney's good play, he's not scoring any goals he shouldn't score. When was the last time he dribbled a defender and scored? Scored from outside the box? I suggest you go look at some highlights of the last few years if you think Rooney's form is on Ronaldo's level. That's almost laughable - except that it is understandable since Rooney is all we have now so it makes sense to make him larger than life.
Re: Manchester United vs West Ham 2/23/10 [R] I think people here are getting carried away a bit. Both Rooney and United as a club for that matter have inflated goal numbers as a result of thrashing Hull, Pompey, West Ham and Wigan (Rooney has scored 15 and United have scored 33 against just 4 teams). Ronaldo got the reputation he did by actually scoring consistently against all teams including consitently in europe; with a highlight reel package of goals to match.
Re: Manchester United vs West Ham 2/23/10 [R] Thank you. Ronnie notched what 10 goals in Europe one season?
Re: Manchester United vs West Ham 2/23/10 [R] ^^ yep. He is also the top scorer this season. I just saw benni's link from the other thread which reinforces the same point. Drogba has won Chelsea a lot more points than Rooney for us despite missing the league for a month for the ANC. Ronaldo in 07-08 won us something like 60% of our wins iirc.
Re: Manchester United vs West Ham 2/23/10 [R] Yeah, I even forgot about that, but Ronnie often was the only scorer in many of our 2-0 wins. Even the bigger wins sometimes came after he broke the resolve by scoring first.
Re: Manchester United vs West Ham 2/23/10 [R] Is there anyone who is going to take the trouble to actually research anything in comparing Rooney's season to Ronaldo's? I'll admit to intentionally tweaking the Ronaldo fanboys but this is starting to turn into a string of baseless statements.
Re: Manchester United vs West Ham 2/23/10 [R] If you insist. Seeing as Johno was bigging up Ronaldo's 10 goals in Europe one season (it was actually 8) I decided to take a closer look. Rooney's scored 2 goals in 186 minutes in Europe this season @ 93min per goal. Ronaldo had scored 5 in 540 minutes at the same stage of the competition @ 108 minutes per goal in 07/08. Therefore, when Rooney is on the pitch he's clearly a more dangerous player.
Re: Manchester United vs West Ham 2/23/10 [R] I just looked up Ronaldo's great 2007-08 season. United won 39 games that season in all relevant competitions, not including the Champions League final which, of course, did not have a winning goal. (That is, unless the goal was to make John Terry cry, in which case Poetic Justice would get credit for the winning goal.) By the way, my definition of winning goal is the goal that ultimately provided the winning margin. Some may use the goal that put a team ahead to stay and that is also fair. I just don't have time to check it. During Ronaldo's amazing scoring season, he scored the winner in an astonishing 49% of the matches. It broke down as 44% in the Premier League, 56% in the Champions League and 67% in the FA Cup. Rooney would clearly have a long way to go to match that. That being said, Ronaldo did have it a bit easier in the squad from two years ago, not that this alone can explain 42 goals. Edit: I looked at this season and I come up with 10 game winning goals for Rooney, nine of which were in the Premier League, which is 47% of the Premier League wins. Of course, someone should check my numbers.
Re: Manchester United vs West Ham 2/23/10 [R] Or if they took the penalties. Still remember when Tevez was on a hat trick and Ronaldo still took the penalty, the match already over. Not really true. Ruud scored more when we had more attacking options. His best season scoring season came the season Scholes had his best ever (20), Giggs had his third best (14), Beckham had (11) and Ole had (15). With Beckham gone and Ole out most of the season, Ruud's goal tally was cut in third the next season. And that is why you are making little sense. You are expecting Rooney's overall form to match Ronaldo's absolute best, which was not a season long event. Rooney is going to have to close strong to match 07/08, but if he does I still don't think you would give him credit.
Re: Manchester United vs West Ham 2/23/10 [R] Yes, Ronaldo scored 20 penalties that season. FFS that's the dumbest argument I've heard in a while, considering our current lack of a pk taker. Meh, of the players you list, one is a forward. Quick, point me to the guy who is taking chances away from Ruud? You are right. Ronaldo's form was not a season long event. It was damn near 2.5 years. How can someone score 42 goals in a season but not be in form for the whole season? What kind of shit are you smoking? What would he have done to the league, the fa cup and to the cl if he were actually in form? lolol For the record, I asked whether or not Ronnie had scored 10. I knew it was a big number. If I recall correctly, he had 3 or 4 game winners in Europe alone. Probably as many as 5.
Re: Manchester United vs West Ham 2/23/10 [R] lol what are you on about? I scored 20 in the league as opposed to 25 which isnt 1/3 and 44 total to 30 next year which still isnt 1/3 or even 1/2 the only season it was 1/3 was the one i was injured in and for most of, that being 04-05 even 05-06 i was on 21 half way through the god damn season. check those seasons and fractions again
Re: Manchester United vs West Ham 2/23/10 [R] Meant by a third which is true. 44 down to 30 is a third less. Ruud's second best season came in is first for us when Beckham had 16 and Ole had 25.
Re: Manchester United vs West Ham 2/23/10 [R] Complete joke. Hence the smiley or did you miss that? Our current PK taker has been quite good though. Got to see if he gets the big European night shivers that Ronnie had on the spot though to be sure. Only forwards take chances now? The treble. Ronnie had plenty of big off days. That match against Pompey, his obvious nerves against Barca away, his no show in Milan, the 07 FA Cup final. A big chuck of 08/09. But what is confusing me what you consider worthwhile form. Is scoring consistently not form? Is continually playing well without scoring often better? Ronaldo's big three seasons saw him score 23, 42 and 26 respectively. You keep talking about 2 and half years. Ronaldo's 08/09 was patchy at best before April. Outside of his performance against Chelsea, Ronaldo's season comes down to the double against Villa, that goal against Porto, his explosion against Spurs and obviously the Cl semis second leg. All coming in April or later. Though one has to wonder how important that incredible Porto goal would have been had Rooney not stolen that back pass or got that ball to Tevez for our second in the first leg. Over those three season Ronaldo had 15 goals in Europe in 34 matches, 33 being starts. 3, 8 and 4 respectively, 10 coming in the KO stages. Something funny though is his 8 came in the one season out of those three he actually scored in the group stage. 5 in 4 matches against Sporting and Dynamo Kiev. What made Ronnie superior to the rest of Europe was his 4 game winners (Lyon, Roma, Porto and Arsenal) in the KO stages. Hard to judge Rooney in that regard when he has only had on chance this season, though he did exactly what he needed to do. He got us a brace and the winner.
Probably the best comparison between Rooney this season and Ronaldo is the Ronaldo of last season. I think it makes sense because like Ronaldo last season, it took the old man over half the season to figure out the best role for each. Remember last season that Fergie kept trying to use Ronaldo as a winger in a 4-4-2 instead of the free role in which he had flourished. This season it took Fergie until February to figure out that Rooney is better by himself in front against the better teams. I know I'm guilty of making the comparison with Ronaldo of two seasons ago but it's actually unfair to Rooney as the team of two seasons ago was set up to cater to Ronaldo and that has not been the case for Rooney for most of this season.
He was still doing fairly qwell before Christmas though, albeit I see your point and agree. His form has taken a notable upturn since the start of the year when he started this hot-streak. Now it seems it'll never end. I hope it continues, but it depends on how and when he's rested.