Rood-Witten (& Blau) Malik Tillman at PSV America (olf Bayern Munich)

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by CreightonMCFCjoey, Aug 18, 2015.

  1. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    The problem with a bridge transfer is that it requires intent to circumvent regulations or to ******** someone over, and that wouldn’t be the case with a club using a buyback clause. It’s more of an issue if like, Girona buys some guy from Brazil for €30 million and then immediately sells him to City for €5 million so City can skirt financial rules.
     
  2. sXeWesley

    sXeWesley Member+

    Jun 18, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah of course. Im asking if Bayern Munich can trigger the clause now if they wanted to, as a PSV friend is convinced it’s for next season only, which seems obviously ridiculous so I’m wondering if someone else knows more definitively.

    Completely separately I’m speculating that it makes sense for Munich to bring him back as a depth piece and to see if he could make it there, as they have nothing to lose considering his value and from Tillman’s perspective he’s said over and over again he wants to get back to Bayern Munich.

    To be crystal clear I’m not suggesting a bridge transfer or whatever, just that Munich take a flier on bringing him back.
     
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  3. zlatan_but_a_car

    Botswana Meat Commission FC
    United States
    Oct 16, 2017
    So, 2 things:
    1. The RSTP don't define it that way. The text of rule is, "It shall be presumed, unless established to the contrary, that if two consecutive transfers, national or international, of the same player occur within a period of 16 weeks, the parties (clubs and player) involved in those two transfers have participated in a bridge transfer." My understanding is that "establish[ment] to the contrary" would be a situation like "we want to buy this player who is on loan, so they have to return from loan and then we can buy and register them". In this situation, Bayern Munich would have to prove that they intended to use Tillman, executed the buyback, THEN Leverkusen approached them with a better offer, and I think FIFA would have a hard time buying that considering that Bayern sold (not loaned) Tillman to PSV.

    2. I think PSV would be the "someone" getting ******* over in this hypothetical, as they would contend that if Leverkusen wanted Tillman, they should have negotiated directly with them instead of having Munich do the buyback just so they could buy him from Munich. What FIFA wants to avoid is big clubs like Bayern calling "dibs" on players they see potential in, but don't want to keep on the payroll via loans.

    edit: I do not understand why my fingers refuse to spell "RSTP" correctly ever
     
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  4. zlatan_but_a_car

    Botswana Meat Commission FC
    United States
    Oct 16, 2017
    The only way a "bridge transfer" could be alleged is if Munich took a flier on him, purchased him at the rate agreed upon in the buy-back clause, then sold him to Leverkusen within the same window, with the idea being that Leverkusen could potentially save money on the transfer by paying Munich slightly more than the buy-back clause but not as much as PSV would ask for.

    As for the validity of the clause next season vs this season, either is possible! Seriously, there is no way for anyone to know. We are all going off reports given to journalists which often get distorted or misrepresented for clicks as the news filters down through the media ecosystem.
     
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  5. zlatan_but_a_car

    Botswana Meat Commission FC
    United States
    Oct 16, 2017
    @sXeWesley I think this Rik Elfrink tweet clarifies the buy-back clause (but, again, Elfrink likely has not read the contract):


    Sounds like "Bayern buys back; sells to Bayer" is not on the table, although maybe Bayern would buy-back and loan to Bayer with an option to buy, and which would "kick the can" to next season AND not avoid the Disciplinary Committees' scrutiny.

    edit: "Droomclub van Tillman" is probably spinning trance next week at club Radion in Amsterdam.
     
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  6. sXeWesley

    sXeWesley Member+

    Jun 18, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    TY! Exactly what I was looking for. Doom club van Tillman… I’m in.
     
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  7. Tillman can be sold for a hefty amount, according to the club management, which is above 35 million euros.
    That amount has only been agreed with Bayern Munich, in the form of a buy-back option.
    However, Bayern can only execute that option in the transfer summer of 2026.
     
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  8. johan derksen

    johan derksen BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 14, 2004
    Venlo, Netherlands
    Well well, things have taken a turn. It seems that Bayern can actually trigger the clause in a small period this summer also.
     
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  9. zlatan_but_a_car

    Botswana Meat Commission FC
    United States
    Oct 16, 2017
    This is why I noted the caveat that "Rik has not seen the contract" in my last post. These deals are ALWAYS black boxes, even for the most reliable reporters. Rik is now reporting the same thing: that Bayern can trigger the buy-back for some brief period of time at the beginning of the 2025 window.

    He seems to be under the impression that Leverkusen are still in pole position if Tillman decides to leave, but he now describes that clause as "a snake in the grass".
     
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  10. sXeWesley

    sXeWesley Member+

    Jun 18, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    https://www.kicker.de/leverkusen-ei...versteckspiel-mit-der-klausel-1127634/artikel

    Yep, this is what I was saying to my obstinate and typically arrogant Dutch PSV friends lol. An option you can only execute two years later that doesn’t include first refusal is nonsensical.

    As I said earlier seems a slam dunk for Munich. Cutting through all the BS, the player is worth more than the option they have and they could use depth, why on earth not pull the trigger

    Only question is if Leverkusen or someone else values him far above that option and more than Bayern, but I’m totally down for him to return home.

    Time for Earnie to replace him with Luna…
     
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  11. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Herc thinks Leverkusen is too big a jump.

     
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  12. sXeWesley

    sXeWesley Member+

    Jun 18, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So does TSS but I couldn’t disagree with them more. Tillman is a well rounded player, he’s not some Bosz system player and he’s the type imo, that will look better the better players around him.
     
  13. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Herc is a bad-take merchant.

    Xavi Simons jumped to Leipzig, Jordan Teze went to Monaco, Ibrahim Sangare went to Forest, Cody Gakpo went straight to Liverpool, Noni Madueke went to Chelsea, Donyell Malen to Dortmund, Denzel Dumfries to Inter. And that's all in the last 4 years - the high-end Eredivisie to high-end teams in bigger leagues is a pretty well-trodden path.

    American soccer people have a weird obsession with making little baby steps up the ladder. Dude was already at Bayern, he can probably handle the leap to Leverkusen. And if he can't? Oh well! He'll end up at the level of club that Herc wants him to go to now, just after having made more money and probably on a higher salary than he would have been had he gone there first.
     
  14. FC Tallavana

    FC Tallavana Member+

    Jul 1, 2004
    La Quinta
    Every now and then he gets lucky with something he states. But I don't think this is one of those times. Tillman is currently our best bet to become a world class player. Not that it's a good bet. But he has everything you could hope for. Size, athleticism, skill, and now some quality experience.
     
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  15. johan derksen

    johan derksen BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 14, 2004
    Venlo, Netherlands
    1 times (1!) Bundesliga champion Leverkusen. What giants!

    ;)
     
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  16. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not sure why you are giving Herc flak. Herc was the most positive on that panel that Malik was ready to make a move maybe just not to the team that finished first and 2nd the last 2 years in the BuLi.

    I think Malik is absolutely ready for the BuLi but taking a step to a top 2 team where he may get limited playing time may impact his WC2026 roster tier.

    The other 2 members of that panel especially Kasey Keller did not think much of Tillman at all. Not sure what they are watching?
     
  17. kruck

    kruck Member+

    Jan 12, 2008
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    Well Kasey is someone who has played in the BL, EPL, La Liga and the World Cup.

    He also watches every USMNT game in his role as an analyst.

    I think he has a pretty valuable opinion.

    I am inclined to agree with him in regards to Tillman.

    He has been pretty poor against good competition with the USMNT and a couple of good games against T&T and Haiti are going to peoples heads.
     
  18. zlatan_but_a_car

    Botswana Meat Commission FC
    United States
    Oct 16, 2017
    He was also quite good in this year's CL. I honestly don't know what to make of Tillman's ceiling, but I think BL would be manageable for him.
     
  19. Rik is the first and most important press link for PSV, but of course Rik's info, despite coming directly from the club's directors, is only what the directors see opportune to disclose.
    If this brief intermezzo exists, they kept it hidden from Rik, but now the transfer train starts moving, they obviously had to disclose to Rik the missing link, as it would become obvious if Bayern triggered it.
     
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  20. Who cares what these say?
    If it matters what they say, they would be on the board of a top club, running the show.*
    But here they are whaffling in a soccershow.

    Edit: * like Earnest is doing.
     
  21. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1871 TheHoustonHoyaFan, Jun 24, 2025
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2025
    Claims Leverkusen has reached agreement with Malik but dispute over the $35M 'release clause".



    https://sports.yahoo.com/article/bayer-leverkusen-reach-agreement-psv-200000586.html

    Kicker :

    https://www.kicker.de/leverkusen-ei...versteckspiel-mit-der-klausel-1127634/artikel
     
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  22. zlatan_but_a_car

    Botswana Meat Commission FC
    United States
    Oct 16, 2017
    Is this the case that gets CAS to review the legality of "release clauses" outside of Spain???

    I hope not, because the Bosman ruling kinda tanked Jean-Marc Bosman's career (according to him). You never want to be the guy the ruling is named after, you always want to be the first guy to use it after it gets a name (eg: Edgar Davids being the first major player to utilize a Bosman ruling style transfer)
     
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  23. twoolley

    twoolley Member+

    Jan 3, 2008
    I bet they figure it out with some negotiation
     
  24. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    Germany will likely be a very good step for Tillman. When he first played at Gers he had a tendency to be too cute at the expense of effective (my pop psychology take is too much training ground fun at BM.) His coaches seemed to really work on that aspect of his game and it has slowly gotten better. PSV/Bosz seemed to continue to help squeeze that instinct out of him, and although we see him revert now and again - he tried a few "low percentage, geewhiz balls in the GC so far, I think - more than usual, esp v. Haiti - he's gotten much better and the stats reflect this. Germany, in general, has very little tolerance for showboat stuff that doesn't come off. Tillman will need to take the next step sooner or later. Him staying at PSV would be fun as he'll get tons of minutes and with PSV will put up good numbers, but BM or BL will probably tighten his game a good bit - and, of course, he's played there, at the club and youth level, to be more comfortable in that league than anywhere.
     
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  25. https://www.vi.nl/pro/opinie/creeert-psv-na-de-simons-soap-nu-de-tillman-toestand
    There is a very good chance that Malik Tillman has played his last game for PSV. The multifunctional footballer who now shines at the Gold Cup with the United States is very emphatically in the interest of Bayer Leverkusen, while Bayern Munich can hijack a possible deal. The German Rekordmeister can bring Tillman back to Munich for 35 million euros from a certain date this window.
    This is at odds with earlier reports that this clause would only apply from the summer of 2026. Reports that came directly from PSV, by the way.
    It was like this. Last year, technical director Earnest Stewart managed to sign Tillman permanently. The American reportedly paid fourteen million euros for his compatriot. The Instagram account PSV Medium then announced that Bayern Munich could buy Tillman back for 35 million euros. Stewart was stunned that this very detailed information, of which only a few people within PSV were aware, had been leaked.
    Of course, Voetbal International also inquired with PSV whether that leaked information was accurate. That turned out to be the case, but it was not explicitly said until the summer of 2026. In addition, Bayern had stipulated a matching-right, which means that the Germans have the right to match any offer from another club for Tillman. 'In any case, it is clear that PSV has not learned much from the soap opera around the contract of Xavi Simons
    '

    Seems Earnest has been untruthful towards supporters for the second time about a key player's contract.
     
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