yea i know that, but you and the other poster have specifically mentioned the entertainment value and why fans like him of the tricks and that's what I was referring to only. Same with with Cristiano Ronaldo, fans just love to watch his tricks.
I was asking you what should i appreciate. Though i can agree as a player, Keane was very effective, and even though he wasnt entertaining to me, and i never liked him, i can admit that he was a world calls player. So is Lampard, and so is Gerrard and so is any other player like that. I dont know how to tell you this, but the world will never appreciate Scott Parker and Gattuso's because they are viewed as boring to most of the board. Lampard is actually techinically a great player. Great control, and great vision, passing skill etc... He didnt win the award because Ronaldinho just being the better player.
France, Portugal, Spain? Nah, let me guess again. I've been wrong once, I can stomach being wrong again. England or Germany. Maybe Italy. But I think the German fans would kill for a player with 'Dinho's talent. Sadly, I think the Brits would rather continue losing World Cups than have the sun shine on any of their national teams. No, you and others like you (Teso, Comme) know how to try to suck all the joy out of the world's greatest sport. It's not an 8-hour job at the sawmill, and I hope it never becomes one. Cry somewhere else, man. And drop the luddite culture like the bad habit it is. Lord help us all if the Game ever returns to what some fans want it to be. It's Cro-Magnon, like I said.
so in your regard, the world will never appreciate the Parkers and Gattussos even if they're fantastic players? whats the only reason for that then other than they're close minded and ignorant?! You think Ronaldinho is being the better player, I don't and let me remind you I stressed form as well. Last season belonged to Lampard, if you would base the award mainly on the players' contribution on this season I wouldn't even consider Lampard to having a better one than Ronaldinho.
No. You're trying to create a distinction between Ronaldhino and Lampard, but the one you're making is misleading. Lampard is an attacking midfielder. He works best with a defensive midfielder behind him (as does Gerrard), and he tends to notch lots of assists and goals with his fine passing and precise shooting ability. He also has a knack for ghosting up to the penalty area and making the most of chance opportunities that open up there. A smart player, extremely consistent, too. And unquestionably world-class. You're going to try to sell us on the idea that Lampard is some kind of great defender, and that he deserves the award because he can defend where Ronaldhino can't. Maybe, but defending isn't Lampard's main job. Makele does most of the defensive midfield work, and when Lampard does it it's gravy. Of course, the fact that Lampard is never injured and never gets yellow cards will tell you a lot about how much ball-winning he really does. Not much. Ronaldhino is a different kind of player. Some call him an attacking midfielder, but not me. I see Ronaldhino as having a free role, sometimes as a withdrawn forward, sometimes in the midfield. He has no serious defensive duties. Yet in the role I've described above, Ronaldhino does one thing that no one else in the world can do as devastatingly or as effectively: he improvises. Not since Roberto Baggio has there been a fantasista of Dinho's class. Passes off the back? No problem. Sombreros as a first touch? Surely. No look passes? Feints invented right on the spot? Yep. Passes to himself, backheels, dummies? All that, and lots more. What Ronaldhino has grasped is that in the modern game a direct approach is not enough: defenses are too organized, defenders too strong, too athletic. What's needed is the element of surprise--a pass that splits two center-backs, a sudden turn that bamboozles a midfielder, a feint that wrongfoots a full-back. Yet this element--this skill for improvising that constitutes Ronaldhino's very genius and his great contribution to the game--you deride as mere "flashiness," as "tricks" that any player in the world could do if only they wanted to. Wrong. Defenders will tell you that Ronaldhino never repeats the same feint in a game; Paolo Maldini noted with amazement that Dinho often invents feints as the game is being played. That sort of skill only comes from endless repetition, audacity, perfect technique--from creative genius. Now Lampard is a great player. But don't pretend that the only difference between him and Ronaldinho is "flashiness." The difference is in the improvising and it's what separates Dinho from every other player in the world at the moment.
Why the hell do you insist on misinterpretting what I'm saying? I've never mentioned that I don't appreciate Ronaldinho or players of his type. I've said this numerous times within this thread, so just drop it. Not everyone is going to conform and go along with the majority, people have different opinions and they can express them, deal with it.
Mag. Ni. Fi. Cent. Said better than I ever could have. I cannot possibly give you enough rep for this post. In fact, I can't give you any right now, as I've given too much, but I will.
You accuse me of making the argument that Lampard is a great defender, which I haven't yet made I agree with all your points and again, never argued them, I support them completely. Pay attention, I'm not going to repeat this; I didn't say nor do I regard Ronaldinho as just being "flashy". I only brought that up because the other poster was telling me how the rest of the world just prefers these type of players and won't recognize anyone else who doesn't do a certain amount of tricks. In no way did I mean to say that Ronaldinho is just that, but its one huge aspect of why he's so highly regarded and popular by so many fans. And again, I stress form, you can't tell me that Ronaldinho had a better last season than Lampard regardless of his improvisation which was somewhat inconsistent even for him that season.
Probably true. I had a good debate about this with BillyIreland a while back. He stunned me by listing the numbers of both Lampard and Ronaldhino last season--IIRC Lampard had the better of both goals and assists. Of course, Lampard played more games, but even that may run in Lampard's favor . . . . He would have been a worthy winner, no doubt.
if it was a popularity contest becks would have had five of these. atleast. ronaldinho won because hes the best. lampard shouldnt have been in contention. hes not even the best in his own league.
Well that's just a complete joke. Check any of the countless threads regarding Ronaldinho to see what I have stated. A quick summary is the following. Ronaldinho is the best at what he does, which is dribbling with the ball and using tricks to get past an opponent. I have nothing but praise for him, because he is clearly one of the best in the world and great to watch. However, let's not go overboard and let bias take control. Ronaldinho is not the most complete player in the world, isn't the greatest player ever and isn't the most in-form player. Unfortunately certain groups of people get too distracted by the highlight reels and therefore cannot understand that other players have played better over the same period of time. Due to that, they go on the offensive and refuse to acknowledge what the likes of Riquelme and Lampard have done. That is wrong in my opinion and that's why I refuse to jump on the bandwagon and instead try to explain that to these ignorant people. It's not a hatred of Brazilan players and not a hatred of Ronaldinho. It's called being objective.
No. You do regularly dismiss and deride Brazilian players, using exactly the same condescending tone you do above - "good at beating players with tricks," "a glorified winger," etc. Thinking back to the Ronaldo vs. Muller debates, the best player ever threads, the 'most complete player' thread, and many others, it's clear that you and SirManchester are so incensed by Brazil's 'fan boys' that you've taken hyper-critical positions on Brazilian players and have invented all sorts of perverse ways of praising players who are less "flashy," the criticism of choice for the average Brazilian player. Take this 'most complete' business. You argued that Rooney was more 'complete' because he defended as well provided offense. This laughable position was exposed for exactly what it was--sophistry. Both Dinho and Rooney are offensive players, and they'll be judged by their offense, on which criteria Dinho is obviously superior. If you've ever wholeheartedly praised Ronaldinho, I've yet to see it.
Teso, its much more than just...highlight reels ...Atleast in Ronaldinho's case. He has good control, yeah, creativity, improvisation, and all the rest taht you have aknowledged, but its still much more than that. I know you have seen him play. I know your not disputing how good he is. But to say that the fans who appreciate him are ignorant because they cant say pass the tricks isnt fair. No one has doubted the effectiveness, and industrousness of Gerrard and co., but seeing as how Lampard and Gerrard were in the top three for European player of the year award, shows that people do appreciate it. We also acknowledge that they are almost equally important. The way it seems is, that there are some people from certain area's of the world (not generalizing) who do not appreciate what Ronaldinho brings to the table. Believe me its much more than just "dribbling with the ball and using tricks to get past an opponent". Saying that is ignorant as well. Let me ask a general question. If there was 10 minutes left in the game, who would you get the ball to?
You.. my friend.. know about football.Great post I chuckle at those who say Ronaldinho is just a flashy player.Its not just flashiness no...
Ronaldinho won the award with the largest voting difference ever!!!! If that does not tell you that at least he is a great player..than you just don't know anything about soccer. Please, I see people mentioning Gerrard, Ballack and other... Ronaldinho got the most votes followed by Lampard and Eto'o, Gerrard I believe was the 7th, after Kaka. So, based on the opinions of the coaches and managers of the top world clubs, Gerrard is not even top 5... Thank you Rogerio, Cicinho are much better than Gerrard!! They are world champions!
Yea those players you mentioned can dribble at full speed like Ronaldinho and pull away from 4 players .Why do you think they dont do it? Because they CANT period.No one agrees with you buddy.
Whoever said something that stupid hasn't watched nearly enough football, certainly hasn't played enough football, or is flatly predjudicial. Period. Every single team on earth would start Ronaldinho, and make SURE that possession went through him; there are all kinds of teams that wouldn't necessarily start Lampard over what they have in midfield. If someone's arguing that, for some prokaryotic, troglodytic readon, they wouldn't do that, well...they've probably never been, and probably never WILL be, in a position of decision-making authority to make such a galactic, ass-bearing blunder. If they were, it'd be the VERY LAST management decision they'd ever make. What a goofy position to take. You'd almost have to HATE football to take it, or hate yourself through football. Hmmm; maybe that's what this is about; maybe someone hates themselves, and wants the world to join him in sporting self-immolation. No thanks. I'll continue to enjoy Ronaldinho-on-the-pitch as freaking EMBLEMATIC of what is best in life.
I'm not here to criticize Lampard, MB. He's a fabulous player that would improve any team (as a matter of fact, Ronaldinho is asking Barca to buy Lampard) but I do think it's very misleading to think Ronaldinho is merely an entertainer with no substance. Read this article by Simon Kuper for a better view of Dinho: http://www.bookofjoe.com/2005/03/the_genius_of_r.html
The only who questions it is the SirMan and the dud tells others to move on lol Im sure he prefers watchin roy keane than Ronaldinho because keane can defend