Roldan and are you watching the game? 2021 Thread bump

You're responding to me, instead of what prompted the response.

Again, the first goal is ALL ARF and Reyna, and mostly ARF (although considering aerial production hasn't been a part of Reyna's game to put it mildly, maybe I shouldn't be so dismissive)...

The Second goal is nearly all Balo, with a little bit of Reyna, and a lot of luck with the pinging.

Does Roldan's pressure start the sequence, yes and no. It does create a bad pass back, but to say he contributed to the goal, is to be generous, because 99% of the work is what Balo did, and to a lesser extent, Reyna, the Paraguay defense, and just luck.

I'm not critiquing what Roldan did, but this isn't what say, Tillman did to generate that one goal, he made a good play, which was a part of a sequence that eventually ended in a goal.

If you disagree, fair play, I've got no problem with it, and I'm not criticizing it, the play obviously begins with the pressure, primarily from Roldan, but nearly all the work is left to do, correct? This isn't Agyemang winning a 50/50 ball he had zero chance of winning and yet did anyway, or Tillman just annihilating a guy on the tackle, after the pressure, a whole lot of ---- needs to happen involving a litany of players. That's my problem with the characterization: if we say that contributed to the goal, in the way 50/50 is presenting it, like an assist or hockey assist, you can basically comb through anything and argue it, because all goals are scored by links in chains connecting, but we give assists, and goals for a reason, scoring goals is hard as hell, and when 98% of the goal is on the rest of the work and incidents, it is generous to credit that in the way he wishes to. That's my issue. I liked what he did there, but someone's reaching when they discuss the sequence from Roldan's stand point when everyone on the planet is first talking about Arf/Reyna/Balo in the sequences (especially with the first goal, I like the contribution on the second goal a lot more, as I will freely concede, goals like that, are about effort, persistence, pressing, all of which Roldan was doing early on, but it's not what caused the goal, what caused the goal was Balo and Reyna, Paraguayan errors and a reasonably lucky deflection(s) by sending it into the mixer).

I don't disagree w/your view so much as the weight 50/50 wants to put it on it. It's important, but 50/50 is looking for area's to put in lights what Roldan in situations that were 95% about the work of other players. Link in a chain that's important: yes, what contributed to the goal, not so much, if it was, we'd all be talking about step 2 in a 8 step sequence of any goal, and we don't do that. But yes, of course, what he did, is exactly what you want a player to do.

 

On this particular play, I don't know what the percentages are, but clearly forcing a turnover deeply in the opponents' territory is worth more than 1%. (It's also worth noting that Roldan was not the only person forcing that turnover.)

There's probably something in a G+ or xThreat style model that allocates that benefit to a number; I don't know what it is but I am sure it is more than .01.

In short, 50/50 may be allocating too much, but I think you are allocating too little.

That's not really what I am focusing on in the broader discussion of Roldan. For me, it's two things. The simple one is the commentary that other posters have made about his backpassing. Since I went back through and rewatched, it really is a case of a couple of early ones and people counting the things that support their view and not counting those that don't. It happens to all of us, but the reality is that Roldan was pretty good at progressing the ball in this match.

And two, the bigger picture seems to be about role. Roldan was all over the place defensively, he covered for Reyna's lack of defensive movement and Tessman's near constant forward placement. We also had Scally up a lot -- we overloaded the right side and everyone was raving about that, but we really didn't get stung by it defensively and that had a lot to with Roldan.

He also played his progression role to a T.

Was any of it spectacular? No. But I think fans think that that means anyone can or could do it. But that's not true. We've seen that not be true. It doesn't mean someone else couldn't do it, but that's completely different than if Roldan had a good game.

And the reality is that he got the ball to better offensive players and he played the primary role in letting those players get forward. It was a big enabler, and much like at CB, playing the role competently is a strong game. You do not need the spectacular if you simply execute your job without any real mistakes. That's one of the differences between a defensive and offensive role.

That's excelling as a piano carrier. I think people think piano carriers are only necessary because there isn't enough talent in the pool to have 11 piano players. That's not really true. Someone needs to do the dirty work. 11 Piano players means the piano never got to the concert hall.

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(It's even a bit like his contribution on the first goal. Would his G+ or xthreat be large on that? Not really. That might be .01! (Or likely a tiny bit more).

But I watched a number of players even in this game not take open shots that could have led to similar rebounds, or not get it on goal. And I certainly saw players not make the smart, correct pass.

He really shouldn't get much credit for that goal at all, but I guarantee there are players in this pool that people like a lot more that would have not acted as decisively and that goal never comes to pass. )

 

The defensive stat I most value in Football Manager is interceptions.

 

Making a positive and correct pass / play is always great. I'll have to add another useful thing is being open a lot to receive those passes. Roldan has figured out Reyna is usually open and now looks for him. I often watch for movement when a deep lying player gets a ball and looks to make a pass. It's amazing how many times possible receiving players don't move at all, barely move or even move to a worse spot for the passer to be able to make a pass to them. Look at stats and see who has a high touch count. That is a player that moves a lot and just knows where to be and anticipate passes. I think this is why it sometimes (not always) looks like Reyna is walking.

 

Video clip of Donovan and Howard discussing:

Expect Cristian Roldan to be on the USMNT's World Cup roster

 

Here’s a symmetry question. Does performing like a top 26 player with US team (even if not performing for your club) mean you’re on the WC roster AS MUCH AS not performing for the US team (despite high performance for club) mean you’re off the WC roster?

 

I don't know what the question has to do with Roldan. He's performing for both his club team and the USMNT.

Howard and Donovan, in their discussion linked above, nail why he's in the team. And why he's been in the team for a long time now.

 

Not all paths lead to destiny but all destinies lead to Roldan.

 

The never-ending sniping at Roldan is one of the mysteries of USMNT fandom. it does seem like its dwindling to a vocal minority. But the haters are still there on twitter, etc.

I'd have thought that a coach with the resume of Pochettino coming over from Europe, and also picking a guy like Roldan, would lead to some introspection and navel-gazing amongst the haters.

Pochettino led Spurs to a Champions League final. SPURS! And listen to the things he says about Cristian Roldan! Donovan and Howard mention it.

 

I actually lol’d. So true. Vibes guy. Glue guy. Trusted confidant. Keeps it seemple.

 

It's not a mystery. He plays in MLS. That's it. That's all. There's a subset of people who simply will not re-evaluate that.

 

Considering that everyone can have an up or down game or be hot (or cold) for a stretch, I think that it depends upon time. If a player has been good for USMNT for an extended period of time, he's in over a player that has not been performing over an extended period of time. Period.

I do think that a player that shows high quality with club over an extended period of time shouldn't be shut out permanently...unless there are extenuating circumstances of course.

Of course, if we are talking about Roldan, he has consistently played well and played an increasingly important role within his club over the years, but it is only recently that he has been seen by (what seems like a majority) as potentially important member of the USMNT. I know that MLS does not have the status of any of the big 5 leagues. You could argue that he fits into the category of a player that has underperformed with USMNT in past compared to club.

 

I think partly he's under performed because he's not a winger or attacking mid and looks better farther back. he also now has the experience to play deeper and as player's retired for Seattle he has become a real leader. Not sure he'll get a ton of minutes but spot starter and defensive sub to close out games seems an easy call.

 

Agree 100%. The thing that has always bothered me was the double standard applied to Roldan compared to many others. Any poor performance by Roldan was chalked up as evidence of his lack of quality, while at the same time poor performances by those perceived as playing at a higher level tended to have those performances blamed on coaching and/or being played out of position.

 

Nonsense.

When Roldan had a great fall window in October, and a solid one in November, nobody was critiquing because he played well, there were some specific critiques of an issue here or there w/regards to them (the ones I saw were actually from neutrals or pro-Roldan guys).

He played more than 30 games between '18-'22 and was not good, like ever, during a period where he was good to excellent with Seattle. I don't think there was a single Roldan critic when he was brought in because he was one of the more exciting prospects when the roof caved in back in '17-'18, but by the end of summer '19, there were no positive returns and that was when quite justifiably the sniping began. It was based on real, tangible, underperformance, just like the critiques of Sargent or Tillman, both of whom I liked a lot, were fair, Tillman didn't really have a genuinely good performance in the shirt until last summer, Sargent really did struggle to play better than competently for a half decade, the critiques were fair, I had counter arguments, but I also understood why people disagreed, it's just that in both cases, I figured with more sample size and opportunity, they would translate: that proved true with Tillman but not with Sargent. With Roldan, he just wasn't good in the shirt. Period.

The sniping, if one would call it that, was simply accurate or reasonably accurate critiques of underwhelming performances. In 2025 he played his best ball in the shirt ever, and I said as much in September/October/November. So did pretty much all of his critics, and if there is one hater like this, or one hater like that (we have guys like Tillman, Reyna, McKennie who have attracted one note critiques for years and years), that is what the ignore button is for, or the scroll button. If I know I'm getting a thoughtless piece of haterade from a notorious hater, I either scroll past, or put them on ignore. I don't pretend they are part of some clueless, know nothing band of haters because they're not, they are themselves, either a hater, or a rational poster with an argument. Decide without the gross generalizations.

 

I think the mix of strong club play in his history, excellent performance in the first windows Poch watched him in, combined with the well known "Rudy" like awesome teammateness of the guy, has really, really ingratiated himself to Poch, and Donovan and all those guys are familiar with the chemistry issue and how big a deal it is. So long as he brings something resembling what I saw in the fall, he belongs in the discussion for me, and it won't shock me in the least, if his name is in pen for now.

 

If it bothered you, the problem some of us had, certainly me, was that eventually you run out of, or should run out of caps to earn when you literally never show anything on the field. Johnny is currently closing in on that, Tillman was edging towards it last summer, Sargent is well past that now, and Roldan earned about 15-20 more caps than I would have given him '18-'22 when it became obvious to me that he provided nothing of material use that moved the needle for the team, zilch, for that '22 run.

For '26? Sure looked different to me, Poch, and how he utilizes him, and Roldan and how he executed Poch's game plan? Looked damn good to me. There are clear limitations, and some posters underlined some issues, particularly in November, but the difference for me was that in both windows where he played strong minutes, he was a net positive on the field in a variety of ways pretty consistently. He was consistently additive, some games more than others, but yeah, definitively impactful or just a plus. I'm more than willing to marshall the opposite opinion of one I previously had, and for the most part, Roldan demanded that of me with his play last fall. Good for him. He doesn't need that from me lol, but as a fan he certainly deserves that intellectual flexibility from me, and so I give it. I think it's only fair. In the same way, as much as a Tillman fan I may be, I'm alarmed at how meh his performance has been so far in the Bundesliga. Quite worried. Just as Marsch lost his job with RBL in part because they had a fire sale before he got there, Tillman is struggling with a significantly weakened side since he arrived at Leverkusen, but that's not an excuse for just playing blah soccer for several month's straight.

Got to be intellectually honest folks, and I know I'm trying to be. Roldan earned his ticket, for now, with his performance in the fall, health and his performance in March will dictate if he keeps it.

 

It really wasn't an argument for or against Roldan. It was more pointing out the double standard. I am not saying that he played well enough to make the team. I am saying that others, when they were under-achieving compared to expectations were given the benefit of th doubt...it was blamed on Berhalter. The fact is that all of the players, good and bad, that played in that time period had the same coach. I don't see how (Berhalter) can be blamed for a Eurostar's underperformance, but not Roldan's.

My point isn't about Roldan vs LDLT or Weah or anyone else. It is about consistency.

Edit: of course the one thing that neither you nor I can accurately judge is the intangibles that a player brings to the table and how much those intangibles are actually worth.

 

In the past I thought Roldan was one of those guys that wasn't quite up to the national team level. He earned another chance with his team play and has crossed that threshold now. Whether it's enough to make the squad depends on his form this year and the form of his competitors. I think he'll make it because I don't see his form dropping knowing what's at stake. I think the competitors nipping at his heels (Johnny and Musah) aren't going to convince Poch they've surpassed him.

 

There's no such thing as "national team level."

The only thing that makes a player national team level is a USMNT coach calling them up.

I'm not even sure how much guys like Johnny and Musah are nipping at his heels.
We can read and hear what Pochettino is saying about him.

When somebody says he was bad at the 2021 Gold Cup (or whatever)................what on Earth is the relevance of that to Pochettino? None of that is relevant.

We brought in a coach with a fresh slate and no pre-exisitng opinion of many of the MLS players that he'd never seen before. He watched Roldan for Seattle and was impressed enough in what he saw to bring him in.

I think this column does a great job of describing what's happened with Roldan in terms of role and confidence.
How Roldan went from USMNT afterthought to Pochettino favorite - ESPN

At the Club World Cup, a tournament in which outside expectations for Seattle were low, the Sounders and Roldan were competitive against globally recognized giants such as Paris Saint-Germain and Atlético Madrid.

"The Club World Cup made me believe that I can play at a higher level. It made me believe that there's more that I can give to the sport," said Roldan, who scored against Botafogo. "Even at 30, I can get better and sustain that."

"If you look at Cristian's individual performances against three of the best teams in the world, he didn't look out of place. He actually looked better than a lot of players," Schmetzer said. "That really helped his confidence, and I think he said it after those games, he said to himself, you know, I can play with these guys. I can actually play with some of the best players in the world."

Two months later, he was shutting down Messi & Co. in the Leagues Cup final. After the 3-0 thrashing of Inter Miami, and with plenty of momentum behind him in a stellar 2025, the Seattle captain earned his long-awaited return to the USMNT.

 

I am going to have to watch him more carefully. Last window. My main impressions of him were that he repeatedly refused to turn and take available open space (or look forward) when receiving the ball from the keeper for the center backs. he gave me Sebastian Letget flashbacks. my general sense was that test Men was the better alternative to Tyler, and others better alternatives as blocked to box me builders. But these testimonials tell me I better pay closer attention.