Rochester may enter MLS in 2004

now all this expansion stuff is getting silly...

 

Not really new news, at least to me, a month ago it was reported on a News Channel in Rochester, saying that they could have a team in MLS as soon as 2004, news people didn't know if that meant relocation or expansion...I posted here and the other board and got flamed for the most part...people are stupid, but at least this situation has an AP story now...

Hopefully this means Chivas is joining in 04 also, so we have an even # of teams...

also a good question could be, if two join in 04 does that mean we're still expanding by two for 05?!?!?!?

14 teams by 2005, that'd be cool...

 

The Metrostars and the Rhinos..... local derby baby!! The traveling fans and firms will hopefully be in great numbers....

 

We have to be very careful about expanding too quickly. In Rochester's case, I feel that the quicker they do it, the better.

Just one pet peeve, can DuRoss please get some sort of design firm to redesign that cheesey Rhino on their logo, and take out the Ragin'. PLEASE. If they come into the leage like that, they will look extremely amateurish, and join the Burn in my view with the worst name. Ragin' Rhinos. That's bad.

 

How bout the Rochester Wandering Rhinos ?

 

Ordinarily I would think this was crazy, but...

Rochester has an existing infrastructure. They have a front office, ticket reps, sponsorship people, a GM, coaches. They have fans, media coverage. They have name recognition and tradition. They're getting a stadium, all of their own, and they have players.

Yes, they'll need to upgrade some of their players and probably expand their front office, but otherwise, they should be in much better shape than your average start-up team.

We all want expansion. And, we know that Chivas is chomping at the bit to play next year. And, having an odd number of teams would suck.

So, if Chivas is really coming to play next year, then having Rochester join next year makes sense.

And, it also means that when Cleveland comes aboard in 05 or 06 they will have an expasion partner - Seattle, Portland, Philly, Houston, Oklahoma... you know the usual suspects - and suddeny we have 14 teams and a 40 percent increase in the first division player pool.

 

While it would be great for Rochester to join MLS, could the A-League survive such a big blow? The Rhinos are with out a doubt the leagues #1 team in almost every category?

I hope 1 day when MLS is a healthy, thriving 20 team league, MLS will buy the A-League, increase its stability and healthiness, and then institute promotion and relegation. Just another 30 years boys!

 

What about Rochester Burning Rhino? I like 16 teams league

 

Rochester Rhinos are fine, just get the Ragin' out of there.

 

I think they should go back to 3 divisions with division winners then next 5 most points in the playoffs, just like arguibly Major League Soccer's best season in 2000, when they went to that setup...2004, Major League Soccer's Best Season...come on Chivas and Rochester, wwwhhoooooo!!!!!

 

I thought their stadium was on hold because the NY state was concerned that they were using too much public money, instead of the way the deal was structured when it first came about. Is it a go or not?

I also understood it that DuRoss didn't have "MLS money" in order to pay for the entry fee and that's why they were behind in expansion. My guess is Chivas wants to get in next year and MLS may be willing to wave Rochester's entry fee inorder to get an even number for next year. It would make sense Rochester doesn't have to do much to switch from A-League to MLS, they have everything in place. I know there are fears about expanding too fast like the NASL, but DuRoss and the Rhinos are a solid group. Not the billionairs MLS usually gets, but solid with a profit making outfit. IMO, Vergara is a bigger question mark then DuRoss.

Also I wouldn't mess with anything that Rhinos have now, other then to get some player upgrades to compeate with MLS. Remember this organization was named one the 5 best ran sport franchises in the world, along with names like ManU and NYY. Great front office, great coach, great history, and the best American PBP announcer too(If you haven't had the pleasure of listening to Don Stevens call a game, hopefully you'll hear it next year, wheather they are in MLS or the A-League). The logo and name has history, no reason to switch around because some think it's a little stupid. It works for Rochester, ain't broke don't fix it.

As for the A-League, it would be a big blow for them, IMO. They would lose their signature franchise. Plus they have lost Pittsburg, El Paso, Indiana, Charlotte and Cincinnati(no big lose there) already this year. They would still have Charleston, Minn, MIL, Seattle and Portland and Atlanta is building their own park just like Blackbaud. They would have the Canadian teams, adding Edmonton and there is talk of two more in Hamilton and Ottowa in 2004 or 2005. Then I think Ajax Orlando and a SoFl team(ie Lockhart) will join in 2005 as well. My guess is the A-Leauge would hurt a little this year, but bounce back like it's always done. The big problem will come when MLS comes calling for Seattle, Minn, and MIL one day. Maybe even Atlanta or Charleston.

 

I have no problem with Rochester joining. However, if the long range goals of the MLS is too big a Major Soccer league on par with some mid-major Euro Leagues (i.e. Holland, etc) would Rochester be able to survive without an NFl like TV contract? I doubt it.

If they do enter, I hope they go with a 2 division 6 team top 4 make the playoffs with the Fire in the West.

 

I'm wondering if the Krafts have told MLS that they are folding their cards and walking away from the table. If so, the Rochester option may not be about expansion, but relocation of the Revs.

Realistically, the only quick-fix options are probably Rochester and Philadelphia, and Rochester may make more sense economically.

 

Here's a good question though about this. Is the current US player pool large enough to expand by 40% in two years without suffering a drop in performance?

Also can Rochester survive the increase of their salary cap? I've heard they are the team with the highest cap in the A-League being around 500-700K. MLS's cap is almoast double that.

 

I wouldn't worry about that. MLS has gotten to the point where the top salaried guys are american and the foreigners are in the middle.

What would happen under fast expansion would be we'd see more high quality foreigners brought in to take up the max salary slots, like in the early years of the league. Also, some players who priced themselves out of a salary slot (say Wade Barrett, Dante Washington, etc) might get better offers and return.

The other thing is that good americans are coming up through the system twice as fast as the retirement rate.

The salary cap will continue to be the determiner of league quality.

Looking forward to the MLS Rhinos!

 

I love the idea of Rochester being "promoted" somewhat. We all know that Vergara wants Chivas in the league next year, and that MLS wants an even number of teams. Logically, the only team that could come in on that short notice is Rochester. All they really have to do is upgrade their roster a bit. As far as the salary cap goes, it is a cap, not the minimum. Nothing says they have to go all the way up to $1.? million dollars. Remember, these guys won a US Open Cup with one of those 500k-700k lineups. And nobody's gonna expect them to win it all their first couple years anyway. But being in the single-entity structure, sharing losses with the other teams may also help them spend more money and be competitive right away. This league is built on parity afterall.

 

What I see hurting us here is the players going to Europe, yes for the paychecks, but for the prestege of playing in the European leagues. With 4 more teams the lose of Beasley, Boca, Donavon, Mastroeni, Mathis, Convey, Martino, Buddle et el...added to the players that sign right away with foreign teams would be felt even more then with the current set-up and a slow expansion. Perhaps the stability and profitiblity isn't the main issue in expanding, it's diluting the style of play in MLS.

 

you could be on to something....

 

"local derby" ???

Do people from New Jersey and Rochester regularly visit each others' cities? A local (or regional, to be correct) derby would be Syracuse, Buffalo, or Toronto. New Jersey is over 200 miles away as the crow flies, and over 300 miles car/bus along a series of highways. In terms of road travel, it is almost as easy for people from Rochester to travel on I-90 to Foxboro as it is for them to travel to New Jersey. Cleveland is even easier to travel to and will probably be the road-trip of choice for Rochester fans.

- Paul

 

I was thinking along similar lines, but involving the Quakes instead of the Revs. Perhaps the Quakes could move to Rochester in 2004, and then in 2005 Club America could step in and start up a whole new franchise in the San Jose or Bay area. Perhaps it would be just the "fresh start" that the San Jose area soccer fans needed. After a year without MLS, they might welcome the new club with renewed enthusiasm. Its not like MLS would be losing much by pulling out of there right now.

 

During all this talk about expansion, I've been hoping that players like Dante Washington would get another chance. Unfortunately, I'm afraid that MLS would take a different approach. The league will probably see the average age of its players drop quite a bit if 4 new teams really join. That will lead to a drop in quality of play, at least for the first year or two.

Also, I suspect that Chivas will bring in new players from south of the border. Either to fit under youth international spots, or through green cards, etc. Obviously they won't have only internationals on the team, but I'm sure there won't be 18 "Americans" either.

 

Also, as for Rochester coming into the league in general, its awesome. If any fans deseve it, its them. They've outdrawn MLS teams on many occasions over the past few seasons, and when I saw them play in the Open Cup final a few years ago at Crew Stadium, they had the largest group of traveling supporters I have ever seen in the US. Obviously they only showed up because it was the final, but that doesn't take anything away from the fact that it was still the largest group of supporters I've ever seen.

One thing I like about this story is the supposed November 30 deadline. It will be nice to see a quick end to this particular expansion speculation.