Look man, reading through this thread, it's evident that Chivas USA fans have presented their well thought out arguments and not so well thought out arguments against Chivas USA coach Robin Fraser, not Robin Fraser the family man. Don't try to get personal in here. We're not. Let's get this clear right now so we can continue the discussion.
This is not about Robin the HUMAN. He is the coach and like every other coach in every other sport they are the reason the team is failing. PERIOD!!! you cant fire the players so the coach takes the fall EVERYTIME. The fans are frustrated and Fraser is the only thing that can change midseason. It is admirable that you would stick up for him BUT he knew what he was getting into long before he became ahead coach. he played for many head coaches who didn't deserve to get but did because the team was struggling. It is a tough a job and most of us could not do it as good or better BUT we are not coaches. I guarantee you he could not do my job nearly as good I do it. No one really expect him to, as they would not expect a fan to come out of the stands and become a head coach.
Look, I'm certain Preki and Martin Vasquez worked their butts off too. That's irrelevant to this conversation. I disagree in this respect, I don't think Chivas USA is "failing", but I do think Chivas USA is building from the back. GK (Good), DEF (Good) and then we start to see issues going forward. This isn't a finished product, but rather a work in progress. For example, we get Juan Agudelo back. I'm not saying he's our savior, but give Fraser some time to coach the young man plying with the likes of Correa, Bolanos, and Cardozo. Those are some young/raw players and Fraser deserves the opportunity to see what he can do with those guys. Fraser is working under a "handcuffed" situation and I want to see these guys gel before hastily calling for his job. This is pro sports and not a smoothie. You can't just throw a bunch of players in there. It takes time and we still have 15 games to go.
This isn't Fraser's 1st season with this team it's his 2nd and to be fair he has done a pretty good job on the defensive side of this team that I will give him credit for because it's what he rebuilt in his first season. But that's where giving him credit ends, this season has been nothing short of disappointing we have bunkered against teams that are worst then we are and we have the worst home record in the MLS this season, there is no excuse for that none. Fraser doesn't attack when he is playing at home he prefers to go defense and park the bus; hell we actually play a little bit better on the road then we do at home(which isn't saying very much). You guys who support Fraser put up stats and say how much he has improved this team and yet forget that stats can be very misleading because stats can mean one thing and results can mean another and as far as results go Fraser has not been delivering them. I know losing Agudelo to injury hurt us in the attack but even when he was healthy Fraser still went defense first, and then their is the problem with his player and formation selection, sometimes his selections makes sense and the other times he leaves people scratching there heads(me included). I mean Eric Wynalda has hinted many times that Fraser looks to try and go the way the Crapids did when they went on the MLS cup run and be honest I'm starting to see that too. Bottom line I don't see Chivas USA making the playoffs this year, I know it's too early to call but we are wasting chances to get valuable points and losing to teams we have no business losing too, I know I am not alone in feeling frustrated about this. If Fraser proves me wrong then I'll glad retract what I have said but seeing how poor this teams form is I don't see that happening at all. I still stand by my statement Fraser has to go.
Preki not only had pretty good Football he lead us to 3 winning seasons and got us to the playoffs 3 years in a row, there was 2 problems I had with him: 1. He worked the players in practice so hard that the key players were always injured most of the season not counting the fact key important players weren't available by the time playoffs came around hence our early exit's in 07, 08, and 09 and 2. He was crazy and an asshole. Martin Vasquez problem was he picked the wrong personal to work with him and he refuse to make the necessary changes in his staff that's why the FO fired him otherwise he would have been head coach still.
Big Ty and Pablo you guys make good points. I would however, call every game from here on out, must win (or at least highly encouraged that we win) games. Robin made the mistake of not taking every games outcome lightly last season saying the points don't yet matter because it's early in the season, meanwhile teams like RSL , Seattle Galaxy and every other team started stacking points and next thing we know we're out of the play offs. I'm not for firing coaches after one or two seasons IF they are proven coaches that you know can eventually pay off ala tuca ferreti and ojitos meza. Pumas, pachuca and Cruz azul stayed with these coaches for years with mixed results and for good reasons. Robin thus far has been an unknown quantity. No one is taking away from his professionalism or the fact that he's a straight up gentleman. In these categories he's second to none. I know this project would be hard for anyone but yes we are fans who want results and if not results at least hope. So should we just shut up for now until the youth project begins to pay off ten years from now?
por eso anda bien acelerado !!!! dile a Robin que se ponga las pila que la aficcion quiere un equipo digno de representar a la comunidad en los angeles y a todos los que apoyamos a Chivas de corazon! queremos un equipo con garra, con webos que sienta la playera rojiblanka QUEREMOS HOMBRE ....no Nombres equipo hay para entrar a playoffs y ganar la copa de eso no tengo duda! pongan webos los de Chivas que tenemos que GAnar esta banda esta Reloca no tedeja de alentar en las buenas yo tesigo yo tesigo a donde bas y te JURO que en las malas Nunca TE BOY A DEJAR !!!
Everyone makes really good points, and the 12 goals thing is an eye sore. Saturday in Portland will be really interesting and we will learn a lot about two desperate teams. I'll be happy with any points on the road, and they NEED to get hot @ home! Let's break down the upcoming schedule: @ Portland- I'd like to see the 3 points here. Portland is wounded and beat down, but they did manage to draw in the friendly vs. Aston Villa. There is also a bye week after this game, so getting those 3 points could put our club in a happy mood for 2 weeks vs. LA- Win Win Win---Although, if we get the win against Portland, remember we still have 3 games in against the Galaxy and technically control our own destiny @ Colorado- This is a tricky game. Shorter Week and the altitude are tough. A draw would be a solid result. vs. Seattle- I'm not sold on Seattle and Vancouver being playoff teams and I'd be really happy with 4-6 points vs. Seattle. They still have USOC & Champions League. We can catch this team. @ New England- We've won there the last few years and seem to have good luck in NE. @ San Jose- National TV and a Day before Labor Day. Again, the Goats play tough against San Jose and 4 points in two games is realistic. @ Seattle- See Above **Note** I took that trip up to Seattle a few weeks ago and I would LOVE for our Goats to shock them in Seattle! vs. San Jose- See Above They have an East Coast Swing in September and end the month with a home game vs. RSL. I just want them to creep back into this thing and hopefully have a shot that last week or two of the season.
And that's exactly why I admire the 2012 version of this team. It wasn't pretty, but Van (L), LA (W), & DAL (W) all had road games this weekend, and the Goats held serve. They certainly have many issues with possession, but the team plays hard and has character. They don't have those two categories in the stat sheet. 4 clean sheets in 5 games make me happy. I'm happy for the organization, happy for my friends who made the trip to Portland, and happy for all of the supporters. Now they get a bye week and get ready for part 3 of the SuperClassico!
Happy with the 3 points on the road at Portland, as for your statement you are living on hopes and dreams if you seriously believe that we could make a run for a spot in the playoffs playing this way. The fact that we can only score 1 single goal worries me to no end and I'm sure I am not alone in feeling this way. We got our asses handed to us in the last Classico because we made too many mistakes and we wouldn't take it to the Galaxy, which has been this teams problem through out the season. Seriously what is Fraser afraid of?
I think he might imply that Fraser is more confident in a "bunker" formation than a full "attack" mindset. I've heard this argument before and respect the valid nature of it (14 goals all season). However, we have to play with what we got. At some point, this should all change. ELAC
We have a better squad than any other Chivas USA team in the past (2005-2011) That why we ask for more , we have great attacking players In Portland …. I hate to say it but it’s the truth, WE JUST GOT LUCKY Cuss they sucked “in the first half we could easily be down by 2” If you don’t let the GOAT S go wiled You would never be able to know what we can do PLAYING attacking FUTBOL
I'm sure Robin Fraser had some pretty big input on this trade. Great move Domene & Fraser. It's hard to play attacking football when your guys struggle with possession. This is a solid move and will hopefully lead to better possession and more opportunities.
After our loss to the Galaxy , I think management need to replace Fraser. He is not the "coach" that we thought he would be. Two season is enough, the team play has not improve even with better players. We also acquired some bad trades/signings like Vagenas, Califf and Angel --not totally his fault-- I think they're past it, too slow to be effective in this league. They all need to go next year. Our team under Bob was impressive, you can clearly saw improvements when he took over, sign of a good coach. Preki, tried to maintain what Bob built, but team was going downhill from the the time it was handed to him. Fraser, just like Vasquez, is inexperienced and has not yet found his winning formula as a coach. He will keep experimenting in our team expense. What our team need is a confident head coach, an older one --like a father figure-- that will bring order and stability and know how to winning games.
I havent been on this forum for quite sometime but I still keep up to date with the team. I had to come on to say that Robin has got to go. It almost seems that the team never practices attack pieces.The few times that they get the ball on the other side of the field, all they do is pass back and forth to each other until they loose it. As someone said earlier, there has not been any improvment. I am tiered of Fraisers excuse. I agree that our next coach should be an experienced coach with a proven track record. What the hell is the front office waiting for?
i'm done he needs to go ! time for us to get serious and $$$bring some one that can really help bring Mario Carrillo he knows about soccer ups I mean FUTBOL all say it FIRE ROBIN FRASIER he is not the one enough is enough and I’m tire of the same old story I want a team with heart ! Kennedy you are the best !!!!
bora milutinovic was at the game last night. Not sure if he was a guest of the Galaxy or Chivas But he was in the house
Oooh! Did he finally comb his hair? Here's my take on Fraser and our club. I'm looking for some solid evidence of improvement over his tenure and there is nothing to be found. He's had a chance to make his mark and all we got was a goal total of 14 after 26 agonizing games. WTF! Our entire f'ing club has less goals than Chris Wandolowski! This is purely the product of Fraser's insistence on playing bunker ball each week and hoping to take a lead by divine intervention. I've tried to be patient, but this last match has finally got me convinced that a change is needed. You might as well toss it over to Llamosa for the remainder and spend some time finding a long term and EXPERIENCED coach to turn things around in the offseason. Finally, try your hardest to look farther than the Galaxy alum list to find said coach.
I don't think it was time to panic. The first two goals conceded were the direct results of awful unforced errors from Zemanski and Riley. After that, it was a track meet (which is clearly not good for us). All the coaching in the world can't change the face that those were two horrible passes. I agree that the Goats came out passive, but I don't think firing the coach is not good option here. Continuity should be the priority. Adding Shalrie Joseph is huge and soon he will be partnered up with Minda. Possession and turnovers have been their biggest issues, so giving those guys a chance to play together will hopefully help that. I want to see this group gel and hopefully get better. Robin Fraser is the right man for the job and I refuse to get emotional after a tough loss.
Why is it that you continue to give Fraser excuses and free passes after our worst defeat against the Galaxy since I can remember? Weather you like or not the COACH takes the blame for this, he knows how the Galaxy likes to play and yet will not let his players take it to them a 4-0 beating is completely unacceptable especially to your most hated rival that's ground for termination. Face it this guy does not know what the hell he is doing and he sure as hell doesn't know how to coach this team, losing like this there is no way we make the playoffs this season or the next if he stays on a the Manager of this team, I said this to you before and I'll say it again; this is Fraser's second season with this club and yet this team is playing the same way we did last year and we are in the same position we were in last year. Nothing has changed under this guy I can see this as well as everyone else I'm sure, so why can't you see this as well?
Chivas USA is not like many big clubs. There are no quick fixes. I'm also not the type of person that will get way too high or way too low on results. Winning is good and you should exhibit support for your club afterwards. Losing sucks and every true supporter should feel a sense of disappointment. Extreme responses to either are a little immature in my opinion. The goal for this team right now should be to stick together and let their new personnel gel. This is it; this will be our final roster next 13 games. In our starting lineup Sunday, we had the following first year Chivas USA players: Riley, Valencia, Califf, Joseph, Bolanos, and Agudelo. When Minda starts in Colorado, that will be 7 new starters. These aren't excuses, they are facts. In all fairness to a coach, you must give the man some time to have this roster come together. That's how sports and personnel work. We are not baking a cake here, but rather building a MLS Playoff Contending Team. The Goats are only 2 games under .500 w/l wise and there in a ton of season left. As brought up earlier, coaches like Vermes and Yallop had time to build their teams. Robin Fraser is a winner and the right man for this job now.