Road to Tokyo Olympics 2020

Discussion in 'Japan' started by Dax, Oct 11, 2016.

  1. Dax

    Dax Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 29, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    So exactly like happened with Vahid....

    Personally I am, as I said multiple times in the past here, in the middle ground. I think the manager's responsibilities are being way, way over exaggerated here. And I don't specifically like Moriyasu, I'm totally indifferent about him.
    But I do see an alarming problem of quality in the CBs (the next exciting guy I can think about heights 176 cm and is a 2002), in the central midfielders and, as usual, in the forward.

    I want to remain still a bit hopeful though as players like Shoji got good (if I'm not wrong he barely even played until 21\22) but this is the U23, so it's still concerning. Among the midfielders Ao Tanaka is the only one who looks interesting, and he was still underwhelming here. Though I still think Shunta Tanaka could develop into a surprise.
    The forwards, I'd rather not comment.

    Yes, all of this doesn't change the fact that even a bunch of 'random jleaguers' should beat a team like Syria. But probably, most of these players nowadays are more concerned about which color they should dry their hairs.
    My main problem with Moriyasu is probably related to the fact that I think his system doesn't suit Japan - at least not the U23. Should Moriyasu be stripped off his role in the U23?
    Absolutely, considering this tournament set a new record in the history books. Will players problems be solved then? I'm not so sure.

    It didn't take a mastermind for previous coaches to realize that perhaps the 4-2-3-1 gets the most out of the type of "best players" japan produces...
    I still think the main reason to reasonably criticize a coach, for the most part, is his player selection (both in callups and starting lineups).
     
  2. Saku²

    Saku² Member+

    Aug 22, 2009
    Club:
    FC Salzburg
    You're just too agressive, you need to relax in general. It blurs your vision. The assistant applies the principles of the work he agreed on with the main coach and that's the way they've been operating since the start of their acclaimed collaboration (3 league titles and 2 supercups).

    That doesn't mean you can't be frustrated by the results, we all are.

    I agree.
     
  3. KATO

    KATO Member

    Nov 26, 2011
    Brisbane
    Club:
    Urawa RD
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Outside of the FW, the rest of the players were consistently performing at a high level in the J League through the entire season so I think it’s harsh to call them random J-Leaguers or blame the quality of the U23 generation.

    Guys like Ao Tanaka, Tsuyoshi Watanabe, Daiki Hashioka, Daiki Sugioka, Tsukasa Morishima and Keita Endo all had solid to an excellent year but they suddenly look lost and disinterested for the U23.

    It’s Moriyasu’s deficiency holding this team back but I don’t think the JFA understand this and calling up Euro-based players will not help anything.

    Regarding the FW I hope Kazunari Ichimi is an outside chance if he starts well at Yokohama FC. Otherwise Taichi Hara is a dark horse if Hasegawa actually gives him a chance.
     
  4. teioh

    teioh Member+

    Apr 17, 2012
    Vahid case was quite different.

    WC was not on japanese soil, JFA didn't declare they will won the cup and Vahid was not in charge for U23 and senior team at the same time.

    And I add: Vahid was a gaijin and not even beloved as Zac/Zico were.
     
  5. Dax

    Dax Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 29, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Unfortunately the Jleague matters very little. The list of players who perform well at home but can't perform outside of home soil is long... I've seen all the players you mentioned and, aside from Ao Tanaka, none of them ever impressed me in the JNT, honestly...
     
  6. Samurai Warrior

    Samurai Warrior Member+

    Dec 2, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Speaking about defensive midfielders all of them did well internationally, Taishi Matsumoto at the 2018 Asian Games, Mitsuki Saito at the 2019 U-20 WC, and Shunta Tanaka did well at the 2019 Toulon tournament.

    Hashioka performed very well in the friendly against Brazil last October.

    I agree with you that some players tend to do well in the J-League but fail when playing internationally. However, I would argue here that I think the main problem is not with the players, as much as it is with Moriyasu’s decisions and way of managing the team.

    When he took over the team, the then-core-players had already get used to play in a 3-6-1 formation, but the new emerging J-Leaguers who Moriyasu added to the team in the last year did not.

    If you have a look at this tournament’s squad you will find only 4 or 5 players who get used to play in such formation with their club teams: Sugioka, Hashioka, Suga, Morishima, and Matsumoto. While the majority of this squad did not get used to such thing with their club teams.

    For example, Tsuyoshi Watanabe who had a great breakthrough season with FC Tokyo to the point that he seemed like an established veteran, looked worse than his team-mate Makoto Okazaki when playing for the Olympic team, despite the fact that Okazaki was playing as a sub for Watanabe at FC Tokyo, and in the few times Okazaki played for Tokyo instead of Watanabe the defence weakened significantly.
    My explanation is that Okazaki played more matches for the Olympic team and he is more used to playing in this unorthodox formation.

    This is why, I think, that Tatsuta is a more dependable and solid CB for the Olympic team than Watanabe, because he had almost 2 years of experience playing for the Olympic team, while Watanabe has been just added in the last few months. However, when we compare their performances in the J.League Watanabe is the more dependable and solid and was the first-choice CB alongside Morishige for FC Tokyo, while Tatsuta was mostly not a starter for Shimizu S-Pulse. No need to mention here how FC Tokyo’s defence is far more stronger than Shimizu S-Pulse’s.

    Other decisions by Moriyasu which baffled me was his insistence on starting both Hashioka and Sugioka instead of the likes of Endo, Soma, or Morishima. One can argue here that Moriyasu was attempting not to be way too adventurous and tried playing with more defensive-oriented wingbacks, but even against Syria he still started Hashioka instead of Endo. It does not make any sense to start a defensively-oriented wingback against a team like Syria when you lost your first match.

    Last note on what I think Moriyasu’s mismanagement is his decision to start or play individualistic players instead of team-oriented players. For example, both Meshino and Soma are more individualistic, while the likes of Morishima and Endo are more team-oriented, yet he preferred Meshino and Soma. Moriyasu did not even give Endo any playing time in this tournament despite him providing more assists in last season’s J.League than all of the players in this squad with the exception of Morishima.

    This is said, I don’t think the main problem is with the players, but with Moriyasu. He needs to tune them in the best possible way before the matches, take decisions that will suit the team’s best interest, and utilise the players’ strengths and deal with their weaknesses.

    I think the fact that he was away of the team most of the time did not help, it seems there is no harmony and understanding between him and the players, unlike Yokouchi, who seems to know them better and developed very good understanding with them.


    P.S.
    I almost forgot Moriyasu’s most strange tactic of bringing substations way too late in the matches, and his position-for-position substitutions instead of formation-altering substitutions when the team is in need of such thing.
     
  7. Gordon1995

    Gordon1995 Member+

    Oct 3, 2013
    Shunta Tanaka, Saito, Tanaka, Matsumoto and others like Daiki Matsuoka, Kaneko, etc. are all performing decently at the moment. Japan is currently not lacking at the DM position at the moment, I think finding a creative midfielder ala Shibasaki and Kagawa who can dictate the pace and tempo of the game and Tomiyasu's CB partner are more pressing.
     
  8. HTCONEM8

    HTCONEM8 Member

    Barcelona
    May 16, 2014
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    That and someone who knows how to utilize FK like Shunsuke Nakamura and Yasuhito Endo.
     
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  9. Saku²

    Saku² Member+

    Aug 22, 2009
    Club:
    FC Salzburg
    You all forget the "defensive" word in the defensive midfielder term. Besides Hasebe, and to a lesser extent Hashimoto, there isn't one strong and hard willed defensive midfielder in Japan. The center of our midfield is a revolving door.
     
  10. Gordon1995

    Gordon1995 Member+

    Oct 3, 2013
    I think there is a chance that maybe Yuta Goke or Itakura, etc. might one day be able to play such a role.
     
  11. Saku²

    Saku² Member+

    Aug 22, 2009
    Club:
    FC Salzburg
    Most likely not.
     
  12. teioh

    teioh Member+

    Apr 17, 2012
    Itakura is the answer.
     
  13. yamatoship

    yamatoship Member

    Jun 25, 2019
    I'm not a fan of Moriyasu but it's unfair to judge him when he had to use inexperienced players who were below full fitness.

    J-league is currently in the off-season and Japan had only a short training camp of less than a week before the tournament. In the 2016 edition, Japan spent at least 2 weeks on training camp to improve their fitness.

    Some fans are looking too much into pointless games (U23 AFC, Toulon, friendly with Brazil etc). Japan finished bottom at the 2012 Toulon but a few months later they reached the SF at the Olympics.

    The Copa America was by far the biggest challenge of Moriyasu's U-23 career so far and he had a good campaign there.

    Moriyasu is a realist who doesn't take pointless games seriously. If he doesn't get results at the Olympics on home soil, then ax him. A semi-final appearance will be the minimum requirement.
     
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  14. yamatoship

    yamatoship Member

    Jun 25, 2019
    Japan gave up the possession on purpose and then resorted to counter attacks because of biased refereeing. After the match, Haraguchi said the ref was insane and every 50/50 call went in Saudi Arabia's favor.
    https://www.sanspo.com/soccer/news/20190122/jpn19012202030002-n1.html


    The original source is Tokyo Sports that is a garbage tabloid. Don't take them seriously. JFA president Tashima insists he trusts Moriyasu and understands Moriyasu has been experimenting.

    I have zero expectations from this corrupt confederation. Bribed refs, match fixing, age fraud, ineligible foreigners in NT competitions etc. By the way, 20/23 players in the Syria squad were born in January and 9 players were all born in 1st January. This region is a joke.
     
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  15. seolseol

    seolseol Member+

    Apr 26, 2003
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    They do what they want. As always.
     
  16. HTCONEM8

    HTCONEM8 Member

    Barcelona
    May 16, 2014
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    I just looked it up and...ugh. It literally made my blood boil. And to think we're finally done with the Iraqis cheating but now the Syrians are doing the same shit?!

    The AFC is truly "Arab Football Confederation". While the Gulf nations are infamous for their grassrolling, the Levant ones are infamous for their Age fraud. Sportsmanship my a$$.
     
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  17. Whispered11

    Whispered11 Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Rome, Italy
    Club:
    UC Sampdoria
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    You know, Dragan Stojkovic is free...
     
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  18. Gordon1995

    Gordon1995 Member+

    Oct 3, 2013
    Hiroki Abe is out for 5 months due to an injury, might not be able to make it in time for the Olympics. May be a huge loss for Japan.
     
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  19. Gordon1995

    Gordon1995 Member+

    Oct 3, 2013
    JFA might be planning to set up a permanent office in Dusseldorf to better observe the European players. It is planned to start around March/April this year.
     
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  20. yamatoship

    yamatoship Member

    Jun 25, 2019
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