I apologize for the "labeling" comment if that's not your intent. But I'm not playing politics. The big picture is that the MLS ain't gonna happen here. Ever. WPS won't happen again here. Ever. How long is AC going to survive, given the fact they are going to have to pump more money than ever to keep it alive? Remember that Athletica isn't there to dump all the shared costs on anymore. There is very little corporate support for soccer in this town. Until that changes, any upper level soccer in St. Louis, men's or women's, is not going to happen. I don't think the fans have much effect on this one way or the other, certainly not my little boycott. They already have my money anyhow, so I doubt anybody at AC cares either. I will continue to support WPS and especially our former players any way that I can. I know you will, too. We can agree on that much.
I agree that getting another WPS team will not happen for St. Louis. This was our chance, and there is zero likelihood of any expansion coming here. Moreover, my boycotting AC is more about Mr. Cooper, than AC STL. My son wants my Athletica Tix so he and a group can watch AC, I am weakening, because it's not really the player's fault. However, I can't come to terms with helping in any way to salvage Cooper's NASL project, seeing how that distraction screwed the Athletica.
I'm more optimistic about that. You've got a large soccer community and a perfect facility that will need events (and probably an owner). The issue is nobody is going to get a WPS team without a lot of money, and presumably they'll be even more careful vetting potential owners after getting burned by Cooper and his co-conspirators.
For the St Louis fans, sorry to see your team fold. If you are a fan it is an emotional event. But the reality is that pro sports teams are a business not a hobby. The rationale that the Athletica had the smaller cost and was a top level team is faulty logic. Look at pro sports around the world. The men's teams are better attended, better supported, generate more interest and make more money. Essentially women's sports just do not generate the interest needed to survive and prosper particularly in this down economy. There are exceptions such as Tennesee Women's basketball and UNC womens soccer but those are individual teams that generate interest and attendance not a league. This is not unfair and it is not sexist. It is business and the free market. Let me say that I have never attended a WPS game and did not intend to. I do watch the Sunday games on Fox fairly regularly and also enjoy watching the women's national team. I have nothing against the WPS or women's sports. Just an objective look that when one of the best teams folds after the initial season and another successful team folds in the middle of the second season it does not bode well for the survival of the league. I think the WPS will eventually fold for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that the league was launched in the middle of a recession. Maybe it will not fold...just my expectation.
Maybe I missed this day of class while getting my MBA, but doesn't this: "The rationale that the Athletica had the smaller cost" have a lot to do with this: "But the reality is that pro sports teams are a business not a hobby." "The men's teams are better attended, better supported, generate more interest and make more money." AC St. Louis vs. Athletica better attended? maybe slightly better supported? only by ownership, not by the fans generate more interest? who knows? hard to tell when no money is spent on pr and advertising. make more money? almost definitely not in this case. That's the point. If you were making this decision from a pure business standpoint, it would appear that you would take Athletica, based on the evidence we have.
Enough already. If you are not an Athletica fan or even a fan of womens' soccer why do you waste your time and ours arguing a point you care nothing about. Let the Athletica fans have their space to gripe and rant. What difference can it possibly make to you?
Following that logic you would think advertisers would be running to womens athletics after the mis-adventures of such huge proportions of the current batch of sports icons.
Crog1967, I did not claim to be an Athletica fan but I did say I watch the WPS TV broadcasts and follow the Women's National team. I also enjoy women's college soccer and have been to games in person and usually watch the NCAA tournament. If you personally do not want to waste your time don't read the posts. Really simple. If fans want to vent their frustrations on these boards, it is okay with me, I never told them not to. Just expressing my opinion which I assume you feel should not be done since it is not aligned with yours. Cville KC - I was not comparing AC St Louis to Athletica. I dont know the details in that specific case and my guess would be that most people posting on these boards do not know the specific details that went into the decisions either. I was speaking in more general terms of women's sports. The WNBA only remains because the NBA finances it. I watch the WPS game almost every week on Fox. Those stadiums are not regularly filled for the MLS games but they usually look like ghost towns for the WPS games. I have read the argument that the WPS is the world class league for world class women players. True but the world class men's leagues regularly pack stadiums and generate massive ratings and revenues. The EPL, La Liga, Bundesliga are a few of the men's world class leagues. In the United States MLS and soccer is not the top spectator sport but the NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL all dwarf any women's professional sports league in any sport here. It is not sexist or a conspiracy it is just simply the spectators choice to watch the game they choose to watch and purchase a ticket for the game they wish to attend. I don't know why the Athletica were folded. Maybe the owner thought the women's league had a lesser chance of survival. The first women's soccer league folded and in the first year and a half two WPS teams have already folded. I can see where there may be some concern with league survival. Sorry for the loss of a team you supported. I hope it works out for the WPS fans and players. I don't want to waste anymore of Crog1967's time so I will end this here. By the way Cville KC, congratulations on the MBA.
The objection to your post came from you following your own "simple" rule. You're welcome to your opinion, but when you state it as fact, and your "facts" are already discredited in the thread you're posting in, you might not be projecting the level of coherence you seem to aspire to.
Morris20 - Many of you seem to ignore the facts or you just do not want to face them. I do not know what facts I presented that were already discredited in the same thread but you are also entitled to your opinion and I have no interest in arguing with you. You obviously are a very coherent individual. Do you have an "MBA" too? Wishing the very best to all on this board, the WPS and AC St Louis. I am giving you back your space to "gripe and rant". I did not know I took it in the first place but it is yours once again. Let the ranting begin Athletica!
SF owner gives perspective: RIP Athletica "The league took over the Sol last year but wasn't about to go down that road again with Athletica. "We had no leadership in St. Louis," NeSmith said. "We weren't going to save (club founder Jeff Cooper) at that point." In a statement last week, Cooper said the Vaid brothers defaulted on a contract to fund the team, but the league's other owners aren't happy that Cooper didn't bring the Vaids before the league board in the first place. "I don't know if he was duped by them," NeSmith said. "He said he would put $3 million aside for the season, and he didn't." http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/06/04/SPU91DQ17K.DTL&feed=rss.sports
Re: SF owner gives perspective: RIP Athletica Certainly seems like confirmation of what so many of us thought about Cooper!! I wonder what his supporters have to say now.
Re: SF owner gives perspective: RIP Athletica I think this is the best sign we could have from this club since it seems to one most are worried about
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic.../SPU91DQ17K.DTL&feed=rss.sports#ixzz0qPtXSj6q But still begs the question. Shouldn't WPS have followed up closely?
Can't argue with that. Never trust a smooth talking PI attorney worth 200 mill. I guess. They had better have learned their lesson from this whole Cooper debacle.
Just an updated list of our former (2010) players and where they've gone: Atlanta Beat: Lori Chalupny, Eniola Aluko, Carolyn Blank, Tina Ellertson, Hope Solo, Aya Miyama. Boston Breakers: Lindsay Tarpley Chicago Red Stars: Anita Asante, Elise Weber FC Gold Pride: Shannon Boxx Philadelphia Independence: Tina DiMartino Sky Blue FC: Kendall Fletcher Washington Freedom: Ashlyn Harris W-League: Daniela (Hampton Roads Piranhas), Erin Walter (Colorado Force) So we have at least one reason to cheer for each of the seven remaining WPS teams. If anyone knows any news of any of the other players, please post it. I'm thinking about starting a separate thread to post news about our former players. And make no mistake about this, the team may be officially gone, but it will live on through Laclede's Army, our fans, and our former players. Last week's game in Chicago was proof of that.
Re: SF owner gives perspective: RIP Athletica "I don't know if he was duped by them," NeSmith said. "He said he would put $3 million aside for the season, and he didn't." There is NO WAY Cooper could still have any supporters unless they are in SERIOUS denial and/or downright delusional!! It's been incredibly obvious all along that IF Cooper really wanted to save the Athletica they'd be playing right now!!
Re: SF owner gives perspective: RIP Athletica The Saturday Soccer Report is on right now and they're STILL saying it's sponsored by the St.Louis Athletica! They haven't even talked about them yet though with the biggest USA game in DECADES on if a few minutes. The show has been off the past 2 weeks to suspiciously coincide with the death of the Athletica.
I went to Sunday night's W-League game at the Soccerplex between the Freedom Futures and the Piranhas in part for the hope of seeing Daniela play, but there was no sign of her, not on the field, on the bench, or on the roster in the program.
Re: SF owner gives perspective: RIP Athletica It might be if they paid in advance. There's a stadium in Denver that's named for a corporation that doesn't exist any more.
Maybe she isn't healthy enough yet or hasn't been cleared yet. Here's the news clip from the USL/W-League: http://www.uslsoccer.com/home/436683.html "Hampton Roads Piranhas Press Release - www.hrpiranhas.com Wednesday, June 2, 2010 Virginia Beach, Virginia – The Hampton Roads Piranhas are proud to announce that Brazilian World Cup and Olympic star "Daniela" (Daniela Alves Lima) will play with the W-League Piranhas through 2011, pending U.S. Soccer Federation and USL approval. Daniela played for the Piranhas in 2005. Daniela will arrive in Hampton Roads on Thursday and will be with the Piranhas’ squad on Saturday, June 5, when the team hosts the Northern Virginia Majestics. Kickoff is scheduled for 7:30 p.m. at the Virginia Beach Sportsplex." Note that I did see her in the lobby area of Soccer Park after the last two home games that Athletica played. But in both cases, she was sitting, so I couldn't tell if she still had a limp or anything like that. Even after Athletica waived her, she was still with them, I'm assuming to rehab and practice whatever she was able to.
I think we have a total of four (4) girls now in Chicago... Asante, Weber, Nikki Washington (Athletica only got her on May 8th, if memory serves me correctly), and I don't recall the other one. But looking through the players on their website, they have Jillian & a Billiken player, Meghann Burke. We talked to the President & GM of the Red Stars (Marcia) before the Red Star/Atlantica game & she reminded us they had 4 players from our team. I apologize as I think I missed someone...maybe.
I always hesitate to name Washington because I don't think Athletica ever officially signed her. They had her rights, but I don't think the contract was ever completed. Chicago has Weber and Asante from this year's team and Loyden and Lydia Vandenbergh from last year's team. Vandenbergh started the season with Athletica last season, but never got in a game. When we got Fletcher and Welch, Sheree Gray was waived and then signed back onto the developmental squad and then Vandenbergh was released. She then signed with Chicago and played a few matches with them. Vandenbergh later went on to play with the Central Coast Mariners in the Australian W-League last fall with Loyden (who at that time was still with Athletica) and Kendall Fletcher.
The beginning of the end came the second week when attendance was at or below the minimum the commisioner stated they needed to survive. I mean hell we've got teams averaging under 3000 distributed tickets a game this year, and the team with the vaunted Marta can't draw over 4000. Numbers that low are not sustainable and it was only a matter of time things like this started.
When did Antonucci say the league MUST average at least 4,000 a game?? That's shortsighted of her if she did say that because she should know that there was never any guarantee that they could get 4K for every team. It looks like at least 3 teams will have attendances averaging in the 3,000 range and maybe 1 team averaging below 3 thousand. But they should designate player/staff salaries appropriately knowing attendance could dip to around 3,000. I mentioned in another thread how I spoke to the Athletica office just 2 or 3 days before they folded and I was told ticket sales were UP for the June 9th game and they expected their biggest crowd since the opener for the June 9th game. With school being out and all that he told me attendance will see a boost.