Richmond, VA - huge potential

Discussion in 'MLS: Expansion' started by RichmondRowdy, Oct 28, 2011.

  1. RichmondRowdy

    RichmondRowdy New Member

    Nov 21, 2010
    Richmond
    Club:
    Richmond Kickers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hi guys,
    First time posting here. I currently live in Richmond, VA and go out to Kickers games every so often. What do you guys think about Richmond getting an MLS team?
    Richmond has a quirky/hipster side that is very similar to Portland, Oregon, that I feel is ideal for the future MLS soccer fans. Our attendance numbers for the Kickers aren't amazing but we do average 2,000 people per a home game and have been around since 1993.......mind you our owner doesn't believe in alcohol so all these people come out without being able to buy alcohol at the game.

    If Richmond was able to pull itself together to build a stadium and had a better marketing strategy towards young adults rather than the current "soccer mom," we could have something special here. Virginia doesn't have any professional sports teams and is currently the largest state without a professional sports team. If we had an owner with vision, MLS would be very successful here.
    What do you think?
     
  2. DynamoEAR

    DynamoEAR Member+

    May 30, 2011
    New England
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ehhhh. i hate to bust your bubble, but Richmond imo would only be good in NASL. Low TV market, other factors...... but, you should keep dreaming about that potential kickers-DCU game in the open cup one day.
     
  3. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    The Richmond-Petersburg MSA had a 2010 Census population of just over 1.25 million, putting it 43rd in metro area population.

    While the 2000-2010 growth rate of 14% isn't shabby, Richmond area population would have to start growing at a much, much faster rate to put Richmond on the radar for any major league team.
     
  4. Macsen

    Macsen Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 5, 2007
    Orlando
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Richmond is 57th in media market size.

    Not gonna happen.
     
  5. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    I assume you meant Open Cup final. DCU & the Kickers have already played in the US Open Cup.
     
  6. tallguy

    tallguy Member+

    Sep 15, 2004
    MoCoLand, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Tidewater Area is projected to be the 38th largest media market in 2030 based on recent population trends and Richmond is projected to be the 43rd largest market. Maybe, a regional team centered somewhere around Williamsburg would be a viable site for MLS expansion in another decade or so.
     
  7. Achowat

    Achowat Member+

    Mar 21, 2011
    Revere, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not in a League where there are only ever going to be under-30 teams
     
  8. bullsear

    bullsear Member

    Feb 17, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    I really don't see the Triangle Area developing into an MLS level market, but then again, I don't live there.

    Richmond has done a great job of supporting the Kickers. I just hope that rather than wishing on a star for MLS to drop something into their laps, more soccer fans in the area start supporting their (very good) local product.

    Oh, and I hope they come to NASL ;)
     
  9. RichmondRowdy

    RichmondRowdy New Member

    Nov 21, 2010
    Richmond
    Club:
    Richmond Kickers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We have a lot of fans here and a very good youth development league. To be honest, I think our main problem is that our current owner gears the game towards young children. Alcohol isn't sold at any of the Richmond Kickers games. From the recent success of many MLS clubs, a stadium built in the city with young adult fans will ultimately drive the bus. We have the young demographic in the city, we just need an owner with a stadium and a better marketing approach.

    In regards to market size, Richmond has a better market than Salt Lake City but Salt Lake has a team. I think MLS is going to need to be creative with it's team locations. If we compete against NFL cities, the NFL will win. If we go to cities that currently have no team or an NHL/NBA team, the city will embrace the MLS team. Just a thought.
    By the way Bullsear, I think Minneapolis would be an excellent candidate for the MLS.
     
  10. FlipsLikeAPancake

    Jul 6, 2010
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This argument is used all the time as the justification for why a mid level market should be in MLS.

    There are two problems with that argument:

    1. Salt Lake City had an rich owner willing to pay the entrance fee and build a soccer specific stadium. Until your city does, the comparison is pointless.

    2. Salt Lake City is constantly underestimated as a market.

    You claim that Richmond is a better market than Salt Lake? Oh really?

    http://www.tvb.org/media/file/TVB_Market_Profiles_Nielsen_Household_DMA_RANKS.pdf

    Salt Lake City: 33rd TV market
    Richmond-Petersberg: 57th TV market

    People often just look at the metropolitan area data to conclude that Salt Lake City is small, ignoring that the team is in Sandy and thus also highly accessible to Provo, which is growing rapidly.

    I'm amused that you argument here is that MLS should go to cities without teams in the other major sports, and then you list Minneapolis as an excellent candidate for MLS - a city with an NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL team.
     
  11. RichmondRowdy

    RichmondRowdy New Member

    Nov 21, 2010
    Richmond
    Club:
    Richmond Kickers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Minneapolis would be successful and we all know it, but I feel some people on this board only look at major cities for future expansion. For MLS to be successful we need to be in areas that have fans make MLS the number 1 sport. Right now Virginia is the largest state without a professional sports team. Richmond is one of the biggest cities in Virginia and is one of the only major cities with a condensed urban area unlike Virginia Beach which is mainly military and sprawls out.

    The potential is here.
     
  12. ImNumberTen

    ImNumberTen Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There is a reason for this. Virginia will not give ANY type of government support to get stadiums built; not bonds, not money for roads, not a tax break, nothing.

    Jack Kent Cooke wanted to build his stadium in Virginia but he got zip. The Nationals looked had at Arlington and they got zip.

    American football and baseball teams got nothing, and you think a soccer club can get a stadium built in Virginia? No chance.

    I like Richmond and the state of Virginia, but Richmond is just too small a market. Let this go, man.
     
  13. lugger

    lugger Member

    Sep 5, 2010
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    They don't even need to build a new stadium though...

    They have three options
    Richmond City Stadium, they already play in this, capacity is what MLS is aiming for, however, it is kind of old and I'm not really digging the wrap around part of the stadium, seems to kind of destroy the homely atmosphere if everything is far apart.

    The Diamond
    It's home to a minor league baseball team. If they can't push a minor league team out of the stadium, they have problems. But, there shouldn't be, so give it some Portland Timber expansion love and put some other stands in.
    They'd only really need 5k to 8k seats to make it respectable, they're already at 12,000 for baseball configuration

    Last one, this one is kind of iffy
    Hovey Field
    it looks kind of rough, but capacity is around 10,000
    Though the stands themselves look like they're going to fall apart if more than 20 people get on them.

    and there looks me like there is a small parking lot next door. thats it. no other parking.

    Once again, best possible ways of not having to build a whole new stadium, stay in Richmond City Stadium and maybe put some money into renovation, or get the Diamond, which would require more money but I think, in the long run would work out much better.
     
  14. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

    Oh, wait. You're serious.

    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
     
  15. nlsanand

    nlsanand Member+

    May 31, 2007
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Honestly, I wish MLS fans would be more open to ideas like this. If the requirement for MLS teams is to build 100 million stadiums, we'll eventually run out of millionaires willing to subsidize. Also, it basically makes any team either:

    a) a money loser (at least based on GAAP net income)
    b) a team which is benefitting from a huge money thrown at it from governments.

    Again, if you really think of it. After a $40 million expansion fee and a $100M stadium, how does any investor get a real ROI? Either you need a government subsidy (usually for a stadium) or a willingness to supply your wealth earned somewhere else on a team, or both.
     
  16. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    You've obviously never been to the stadium in question.
     
  17. Achowat

    Achowat Member+

    Mar 21, 2011
    Revere, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, first off is that we don't want millionaires to buy the teams, we want billionaires. But more importantly we want billionaires committed to growing the game. There is nothing special about Vancouver/Seattle/Portland (well, except that they are not 4-sport towns) and that atmosphere and energy can be built anywhere, if only the owners want it
     
  18. nlsanand

    nlsanand Member+

    May 31, 2007
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    So this league should exist at the whim of the 1%? We could lower our expectations a bit as fans. Not every club will be Man City. At least some teams in the league should be organically profitable.
     
  19. nlsanand

    nlsanand Member+

    May 31, 2007
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    True, my point was more general in nature.
     
  20. Achowat

    Achowat Member+

    Mar 21, 2011
    Revere, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This League exists at the whim of the 1%, and always had. We tried the 'organic' thing and the 'letting the 2-70% buy teams' thing and neither of them worked.

    By the way, how many EPL teams do you think are owned by the 99%?
     
  21. westau

    westau Member

    Feb 11, 2009
    Atlanta
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A smaller city only 2 hours from a city that already has an MLS team. Let's do it!! :cool::cool:

    Let's also give Hartford, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, San Diego, Bakersfield, Fresno, Sacramento, and Buffalo teams.
     
  22. nlsanand

    nlsanand Member+

    May 31, 2007
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    That team won't be there for long.
     
  23. Chowda

    Chowda Member

    Sep 13, 2004
    Rhode Island
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Were you the one who put the Patriots in Foxborough? :)
     
  24. Macsen

    Macsen Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 5, 2007
    Orlando
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here's an even better list from Nielsen, same data year, one that compares this year's size with last year's.

    http://www.nielsen.com/content/dam/corporate/us/en/public%20factsheets/tv/nielsen-2012-local-DMA-TV-penetration.pdf

    If they're projecting Richmond to halve its rank from 57 to 30 in 20 years, they've got work to do. They're only projected to gain 890 TV households this season.
     
  25. C-bus

    C-bus Member

    Aug 2, 2006
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As a Richmond resident I would love that. But this place is smaller than Columbus, which is struggling to get people into its stadium. Anything is possible but it would require a billionaire to put a brand new stadium downtown and tons of top dollar marketing. And after all that, it probably wouldn't be profitable.

    Now to play devil's advocate in the original poster's favor, Richmond is home to the largest adult soccer league in the U.S. so the interest in soccer is definitely there.
     
    Laramie repped this.

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