Re: Re: regarding Taiwan I think he was joking -- thus the use of the "bullet in the back of the head" phrase. This is the prefered method of execution in the PRC (and then they charge your family for the bullet).
Re: Re: regarding Taiwan Taiwan is part of China. Taiwan is not an independent nation. Taiwan just a province. You better ask Ludahai about this one. He is living in Taiwan so he knows a lot of better than you do. I quoted something from his recent post:
Re: Re: Re: We're actually in agreement Look, Hyok, there isnt much point in discussing this any more. I dont know why you try to say that I am claiming "Japan is such a nice, progressive country as you are making it sound." Im not trying to whitewash the situation. Im just trying to tell you facts rather than stereotypes. In my life, I have lived in the United States, Japan, India, Indonesia, Fiji and France. Japan is certainly no worse than the United States when it comes to institutionalised racism, and it is definitely better than France, Indonesia or Fiji (ask some ethnic Chinese Indonesian what it is like to live as a "citizen" of Indonesia, or and ethnic-Indian Fijian about their treatment in Fiji). I havent tried to say that Japan is some paradise of enlightenment and liberal utopian brotherhood. What I AM saying is that it isnt as bad as your posts have claimed. Yes, there is still discrimination against Koreans in Japan, but the things you have been posting sound like your view of the situation is based on what Japan was like in the 1960s or 1970s. The barriers for people to naturalise are simply not that high any more. And Ive spent much of my adult life trying to do things to make it even better. The main reason why not many people naturalise is that they do not WANT to. Most people who come here do so only "temporarily", to make money. They do not really want to spend the rest of their life in Japan. Another reason is that Japan is very lax on allowing people to come here and work illegally. They are tolerated and not persecuted and sent home or deported, like happens in the US or France, and many other countries. However, once you have worked in Japan illegally, you throw away your chance of ever naturalising. So unlike the US or France, where economic migrants stay and become citizens, in Japan, economic migrants (unskilled people who come in order to work and make money) usually are stuck in a situation where they have to go back home eventually. In some ways, you might say that this constitutes a barrier to immigration. But if you can find a way to come to Japan legally on a visa, and dont break the law by working illegally, this doesnt apply. As for the issue of losing your ethnic identity, once again your comments sound like you are living in the past, at least ten or fifteen years ago. There are lots of naturalised Japanese with Korean or Chinese names nowadays. Ethnic-Korean Japanese hold positions in many local governments, and are actually OVERrepresented in high-class occupations like the financial industry or engineering (probably because they had to learn three languages when they were young, and that tends to make them better educated). Whether you want to admit it or not, discrimination in Japan is not as bad as it is in the vast majority of countries in the world. You are absolutely right in saying that it still has room for improvement. That is true everywhere. Including Korea, I might add. Saying that racism is bad, and should be fought against is one thing. As a person who has been fighting against racism all my life, Im on the same side as you on this issue. But bashing Japan as if it was the only racist country in the world is another thing altogether.
well 2200 years ago, there could be millions of people in Japan already. If Xu Fu really settled in Japan with 6000 boys and girls, they would be just minority there. btw, I m very skeptical Xu Fu actually sailed more than 200 miles to Japan with 6000 boys and girls. if you just think about it more, you would know its almost impossible unless Xu Fu knew his destination really well, and also the people who lived there.
Re: Re: Re: regarding Taiwan thats's cuz mainland chinese fled to Taiwan setup goverment and claimed they were real chinese government and stands for whole China.
Re: Re: Re: Re: We're actually in agreement You are right that there is no point in further discussion. I really hope to see no more posts on this topic from you. I don't know about other readers of your post, but you DO make Japan sound like some progressive, liberal country. Every negative is countered by some odd exception to the rule. The fact that you believe I'm bashing Japan as the only racist country explains your irrational behavior. Japan certainly is not the only racist country in the world, and many Koreans would readily admit that Koreans are very biased against non-Koreans. There is absolute nothing in my posts that indicate otherwise. Ooh, I'm living in the past. Ten, 15 years ago...geez, Japan has completely changed in ten years. Please. Besides, I lived in Japan five years ago, still have friends I still keep in contact with right now. Attitudes do not change overnight. By your logic, I lose the right to speak aobut something once I had a good night's sleep. After all, that is ancient history. You throw around your physical appearance and your family relations like some kind of badge. So what? Do you think that allows you some special credibility? Shouldn't your writings stand on their own merits? I could also go around and reveal that I married a Japanese girl, but for some reason, in some arenas, that is accorded some undeserved credibility, so I chose not to. My mother-in-law was born in Canton, China, during WWII, so does that suddenly raise my credibility in your eyes? How about the fact that my mother-in-law read Gomikawa Junpei's "Ningen no Chouken" ("Ingan ui Jokun" in Korean)? Does that lend me more credibility? Do you want to know something else? My wife would back me up on this. A white foreigner is treated very differently in Japan from a fellow Asian. Another recent development is that black foreigners are considered really "cool" these days. My black friend wants to spend the rest of his life in Japan because of his popularity with the women. You know something else? At one time in history, before the Meiji Restoration, it was "cool" to be Korean too. Sorry if this sounds dismissive, but you can't know what it is like to be Korean in Japan because you are white. You live in a totally different reality. Also, a lot of your points are derived from personal experiences and heresay, but they do not tell the whole story. I could have done the same, but I chose not to. Do I have to recount how a girl refused to talk to me after I revealed that I was an American of Korean extract? What about the time I went fishing and my Japanese friends told the boat owner that I was Chinese to avoid possible negative repercussions, since they were calling me Ri-san? Or what about the rude guy behind the counter who practically threw the change at us, after hearing us speak Korean, when in the past he had been friendly when we spoke English? No, I did not mention them before because they are individual incidents that could have powerful impact without giving an fair picture of the whole. Please do me a favor and stop replying to me. I'll stop replying to you. Deal?
Another flame war Hey Noobie, It looks like you sparked a flame war with what we would believe is an innocuous comment. I was rereading Hong's book, and he offers several theories on why Japanese scholars decided to conjur up a new history for Japan. Hyok
shut up hyeok. let me ask you something. What is the point of starting all of this here? you all of sudden brought up some history thing or korean-japanese things and after you claimed whatever you wanted, you said "now, let's talk about football!!" which you hardly did and now you came back to "discuss" this further. Mato's replying to you since YOU started this and keep replying this. Before telling him to stop replying just because you don't wanna read it EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE THE ONE WHO STARTED, YOU shut the FUCK up and bring your political or history things to a place where more people would pay attention to your story than anybody in the football forums. Too funny to read you said you wondered if you had to bring up personal thing and actually did. Now as the courtesy to your post, do I have to bring up MY personal story about Koreans which normal people won't even believe? Go home my frined.
Nice. Look Hamaguri, Bakagai or whatever the hell your name is, pay me the courtesy of spelling my name correctly, especially since it is right in front of your ignorant face. Whatever I posted was due to the confusion that arose over so-called "North Korean schools" and "South Korean schools" in Japan AMONG the Korean posters. I did not go out of my way to "educate" the Japanese on the subject, because, frankly I don't think they care. I suggest the back button if you are interested truly finding out instead of spouting off your half sensible mumblings. If you don't like it, you don't have to read it. No one is holding a gun to your head and making you read it.
hahaha, it seems like after all you are just "one of them." keep barking. i thought you quited posting in this thread when i realized you didn't reply me immediately, but nice try my man. btw, just like you don't think you go out for educating us since we don't care, the most of BS posters don't think they can educate koreans because they think all koreans like yourself care is ..... Oops my bad, now i see someone go for editing this one or before that I may see some friendly replies. Or should I tell them "If you don't like to read it, you don't have to read it?" BTW, I have another question. How does keep calling someone ignorant when they don't understand or care mitigate your frustration???
hyok is right, i was the one who was confused about north and south korean schools in japan, his post that explained it helped to clear everything. and then matsu started replying....and boom flame war.
Re: Another flame war Flame war??? Reread the above and tell me exactly when it became a flame war. Ive been trying to respond in very logical and calm tones, simply to correct some of your misconceptions. Im not accusing you of anything, or criticising you, or saying bad things about Koreans, or anything along those lines . . . . So lets see what I have done to spark a flame war I have tried to point out that negative Korean attitudes about Japan are not entirely accurate, or may be based on some misunderstandings. I offset this by admitting that there was definitely prejudiced against Koreans in Japan. However, I wanted to make sure that you didnt go overboard by making incorrect statements, which detract from your argument. For some reason, Koreans on this board appear to get wound up into a frenzy of anger by anyone who tries to claim that Japan is not really a horrible, racist, hellish place, and who offers solid evidence to support this point. It seems like they cant stand to hear anyone say anything positive about Japan. . . . . . THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A FEW MINUTES . . . . !!!!!!!!!! I feel sad that this topic became a "flame war", but if it did, I think you people had better do some serious soul searching to think of why this happened, and how it happened. Personally, I have lots of Korean friends and I know that Koreans are not all chip-on-your-shoulder nationalist race-baiters. But a very large percentage of the ones in this forum fit into that category. Congratulations Hyok, you just managed to associate yourself in the minds of non-Korean posters with the likes of Korea_Fighting and Chachi King. Im sure that makes you very proud.
Matsu, You're such a joke. First, casualfan is Chinese. And this "flaming war" has been between you and Hyok, which I don't think you had much of an argument. Then all of a sudden you're making it into anti-Korean thread. Clever!! Just like Seoulman once said "how very Japanese." And I thought you were gone for good?
Hey, I didn't mean to start a flame war. The topic just morphed into one about Korean and Japanese history, and one of the posts about the common history between Korea and Japan reminded me of the Hong book, which I found one of the more interesting historical accounts I have read. I think anyone with at least a passing interest in K-J relations should read it. It was kind of dismissed as a crackpot theory until Akihito dropped his shock announcement. The book probably is not totally accurate (no book about history is), but the Pakeche = Yamato theory has been given new ammunition by the Emperor himself. Hopefully, this will inspire new scholarship and research.
I didnt think I was talking to you, WuTang. As if your past history on this board hasnt already destroyed the credibility of your response. But OK, in order to humour you, lets take this rationally. Imagine that I posted a message in which I claimed something like "In Korea, there is a law that says you have to register your dog at the government office. After the dog becomes 10 years old, they come and take it away and give it to the butcher, so it can become someone's dinner" Now naturally that is a load of rubbish. So Im sure that if someone said such a thing, you would want to set the record straight, and make sure that anyone reading the thread would know the truth. Hyok started out by posting a fairly reasonable comment, but he made the errronious claim that Japan treats North Korea as if it is a nonexistent ancient country. Of course, anyone who has watched the news inthe past two days can see for themselves what Japan's actual diplomatic relations with North Korea are. What Hyok said was factually incorrect, and I merely wanted to provide the correct information. Next he claimed that in Japan you are forced to change your name and give up your "Koreanness" if you want to become a Japanese citizen. Again, this is factually incorrect. I am a living proof of this, as is my close friend Andrew Kim (I think his legally registered name in Japan is something like "An-Yong Kim", but everyone I know calls him Andrew), who I worked with for five years at Salomon Smith-Barney. The FACT, I repeat, the FACT, is that Japan has no laws that force you to change your name. Once again, whether his intention was good or bad, Hyok posted something that was factually incorrect, and I was only trying to provide the correct information. But I never once heard him admit that what he said earlier was mistaken. Instead, he seems to deliberately try to shift the discussion to whether or not Japan is a prejudiced country. WHY??? I dont mean to make assumptions about what Hyok intended, but if you continue trying to move a discussion away from the issue of what you said originally (which was not factually correct) and shift it to a blanket criticism of Japan for racism, well I think you have to accept the blame it it degenerates into a more hostile conversation. To take my original example, it would be as if somebody challenged my original statement about dog licenses, and I replied by saying "Oh yeah!! So youre claiming that Koreans dont eat dogs? Youre a liar!!" In exactly the same way, this shifts the discussion from my original claim (which was incorrect) to a more general claim, which is correct but is also deliberately provocative. As for Noobie's original post, I thought that was a perfectly innocuous statement. As most archaeologists in Japan already admit, the line of kings that started the Imperial line almost certainly moved into Japan from southern Korea, around 100-400 AD. There is even a legend in Tottori prefectrue that says the god Susanowo was looking at the lands in Asia and he thought there was too much land in the southern tip of Korea, so he cut some of it off, and attached it to the northern shore of Tottori. Anyone who has studied legends and myths can see that this probably refers to a large influx of Korean people from southern Korea to the San-in part of Japan. This never had to turn into a hostile discussion. Go back and read my posts and Hyok's, and see which one is making the more antagonistic comments. I simply posted corrections of information which was clearly and demonstrably false. If Hyok had the slightest bit of self-respect, he would admit that what he posted before is wrong, instead to trying to shift the discussion into some debate on prejudice in Japan. The fact that he didnt do so just proves that maybe this was his original intention all along.
yeah the stupid homo kept mentioning ************ about us and everytime he screw in his comment, he made it even worse so i, with courtesy, gave him back a little bit ************ about china which soon deleted by the supermod. just recalling some comment from someone here. "Koreans are dog eater." Let's discuss. Or do you prefer the Vietnam war? it's up to you. How japanese and very korean, yet so chinese. Let's discuss this one too
While Im at it, what the bloody hell does this have to do with what I posted. I was responding to Hyok, who was responding to noobie. What has that got to do with what nationality casualfan happens to be??? Are you really that hard up for reasons to start a conflict? Like I said in my first post, since when have you had any credibility whatsoever?
I don't see where you had directly flame on casualfan neither. wangtang guy just wanted to emphasize that in a few occasion non-korean support koreans because as far as i remember, in most of case they had to protect themselves everywhere they have fights. hmm..... am I again tempted to see more reaction from them so i just posted this? yeah yeah yeah, how-japanese are also desparate to wipe their ass, so don't snort too much. And am i also tempted to say the following to see what happens next? "To all of koreans, if you do not like this, just don't read. Nobody is pointing a gun at your head." my next curiousity seeks who will be the last person to post on this thread. will this post be the last one? seriously, this never ends, does it? that's ok, we have more traffic here when we have fights.
Re: Re: Another flame war I promised not to reply to you, but I just wanted to clarify what I meant by "flame war." Noobie made a remark, almost as an after thought, about Japan's version of history being a medieval version of Taiwan's claim to legitimacy. Then an argument erupted about Taiwan and China, and whether Taiwan was the legitimate China or whether it is a part of China, etc. The "innocuous" statement I'm referring to is the reference to Taiwan, and the "flame war" is the China/Taiwan discussion that followed. Really, my discussion has been mostly about the Japanese gov't, not its people. I have found most Japanese to be kind and gracious. It is difficult to believe that its gov't behaves in such distateful manner. But then again, it is not a true democracy in a lot of ways anyway, so that explains it. (please no flames on this. I know that legitimate claims that Korea is not one either can be made). Also, on the contrary, the trip to NK by Koizumi actually proves me right, rather than wrong (addressing something you said on another post). The trip was made to move towards a more normal relationship, because an abnormal one exists right now. Look Matsu, I found your posts enlightening and interesting. I still hold that opinion. However, I do not agree with some of your conclusions. You and I seem to come to different opinions based on the same facts, sometimes. I admit I was irritated at you, but all will be forgotten. By the way, I would be embarrassed to be defended by the likes of Premiumhama ;-) Later.
Re: Re: Re: Another flame war is this your way of saying "I'm not like you!!" "I'm a lot smarter and better and educated than you!!" "BOOOBOOOBOO!!"? don't worry, you are not the first one. i have some others here who screwed up before and left the lovely scent of their fart. after their last pathetic attempt, they all hid somewhere and came back as if nothing happened.