Rhapsody in Blue: Christian Pulisic at Chelsea

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by Balerion, Jun 30, 2014.

  1. HScoach13

    HScoach13 Member

    Nov 30, 2016
    Club:
    Atlanta
    All of them when he took the job as manager.
     
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  2. dougtee

    dougtee Member+

    Feb 7, 2007
    exactly. he didnt ask for kante so i guess the board can sell him?
     
  3. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    How about a trigger warning before just blurting that out …?
     
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  4. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Kai does have a broken finger. I don't really know if that's the reason he didn't play or if he is being rested. All the players are tired. Chelsea has played the most games in the league. Now as some of the others catch up, they will also face fixture congestion and fatigue. Chelsea has played 6 more games than Burnley. WTF!
     
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  5. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT
    Chillwell and James had been out for months now, and yet TT still haven't been able to adapt or make proper adjustments to deal with these losses.
     
  6. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ben Chilwell since the end of Nov and Reece James since then end of Dec. Both players are very fast and good defensively. Alonso and Azpilicueta have been asked to replace them, but they simply don't have the speed nor the defensive ability. It's a step down. Reece will be back next month. At the end of last season, after Chelsea won the CL, I said that Man City and Liverpool were better teams, but I was mocked ;). Well Man City and Liverpool are still better, but Chelsea will keep hold of 3rd place and make a run in the CL. They will slip past Lille and hope for a good quarterfinal draw. 2 wins later and they are into the semifinals where I think they go bye-bye.

    Don't worry, Uncle Thomas will be back next season. :cool:
     
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  7. Sufjan Guzan

    Sufjan Guzan Member+

    Feb 13, 2016
    I actually personally do know Santa. Well the closest thing to Santa. I know the guy who has been doing the Macy's Day Parade for a couple decades. He is a very nice man. the beard is real. He was originally a redhead. Name's Bill.
     
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  8. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    Azpi is getting old, but declining athleticism aside, I don’t know anyone else who considers either Chilwell or James a better defender. Azpi has been in the conversation for best wide defender in the league in the past. He has forgotten more about defending that either of those two (who are much better offensively) yet know.
     
  9. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    I kinda agree with everyone. Tuchel is in some trouble and it's not entirely his fault. It's a weird roster and depends so much on wingbacks for attack. When's the last time any player put the team on their back and won a game? When's the last time a player has created danger off the dribble and unlocked the opponent's defense? Is that all Tuchel's fault or a combination of factors - health, ability, form, players not played to strengths, poor fit, etc.?

    Werner has looked awful, Havertz, Pulisic, and Lukaku haven't been very good and while I don't think it's all the coaches fault, it's much more likely he will get the blame if they can't turn it around. At one point before the downturn they looked like one of the best teams in Europe. It doesn't help that he seems to be a prickly character.

    Partly goes to show how tough the PL is - teams like Brighton can give anyone trouble. What City has accomplished even with the money they spend is pretty darn remarkable.
     
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  10. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    Chilwell and James were a huge part of Chelski's offense as well. Which is why losing them both is a big blow. Even just losing Chillwel hurt. But TT has not been able to make the adjustment, which is somewhat due to the fact they are both pretty hard to replace. TT's best argument, if he things don't turn around substantially, is that those two injuries clobbered his tactical plan - which is 100% true. But he does need to find some better workarounds at this point.
     
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  11. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    multiple (DC United, Dortmund, Chelsea, Arsenal, Juve ....)
    United States
    Mar 17, 2007
    moving around the US every few years ....
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Chelsea will keep hold of 3rd place ....? .... we/you hope.

    that assumes with games in hand that Spurs and Arsenal both stumble.

    I would not be so sure.

    clear to me that:

    injuries have hurt them

    too many games have hurt them

    but they have a deep squad in terms of payroll and it is up to TT to not only bulk up the defense (anchored by aging Silv) .... but also to figure out scoring.

    there is no doubt that Lampard used Mount and Pulisic together to much greater effect (with Abraham and others) than Tuchel has.

    Tuchel is responsible for not getting production out of Lukaku, Werner, Ziyech and Havertz .... they were what he wanted.

    you just can’t pin this all on James and Chilwell being out.

    If you solely dependent on your wingers then the opposition knows how to counter you.

    The current situation is mainly Tuchel’s fault.
     
  12. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    when all the attacking players look timid and hesitant and conservative at the same time, it makes me wonder if that’s a coincidence.
     
  13. DCU1984

    DCU1984 Member+

    Jan 15, 2009
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think I posted this before but I do think Lukaku spoke out about the system probably knowing other attackers were frustrated as well and he is the most experienced attacking player with the most leverage on the team. Obviously it got conflated with his Inter comments and it really didn't look good.
     
  14. Method

    Method Member

    United States
    Aug 20, 2018
    Maybe the reason chilwell and James both got leg injuries was because of the ask tuchel has of them as wingbacks? In other words, a lot of those types of injures falls on his plate and his directive for how his wingbacks play.

    Lukaku was amazing like 10 months ago. All of sudden with Chelsea he completely lost it? Imo tuchel is coaching a terrible offense holding his offensive players back
     
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  15. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I won't quibble with this. Azpi is the club captain and Chelsea legend with over 300 appearances. It's just that he's lost a step, and playing on the wings, speed is required, and James is also physically stronger. TT has played Azpi as a central defender and also had James as right back in a 3 defender system with Azpi farther forward.
     
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  16. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No one thinks it is all on James and Chilwell being out, but Chelsea does play a bit more narrow now. Also, Werner, Ziyech, and Havertz all came under Lampard. They have all played both well and poorly under TT.
     
  17. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is an aside, but Klopp won 2 BL titles, 5 trophies overall, and went to a CL final with BVB. In what way is Tuchel more successful?

    TT will be under pressure if they don't get top 4, it's really that simple. Any manager would be under pressure at a place like Chelsea, with that amount of spending & talent at their disposal, if they don't meet the minimum requirements for the job. And that's the minimum. There's a reason they've had 15 managers in 16 years or whatever it is.

    I expect them to get top 4 and him to stick around, personally.
     
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  18. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And Azpi's former claim to the throne of best prem defender has nothing to do with him now having the ability to defend on the wing... he's still a very intelligent defender, like John Terry was, but get him isolated in space and it can be a problem. He's a great player to have at RBC in their 3 CB formation, but he's not a great player to deploy at wingback these days. It's only done out of necessity, just like when CP or CHO plays there.
     
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  19. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    Lukaku was pretty good this summer and whole past year, even. LIke 15 or 16 goals for Belgium, nearly a goal a game since fall 2021, but he can be a bit of dick too. I thought he'd mesh better with this Chelski side as there are decent number of guys who can thread a pass, but it hasn't clicked yet.
     
  20. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Finishing #3 in the league and making it to the QFs in the Champions should be enough for Tuchel to keep the job.

    But TT is going to sabotage himself and go all guns blazing against his bosses. I can almost smell it. So by April the "Tuchel to Arsenal" will be trending.
     
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  21. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    ^^^^ If TT goes it will be of his own volition, due to a circumstance of his own making, because he believes his own hype.
     
  22. golazo68

    golazo68 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 21, 2004
    Brazil
    All roads lead to Lukaku!

    In the way they do, because he epitomizes many of the current issues.

    What I don’t understand: Tuchel won CL and helped the team have an outstanding season under him. Surely, surely he had some major input into the Lukaku final but decision?

    So either 1 of 2 things happened, given what we know about Tuchel:

    (1) Tuchel thought: ok, Lukaku not exactly what I am looking for, but like the others- we will mold him to fit my system and he will learn to like it and learn to be effective OR

    (2) Tuchel didn’t want him, Lukaku was forced on him

    I am ruling out # 3 possibility- Lukaku was Tuchel’s choice and he planned to play him and system just like in Milan. Because there is not enough evidence of this.

    And we all see that (2) would be a bad scenario for Tuchel, and a bad scenario for the management- I guess it’s possible, but I doubt it.

    So that leaves us with (1) Tuchel was ok with Lukaku’s transfer and was convinced he could ‘change’ Lukaku just like he ‘thought’ he molded the other players last season.

    Except, Tuchel over-estimated how much you can permanently change players to fit his system. You can for a while. But a duck is still a duck is a duck.

    And Tuchel should have also known: a lot of their wins last season (and early this season as well)- Chelsea did not look like the superior team at all over 90 minutes. Far from it many games Some games, definitely. But for the most part, there were a lot of 40/60, 30/70 type wins that were a product of 1-2 key mistakes by opponent, good capitalization by Chelsea, an individual play/ here- there and luck. Mendy also had some brilliant games.

    So Lukaku is the manifestation of many Chelsea players who are not being played to their strengths, asked to do work too far outside their comfort zone, players were used to be a final play, superstar-type scoring solution (offense) who are now part of a jigsaw puzzle defense and offense.

    I guess winning can somewhat cure the minds of the creative, superstar mentality….. but when the boring system stayed exactly the same game in/outs: a lot of players dropped their level 10% each- and collectively that turns wins into ties and ties into losses.

    Because those players are bored and not happy and even (in their heart of hearts) don’t want the system they dislike to be re-inforced by wins.

    ‘Boys just wanna have fun’

    To maximize Lukaku, Lukaku needs to be played like a baby ‘Shaquille O’Neill’.

    Keep feeding him the ball when he has deep position. When he is set and has deep position, the defender on his back shoulder struggles. Maybe another defender comes over and strips him sometimes or maybe Lukakus touch will let him down sometimes- but you accept it because you know I’m the end the goals outweigh the turnovers.

    Just keep feeding him that ball in that spot and he will several times a day either turn his defender and create absolute havoc, or hit the runner when he is collapsed upon…and goals will result. (and some turnovers).

    That’s Lukaku- you aren’t gonna get very goals/excellent team goals without turnovers.

    But here’s the rub: Turnovers are not Tuchel’s game. He abhors them. So much so that he is emasculating all his forwards and turning them into a 13 year old school boy passing drill way too often. So this makes Chelsea boring to watch and boring to play for- and all the creative types Chelsea bought are now told to paint-by-numbers the whole match. And we can see they are tired of it.

    Beautiful, total football …the Tuchel way.

    So at this point, I can only reason I can think of for this mess is that Tuchel overestimated his ability to put square pegs in round holes in his system by focusing solely only on the fact that he won Champions League (but not outplaying other teams in games themselves), and that has re-unforced his beliefs ever since. That is why he is having a hard time changing….and now he is getting a major reality check when reversion to mean kicks in.

    But more than that, his players really seem down on his system.

    So Tuchel has a huge challenge now. Tweaking won’t work. He needs a materially different playing system.

    Again, Lukaku is a duck is a duck is a duck.
    You aren’t to change him, Herr Tuchel.

    A lot of risk for Tuchel. I think he’s scared to make this leap into the great unknown.

    Personally, I think he has no choice but to gamble on a significantly overhauled system, or he will continue to lose his team and struggle to win games at the level of a 3rd place side.

    Time will tell who is right.
     
  23. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ha! I was waiting for this question when I wrote it. Everyone knows Klopp came from Dortmund and was very successful. TT actually has a higher winning percentage. Of course, Klopp was there for 8 years and TT only for 2.
     
  24. y-lee-coyote

    y-lee-coyote Member+

    Dec 4, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I think TT is exactly who we thought he was when he arrived at Chelsea. The injury to Chilly and Reese would be devastating to many teams, but I doubt Roman wants to hear that with his 250 million dollars worth of attacking players all playing at sub-optimal levels.

    It is damning to TT in my view that with all that talent he can't put a team together that can at least try and out score you. FFS he is trying CHO and Puli at those spots instead of looking at the hand he now has and trying to put together the best eleven he can out of that.

    He probably needs to go to a 4 in the back until replacements for Reece and Chilly are found. He should have made that move weeks ago. I think Kante and Mateo could run the midfield with help committee from one of the wide or a forward player. I like Puli Havertz, Mount, Lukaku and I think there are goals in that. I wouldn't want to needlessly cede possession with hit and hope but use Lukaku as the outlet he is made to be, and let the others run off him and Kai can also offer another option.

    I think they need to attack with urgency for the most part and not just play possession above all else offense. Offense is supposed to be about scoring goals not just about not having to defend.
     
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  25. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    the D was a problem under Lampard. TT's system fixed that/papered that over to an extent - while also providing attack from Chil and James (and Mendy has been exceptional) but injuries hamstrung the system and TT hasn't figured out a workaround. Can he? I would think so. Will he? Remains to be seen.
     

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