Revs @ Houston, Season Opener 3/8/14

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by patfan1, Dec 20, 2013.

  1. Achowat

    Achowat Member+

    Mar 21, 2011
    Revere, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do you see your logical fallacy?

    Rhetorical question: of course you don't
     
  2. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It really isn't worth the argument.
     
  3. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good to have Mister Spock back in the fold. It was getting pretty boring here without him.
     
  4. JDEsq09

    JDEsq09 Member

    Apr 12, 2011
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Please explain then.
     
  5. metoo

    metoo Member+

    Jun 17, 2002
    Massachusetts
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    So what do people think of the fact that we're getting yet more snow this week? It's been quite a winter, and I'm ready for the snow on the ground to be gone so I can start to do spring things like hiking and riding my bike. But strangely, even though I haven't been a "child" since the early 80's, and if it snows it just means I have to work from home, I don't get days off, but I still love a good snow storm, the previous storms this season haven't bothered me. That might be helped by the fact that I have a very small driveway to shovel, so I really don't mind doing that in lieu of a workout at the gym. I would like it to be warmer though, and where I am, this storm is probably going to be more of a messy mix than a legit snow storm.
     
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  6. metoo

    metoo Member+

    Jun 17, 2002
    Massachusetts
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Yup, as the saying goes, everybody always talks about the weather, but nobody ever does anything about it. That saying/quote is generally attributed to Mark Twain, though I read recently that it seems to have been coined by another writer, can't remember his name, but he was buds with Marc Twain. Not surprising that over time people would only remember it as having been said by the very famous guy I would think.
     
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  7. Achowat

    Achowat Member+

    Mar 21, 2011
    Revere, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thought you wouldn't. I'll allow Monty to provide the response.

     
  8. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was hyperbole, Sheldon.
     
  9. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    Yes - rookie mistake.
     
  10. metoo

    metoo Member+

    Jun 17, 2002
    Massachusetts
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Sorry, but to call Mullins "culpable" on the goal seems a bit over the top to me. Watched the highlight again, Mullins was backing away from Caldwell, trying to get wide and keep a good amount of space between them, and he did reverse direction and go back to the ball after the pass was struck, but considering his momentum and the fact that Dynamo player was already running forward when the pass was struck, there's little chance of Mullins getting to that ball, or catching up to the player who intercepted it. Maybe because he's a rookie, you'd tell him he should still have pursued (or maybe just fouled, though that would be considered a dangerous area to me), but Alston had picked up the run, and Caldwell was tracking the other runner in that area who came from the middle, so there was decent coverage in the area. Considering where he is, Caldwell has to either hit a very firm pass away from the pressure coming from up field, or not make that pass at all, you'd say the same to a kid playing u14 soccer, never mind a professional.
     
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  11. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good analysis. That's out of character for Caldwell, his 2013 season was highlighted by crisp passing and seeming to always make good decisions with the ball the vast majority of the time. Just a bit of rust, which unfortunately was costly.
     
  12. metoo

    metoo Member+

    Jun 17, 2002
    Massachusetts
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    He could be struggling a bit for confidence, after getting replaced late in the season last year, and hearing the team (and fans) say over the off season that his is one of 2 positions that needed to be addressed, with the other position, forward, being one where the starter left the team/league for bigger and better things.
     
  13. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Caldwell shouldn't be upset with chatter from fans or whatever. You don't last long in this world if you let that affect you. If a professional sports team wasn't always trying to get better players than the ones they have, they wouldn't be doing their job.

    Or they would just be the Revs business as usual. I'm gonna go over on the Houston boards and start talking smack to them. Yeah, they might have beat us 4-0, but what about your budget? Suck on that, Houston!
     
  14. Minutemanii

    Minutemanii Member+

    Dec 29, 2005
    Abington MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We could argue this, but maybe we would both agree that Heaps starting Mullins in this game at this place was quite a rash decision.
     
  15. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    If you think a guy can have a positive impact on the team, you have to give him a shot - even if it means living with some "learning on the job". We did it with Farrell and Caldwell last year and they both improved rapidly.

    In MLS, I'm convinced that the difference between a lot of the draftees that make it and those that don't is the availability of playing time when they first enter the league. Probably the worst thing for Mullins at this point would be to sit on the bench for long periods of time. If we want him to be a player, we've got to play him IMO.
     
  16. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, Donnie Smith started the first game last year, and IIRC, that was his only start. I've got no beef with a "baptism by fire" situation where a rookie learns to sink or swim by being pushed into the deep end of the pool. You can't say that you won't start Mullins because he "doesn't have the experience," and yet, how does he get that experience.

    It was a bad game and we got blown out, but the real test is what happens next. Does Mullins start this week? If so, can he rebound with a better performance with no dropoff in confidence? This is a larger question for the team as a whole, not just one player.
     
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  17. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes - and sometimes giving time and sticking with these young guys too long backfires as they never develop into much. It doesn't mean they're bad people or didn't work their ass off, they just have a finite amount of talent and peaked when they reached it.

    See Schilawski, Dube, Nyassi, Brettschneider, Mansally, Phelan and our own current Left Back Chris "Cultured Left Foot" Tierney.
     
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  18. metoo

    metoo Member+

    Jun 17, 2002
    Massachusetts
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    This is one of those things that sounds nice to fans - professional athletes should not feel the normal human emotion of being bothered by hearing their job is in jeopardy (or bothered by any abuse fans could come up with) because they professional athletes, aka adults who get paid to play fun kids games - but it's not one I buy. Yes, getting paid to play a kids game sounds idyllic to fans, but to the players, it's a job, just like if you're a lawyer, IT person, in construction, etc, and any human who hears their job is in jeopardy is going to feel pressure, worry, and likely be affected mentally to some degree. And new employees in any job are going to worry more than those who've been on the job for a while. Also, when I say pro sports is a job like any other, I don't mean exactly alike, for in no other profession do you have to thousands of people watching and dissecting as you write up a brief, work on a computer, or swing a hammer, right after you get the job. Some can handle the pressure right from the get go, but others can take a while to get used to it, that's just how it is. Do they have to learn how to deal with it, absolutely, or they'll won't last, but as I'm sure he was a star player growing up, this could be the first time he's ever had to deal with his place in a team being in danger. Then, there's also the possibility that he just might not be good enough. We'll see.

    We could argue, though I'm not sure which point. Are you saying he "should have" gotten to the bad pass first, I obviously don't agree, but if you're referring to whether or not he should have pursued after the Houston player won it, sure, perhaps he should have, but we don't know what their instructions are, which I assume would be situational depending on score and such, as to whether or not outside mids should be doubling with outside defenders then, or staying higher to look for other runners, or be available to go on the attack, or something else.
    However I definitely can't agree at this point in time that it was a rash decision to start him, seeing as I wasn't there for all (any) of pre-season, and therefore don't know how he looked compared to other options there, and as I said, I don't even know for sure if he was even supposed to pursue once Alston picked the player up.
    It may later turn out to look like a bad decision, or it may not, as was alluded to, was it rash to start Farrel as a rookie, or any other rookies in any sport who went on to shine? It's up to the coach and staff to determine who can handle it, and who needs to be brought along more slowly.


    I don't really agree with that, in any sport, some players can play from the get go, and some need to be brought along slowly. Calvin Schiraldi was very promising, and did well in the regular season, but as many have said, he didn't seem ready to handle a World Series, and that might have affected how his career turned out. I've said many times that after a good rookie season, having Soares be the senior CB playing with a guy who'd never played CB before was a horrible decision. He wasn't ready, should have had someone else to continue to learn from, and perhaps that decision might affect how his career turns out. Perhaps it's rose tinted memories, but I remember liking him much more his rookie season than I like what I see now, and he was playing with a lesser partner than he has now, at least in terms of on-field playing ability.
     
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  19. VTSoccerFan

    VTSoccerFan Member+

    New England Revolution, Vermont Catamounts, NCFC
    United States
    Jun 28, 2002
    Cary, NC
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is an example of where the Revs owning their own USL Pro team would be beneficial. If a rookie gets very little playing time in 2014 is practice the only place to prove his value? Perhaps he gets some playing time in exhibitions or the USOC, but in those cases I doubt that their is much continuity in the lineup. This lack of continuity and lack of consistent playing time makes it more difficult for the rookie or fringe player to get in a groove and show what they can do. So without much chance to prove his value a rookie find himself in pre-season camp before his second year (if he is not let go after his rookie season) competing with new rookies. In that case a few weeks of pre-season practice could determine if he sticks or not.

    Consistent minutes on a Revs run USL Pro team would give the player more chances to get in a groove and show what he can offer and it would give the Revs a much better way to evaluate the player's long term prospects. Right now roster can handle only a handful of players who still need to develop. Each year just about the same number of players get drafted. It is a tough place for those young, bottom of the lineup guys. A USL Pro team would add some 25 (or so) more spots.

    As a side note I always thought this is what happened to Twellman with the USMNT. I always thought he might do better with a consistent run of minutes with the first team. His appearances seemed like patchwork lineups of guys trying to make an impression which is a very difficult situation to succeed in.
     
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  20. A Casual Fan

    A Casual Fan Member+

    Mar 22, 2000
    So - where did you end up watching Revs-Dynamo? Curious on your thoughts on any of the places, if you went.
     
  21. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

    Bayern München
    United States
    Mar 1, 2000
    Ellington, CT / NK, RI
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I got lucky, I stayed in CT and watched it at home. Had to do some last minute followup testing sat morning for a medical issue.
     
  22. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So after all that ...

    ;)
     
  23. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

    Bayern München
    United States
    Mar 1, 2000
    Ellington, CT / NK, RI
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ya, thank god for kidney stones right! lol
     
  24. Jon Martin

    Jon Martin Member+

    Apr 25, 2000
    SE Mass
    That's a quote I will probably never see again.
     
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