Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by George Griffin, Aug 24, 2002.

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  1. Jim Dow

    Jim Dow New Member

    Mar 20, 1999
    Belmont, MA
    Look, that fieldturf crap was faster than a bowling alley and damp in the bargain. Also very narrow. Chicago plays 14 matches on it, we play two. The ball moves around like a water beetle on speed and even the most skilful of players boot the thing away in panic if pressed. The Rev did EXACTLY what they had to do in order to have a chance. Nicol's formation, 1-9-1 or whatever it was made perfect sense given the situation. I didn't see last Sunday's match but I suspect it was much, much prittier football being on a full sized, real grass pitch that had only been defiled by the New England chapter of drug addicts/wife beater's, ooops, I mean NFL football for one evening. Of course the Naperville match was ugly, what could one expect, given the conditions.

    Nicol played during the glory days of the likes of Kenny Dalglish, Ian Rush, Jan Molby and Mark Lawrenson, stylish players all but hard, very hard at the same time. Sort of like Ralston or Twellman. While I lament the leaving of Andy Williams and would love to see APC involved I still maintain that the defensive balance sheet has to be addressed first and foremost. I certainly think that Nicol can identify and respect skill and that he will blend it in once the defense becomes dependable. Also remember many of the same folks who dis Nicol's formations, etc. are calling for "warrior mentality" out there. Well, last night we saw a good deal of that, all over the pitch and, at this point, we should be thankful for it. Bad record aside, this is a far less bedraggled, sad sack group than we have ever had at this point in a bad season (so 97 and 00 excepted) and I attribute that to Nicol's ability to person manage. Plus, perhaps, the personalities of this group of players.

    Finally, what do folks think of the atmosphere at Cardinal Stadium? I have been very, very impressed all season long. Granted, the Fire fans are a lot more demonstrative a lot than the general run of zombies that inhabit the Big Gouge (another new appelation for the new digs) but I suspect that if we had a 20,000 plus stadium that held the noise and allowed flags, drums and other footie stuff (did I not see a smoke bomb behind the goal in the second half? WOW!) we too would have some great atmosphere, particularly with a winning team. Now I am not suggesting leaving Foxboro but I STRONGLY suggest that management look at the way the Fire and DC run their stadium operations for hints at how to make an atmosphere-friendly confine in the lower bowl. As an aside, I don't think that the blue tarp over the south side has had a negative effect on the games other than putting a lot of people in serious discomfort during day matches. But that could be worked out.

    Go Revs,

  2. soren_k

    soren_k New Member

    Oct 28, 2001
    Agreed, I think a lot of credit has to go to Nicol for getting that kind of effort effort out of the 2nd worst team in MLS, especially at this stage of the season. Nicol did exactly what he needed to do to give his team a chance to win.

    And for those calling for APC to play more, if he couldn't control the ball in space on the large and grassy gillette pitch, he probably wouldn't fare to much better in Naperville.

    IMO Nicol wants an attacking midfielder who is competent defensively, not an unreasonable demand conisdering the Revs have let in more goals than any other team.
  3. genpabloescobar

    Feb 17, 2002
    Couple of things...

    1) Congrats to the Revs...they could've quit and didn't, and as a Fire fan, I have to give credit where it's due.

    2) The turf (technically SafePlay, not field turf) has not proven to be an advantage for the Fire this year. Yes, they've played more games on it, but the Fire is only 3-4-4 at home...not an overwhelming advantage considering the talent level the team has (when healthy) and the Fan support.

    3) As for the smoke bomb...that may have been one thrown on the field, but they're seriously verboten when playing on the rubber field...can cause a monstrous amount of damage...unlike grass, it doesn't grow back. Hopefully someday we'll have a SSS with grass where smoke bombs will be less harmful.

    Good luck in the playoff chase!

    -The General
  4. revfan11

    revfan11 Member

    Jul 10, 2001
    Side note to playoff chase

    Although the Metros are our primary team to catch, don't forget that we have two games up on the KC Wizards.

    CTREVS Member

    New England Revolution
    Apr 18, 2002
    Olympique de Marseille
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Some random thoughts.
    I've been very impressed with Kante so far.
    Maybe Harris should start with Twellman on Wed
    I think we need to hope for a DC win, more important to keep out gap at 4 points from the playoffs than worry about how many teams our ahead of us.
    The comment about how we played better on Sunday when we lost, it's a funny old game. Especially in this league it seems more so in than in any other, the team that has the most possesion and scoring chances doesn;t win.
  6. eric_appleby

    eric_appleby Member+

    Jun 11, 1999
    Down East
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good to see Wolde break the ice. Unlike Fuller, at least Harris has the potential to help us in the stretch run.

    Kante looks like he could be a very good player in this league.
  7. soccer_addict21

    soccer_addict21 New Member

    Jun 28, 2002
    congrats on the win revs. way to beat the goons
  8. pwykes

    pwykes Member

    Apr 18, 1999
    Auburn, MA
    As usual, these boards are manic-depressive. All it takes is one win and everything's fine again in Revolution land.

    While I was pleased to see the win, I didn't think either team played particularly well. Chicago squandered many opportunities. The result could have just easily been a Chicago win. I thought the starting line-up was very odd - Pierce in midfield with almost no offense? Fortunately Harris was able to put the ball in the back of the net for a change.
  9. George Griffin

    George Griffin New Member

    Feb 18, 1999
    Prince Edward Island
    I agree with you Paul, the Fire last night looked the better team but then this was the mirror image of last week. The Revs outplayed the Fire last week but were unable to get by Thornton. Both Rev goals last night were solid--not flukes like the Fires first goal last week. I also think SN's game plan was solid. That field called for the Revs to stuff up the middle and take their chances on counterattacks. It was a classic road win--not prettu but it got the job done.
  10. spider_kin

    spider_kin Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 8, 1999
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    i normally don't bother coming to these boards anymore because all i see is pessimism, pessimism and more pessimism with a few exceptions. after the win, which i am one to try and be optimistic about, i was really upset and almost depressed knowing that people would all of a sudden change their tunes.

    i hate to put it out like this, but yeah... sometimes one has to vent. if you lose hope, you've lost before you even start, but to see people change their tune so easily, after being asked, quite seriously, why i bother to continue to hope for the best, it makes me sick.

    i'm happy to see a win. even if it wasn't a "good" game. both teams were off, not getting some easy chances (brown did some good saves! yay! :)) and a few others had a few good moments, but over all it was a lackluster effort in my opinion. maybe i was spoilt by the WC games. oh well... let's keep hoping they make it! but really... do they deserve it? prolly not. will that stop me from hoping? he-yell nawww :D

    GO REVS!
  11. 103FAN

    103FAN New Member

    Aug 1, 2002
    The lone Revs Fans at Naperville

    Being incredibly sick Revs fans my family took a big detour on the way back from a wedding in California to go the game last night in Naperville. Quite the experience. We went in full Revs gear with the signs from our section (Taylor Tally, Wolde, Heaps and Joey) - kids gelled their hair blue and red...the whole bit! Big disappointment for us was that the tickets, althought front row, were on corner NOT facing the cameras and that they wouldn't let us hang our signs. Big bummer, but the Revs knew we were there anyway and were so nice to our kids. All our sign guys came over several times during the night and talked to the kids, not to mention the thumbs up, waves, applause from the others. Nice group of guys with only a few exceptions.

    What a huge difference from our games at the new digs! Sold out game...packed stadium...much like watching a game at Nickerson. Very enthusiastic crowd...probably seemed more so because the setting was more "intimate" than at home. And we were so close to the players. Our seats were level with the field and only about seven to ten feet from the back line. Turf was interesting...they had a hunk where the old was exposed next to the new and the difference in texture was remarkable. The new stuff is much less abrasive and provides more cushioning.

    Oh, and that goal that went in? Rusty was busy fixing his hairband and missed his mark. Get a haircut Rusty.

    Curtin is a regular can get more height than that guy.

    Gorgeous, gorgeous goal by Wolde. Give this man more playing time...he does a heck of a lot more on the field than Fuller.

    Looking forward to Wednesday's game at home...hope the win puts them in a positive mind set.
  12. kebzach

    kebzach Member

    Dec 30, 2000
    Greenfield, WI
    - Bocanegra's yellow was just that, a yellow. His was a foul to send a message and stop play. Not to try to injure, like the red in the 8/18 game.

    - No smoke bombs. A smoke machine.
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've got to disagree. Whether or not Bocanegra 'tried' to injure is irrelevant. He brought his second leg through the back of his opponent. It endangers the safety of the opponent and it's the textbook red card for a tackle from behind. It's the same type of foul that Kamler committed last week (which I agreed was a red, though Kamler didn't "intend" to injure anyone either...he was just trying to keep the ball in and was stupid in doing so) though it was not as foolish/wild.

    With that said, I don't think Corrie went yellow for any of the wrong reasons that fans sometimes suggest (not wanting to change the game, home crowd influence, etc.). I think that, from the angle Corrie was running at, he couldn't see the second "scissor" leg in the tackle. If Bocanegra only makes the takle with his left leg, it's a yellow. That's what I think Corrie saw. However, Bocanegra used both legs and the foul with the right was twice as bad as the tackle with his left. A red would have been appropriate, in my opinion.
  14. jmeissen0

    jmeissen0 New Member

    Mar 31, 2001
    page 1078

    one only has to remember to play the turf first then the opponent... well, at naperville

    i just hope soldier field is ready for the playoffs next year... that would be an amazing way to open the place up, screw the cubbies (although urlacher is damn fun to watch play)
    Fernando_Bayern_BR repped this.
  15. pwykes

    pwykes Member

    Apr 18, 1999
    Auburn, MA
    I disagree. I didn't like this line-up at all. Even with almost everyone playing defense, the Revs still gave up a goal and were lucky that Razov and Stoichkov couldn't finish.

    It was only after this formation changed with the sub of Wolde for Rusty that the Revs came to life. Fortunately, Wolde finally managed to put the ball in the back of the goal instead of over it otherwise the results could have been quite different.

    I was not impressed with Pierce as a D-mid. He doesn't have the distribution skills for that position. I would much prefer him to Heaps as a defender.
  16. NER_MCFC

    NER_MCFC Member

    May 23, 2001
    Cambridge, MA
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A win is a win, and otherwise, I think the field made it nearly impossible to assess the performances.

    I know that field is 110 yards long, but it played like it was about 90.

    Was the call on Twellman when Curtin decked him from behind as goofy as I thought it was?
  17. kebzach

    kebzach Member

    Dec 30, 2000
    Greenfield, WI
    It's a question of whether or not Curtin went straight up or not.

    If he did, and then Twellman undercut him and had the mis-fortune of having Curtin come down on top of him, then it was called 100% correct. Each player has the right to go straight up for a ball in the air.


    If Curtin jumped forward, towards the ball, and came over the top of Twellman, who would be going straight up in this example, then it should have been a call against Curtin.

    The ref callled it as if it happened in the first example, and seeing as how I was at the other end of the field then I can't say one way or the other what happened.

    But the key here is what all took place before Curtin fell. Was he going straight up and undercut or did he go over Twellman's back?
  18. NER_MCFC

    NER_MCFC Member

    May 23, 2001
    Cambridge, MA
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From the replay, it looked as though Curtin was running up field while Twellman was standing (or moving very slowly) preparing to trap the ball. Curtin came from directly behind Twellman, who couldn't have seen him coming at all, so it clearly wasn't a case of him not trying to play the ball.
  19. Jon Martin

    Jon Martin Member+

    Apr 25, 2000
    SE Mass
    A different POV

    Paul always has interesting things to say, and I hesitate to disagree with any of them. Still, one can always find reasons why Fire should win, because they are a much better team. The question is, if you're Nichol, and you are having your butt handed to you every week, what can you do to change your luck?

    Many on these boards have been calling for a system that conforms to the players we have, and not vice versa. The core young players we have: Franchino, Pierce, Heaps, Hernandez, Cullen, potentially Kante, and even Twellman are not artists, but scrappers. I think Ralston, Griffiths, and Llamosa are going with it, and both Harris and Fuller will do anything to get on the field. So why try to compete with Fire at passing and combination play?

    I sense that Nicol wants at this point to do anything to take the opposition out of their game, and steal a goal or two in the chaos. So if Rusty is sufficiently disruptive, no matter how ugly it looks, he will play wherever he can be fit in.

    Thanks to MassRef - as always, a voice of reason.
  20. kebzach

    kebzach Member

    Dec 30, 2000
    Greenfield, WI
    no, I think Curtin was trying to play the ball, but from what I can deduce from your post, Curtin had momentum going and went over Twellman's back.

    so it should have been on him then.
  21. soccertim

    soccertim Member

    Mar 29, 2001
    Bocanegra's play was at least as bad as Kamlers, and I'd say that it was more deliberate because he was more under control than Kamler was. It should easily have been a red. If the ref allows a player to slide into someone from behind and take out both of their legs without a red, they might as well not have refs. Also, Curtin should have gotten a card for his hit on Twellman. Even if you thought Twellman undercut Curtin, Jim jumped up and kneed Taylor in the back. This is no different than jumping for a header with your elbow straight out and clocking someone in the head.

    Another thing about the ref. Does he understand how injury time works? One minute in the first half? Twellman was down on the Curtin play for much longet than that.

    For all of the complaints about the football lines, the refs seem to blow fewer offside calls with the lines. I wonder if the linesmen just don't bother to keep up in a line with the players?
  22. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    Yeah, exactly. One minute injury time in the 1st half when there were about 4 minutes of real stoppages, and 3 minutes of injury time in the 2nd half when there were fewer stoppages? Whatever the motivation for the shortage in the first half (I'm guessing TV influence), the 2nd half added time was a gift to the home team.

    The Curtin/Twellman foul was called on TT because refs usually will call it on a player who doesn't go up for a high ball and instead tries to just occupy space (like drawing a charge in hoops). Of course the reason Twellman didn't go up for the ball was because Curtin's knee was in his back! Hopefully someone will make the ref (and his blind linesmen) watch the replay a few hundred times.

    And the Bocanegra foul was textbook red, no question about it. That could be the example red card play in refereeing school.

    That was a great example of the inconsistent refereeing across the league and the home field disadvantage the Revs get from referees. Kamler gets a red at home and Bocanegra gets yellow on his home turf. Kamler was a reckless slide from behind with an attempt to get the ball, Boca's was a reckless slide from behind with a nasty scissor!

    The Revs were able to win because the withstood the incredible midfield pressure that Chicago applied. After 65 minutes or so, I thought the Fire started to tire from the effort and could no longer pressure the Revs all over - then they were able to get some chances.

    Chicago's strategy was clear - pressure the Revs in their own end, and foul them when they did manage to break out. And that's what everyone will try and do until they learn how to beat it.
  23. Popero

    Popero Member

    Jul 5, 2002
    The kind of fouls that plague MLS and need to be addressed are the Kamler/Bocanegro fouls.

    That was a red.
  24. kebzach

    kebzach Member

    Dec 30, 2000
    Greenfield, WI
    oh, so Kamler gets a break because he can't even control his own body or what he does with it?

    because that's what you are implying in this sentence.
  25. Gregor

    Gregor New Member

    Jun 23, 1999
    Boston, MA USA
    or he's implying that Bocanegra had more intent to injure than Kamler. c'mon dude, it was scissor from behind after he'd been beaten on the dribble. that's how you blow out someone's knee.

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