Revolution Stadium Groundbreaking "12-24 months" Part XIV

I could have sworn I'd read this thread already....

 

I vote that stadium posts don't deserve a thread. Put them in TTDRTOT.

 

Yes, this thread is for lack of stadium posts only.

 

Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.

 

This is the last one. I can feel it.

 

Hard rocky vs soft grassy posts in last thread were the equivalent of meat by-products used as filler in low quality hotdogs.

At a minimum, neither really belongs.

 

Sigh. Here we go again.

 

Continuing a thought I had in the last stadium thread, and I should point out that I don't have any inside info, I'm just trying to read the tea leaves...

What if the Revs decide that building close to Boston is too difficult, and instead try to fix everything soccer/Revs fans hate about Gillette. For the sake of argument, let's say the Krafts send out a press release tomorrow announcing a major renovation of Gillette Stadium that includes the following:

• A roof similar to the one the one the Miami Dolphins are putting on SunLife Stadium, or the the Jacksonville Jaguars are considering.
• Installation of a high-quality grass field.
• Some sort of mass public transportation arrangement.
• Dedicated Revolution Pro Shop rather than simply a corner of the Patriots Pro Shop.
• A pledge to build a best in class Training facility.

In order to get the finances to work, they'd probably have to figure out a way to either add seats or luxury suites, but I don't think that would be too difficult.

At this point, I think something like this is probably more realistic than a new Boston stadium. So, would you be excited? Disappointed? Both?

 

It's an improvement but it's not the solution. All the things you mentioned above are good. There are still issues (not small ones either), including:

• Location: Foxboro is arguably the biggest thing hurting the team (at least in terms of the stadium situation). Seattle plays in an oversized NFL stadium with turf as well, with one major difference: their stadium is downtown! Even with a commuter rail option, it is still not convenient for the mostly untapped urban core demographic that the Revs really need to have their popularity rise in this market. Moving into Boston will help grow the fanbase faster and get the team more media coverage and in the public eye more. Also: City stadium -> more fans / higher ticket demand -> more media coverage -> more scrutiny of the team -> more pressure on the Krafts to put a quality product on the field.
• Stadium size: Gillette will still be too big given its location in Foxboro. Unless you are planning on using the new roof to block off the upper deck and make it look less cavernous using curtains like BC Place does for Whitecaps games. I'm not sure how much that would really do to improve atmosphere and appearance though. For example, would sound be trapped in by the roof over the stadium or would it still get lost into the abyss of the stadium? Also, would the Patriots want a roof? They seem to like to use the snowy weather to their advantage.
• Turf: As long as the Pats are around, they are not installing grass. The turf is better for the Pats and the NFL. Belichick specifically requested Kraft to install turf MID-SEASON in 2006 because the grass at Gillette was so torn up, and he thought it was a main reason why they lost a game to the hated Jets that year. Unless the Krafts suddenly decide to choose the Revs needs over the Pats, which I'm not sure they have ever done, that won't happen.

As Garber basically said last week, the Revs could easily build a SSS in Foxboro tomorrow if they really wanted to. But what's the point of doing that? Having a grass field with no football lines and an appropriately sized stadium in Foxboro isn't necessarily going to move the needle and get more people to start following the Revs. Because people still have to go to Foxboro to try them out. And that's really the biggest reason for this team to build a new urban stadium, not necessarily to just appease diehards and current STH (that is more of a residual benefit), but to grow the fanbase and make this team a legitimate force in the market on par with the other professional teams.

 

You-ve been reading it for 12 to 24 months.

 

I don't think this is specifically related but knowing that the Krafts are going to need some financing if this ever does happen, the news today could play a part in that.

http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads...k-providence-equitys-25-stake-in-sum.2031063/

 

As was said, I don't think this would do much of anything at all.

- Roof - I like a roof on a stadium as much as the next guy, but I don't think this would do anything in terms of making it more appealing for soccer. Sure people could say 'now it's more like soccer stadiums in Europe', but I can't see it having any effect whatsoever in drawing more fans out, nor do I think it would help much in making the stadium atmosphere better if the team continues to draw under 20k. Other than a few literal fair weather fans when it rains, nobody is staying away because there the stadium doesn't have a roof, it wouldn't have much of an effect on general attendance.
- Grass - They already tried that, it didn't work. When Kraft bought the Pats, when they were still in the old stadium, he put grass in and said that football should be played on grass, and he said the same when he built the stadium. But for whatever reason, it didn't work. And if they had problems with keeping the grass alive without a roof, would it be any better with a roof. (do any stadiums with canopies use grow lights or something?)
- public transit - That would be nice, but public transit in the area just isn't that convenient. It's a problem with the country in general, we ripped up the huge rail infrastructure we had when trains were the only option for going long distances, and now systems are only designed for going to or through major urban areas, and not good for moving from point to point outside cities. So the only public transportation option would be one coming from Boston, and while there is a higher concentration of population in the city, an improved public transportation option would still require much of the fan to have to drive through traffic to use it.
- Dedicated pro shop - would be nice, but as with the roof, it would hardly be a selling point that would draw people in. Plus, just speculation, but if they sold more Revs stuff, there would probably be a greater amount of stuff to buy in the existing shop.
- training facility pledge - putting aside the fact that this never ending thread is around a pledge to build a stadium in a certain time frame, even if it happened, again, it wouldn't do anything towards bringing in more fans to games.

I appreciate that you may be trying to come up with ways the owners could show they're more dedicated to the team or whatever, and all of the things would be nice, but for me, all of the ideas amount to putting a dress on a pig, and wouldn't give much bang for the bucks spent. If they were looking to invest money to make the team more appealing in the current stadium, they'd get a lot more, for less money, if they invested directly in players for the team. How many players, including DP's, could the team get for the cost of constructing and maintaining just a training facility, or a roof, or even just a portion of the cost of a roof, if you said half to 2/3rds of the cost was to benefit the Pats? If the team were to show that it was going to seriously invest in players and staff for the long term, that would bring in, or bring back, a lot of fans who are disillusioned with how the team is run.

 

Like NE, Atlanta is going to be playing in a Football Stadium on turf. But they seem to be throwing their funds at least into an incredible training facility. $60m cost that is privately financed.

Here is a news report that came out on it yesterday. 21 years and we have never seen a story any where close to this and Atlanta has not yet kicked a ball yet.

http://www.11alive.com/sports/first-look-at-atlanta-united-practice-facility_/140688262

 

I admit I still have a fear (irrational as it may be), that there will come a time that Kraft looks at the spread sheet, looks at the value of the club and decides to go to the board to sell his team to another city.

One of the issues we have with no one coming to buy the team locally is that I think many people figure if the Krafts can't get a stadium done, no one is going to be able to.

With the lack of any real roots like other teams have with world class training facilities and soccer stadiums, I think it might make the decision much easier to walk away from MLS up $70-$100m after the sale and I fear when that day comes, the team will move to a growing number of cities that want MLS and will pay good money to get into the league as the spots for teams start to dwindle as the league closes in on 32 teams.

 

AUFC's training facility is NOT privately financed. The local governments are paying for the whole thing and getting a pittance of rent in return. This is NOT good for taxpayers anywhere, but sadly it is very normal here in Atlanta.

 

The media is reporting something different from what you are saying. This has been reported in numerous different articles. Is the media completely misinformed here?

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/apr/18/atlanta-united-to-build-60-million-training/
Atlanta United FC will build a $60 million, privately funded training complex about 15 miles north of downtown in Marietta.

 

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, fool me for ~12 years...

 

@frankieg73 This article states that the government is only paying for the additional fields that the community will use

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2015/...-training-facility-club-headquarters-marietta
The project represents more than $50 million in new investment in the area by Atlanta United and is projected to deliver approximately 80 high-paying jobs by 2017, when the club makes its MLS debut.

Atlanta United will also partner with the City of Marietta to develop a joint use community park along Rottenwood Creek and trails, bringing multi-use fields to youth in the community within walking distance of the training complex. The additional fields, which will be paid for, owned, maintained and managed by Marietta Parks and Recreation, will give the city and club the ability to host tournaments and community events.

 

I think the fear of relocation was much more real in the past than it is now (with the acceleration of appreciating values of franchises in MLS). The part of your quote that I bolded is, I think, the most critical to this discussion.

 

You are probably right.

I just fear with the rising evaluations of the all MLS teams and the fact that this is just another business unit for the Krafts that eventually the money will be too good and they will sell and since the likelihood of a local owner buying is low, that is when I fear the team could end up moving.

 

The size of the local media market makes the city attractive even if Kraft feels the need to get out of the soccer business. It's not like anyone accuses Kraft of squeezing all he can out of the market's potential.

 

agreed, I'd say that it's likely the rest of MLS thinks that the Krafts are leaving a lot of potential untapped in this market.

I'm also curious the origin of this idea that there are no potential local buyers, or potential buyers who would want to keep the team here. Have the Krafts ever attempted to sell the team, or floated the idea that it could be purchased for the right price?

 

Well, I can't see anything like this happening to the Revs if Big Daddy Kraft is still around. at some point when he passes, Jon will take over, if he hasn't already. The theory that the younger generation being more into soccer, and Jon's kids, who literally grew up with the Revs, growing into adulthood and maybe taking on a role with the team give me a hint of optimism.

I find the theory of the Krafts couldn't get a stadium deal done (so how can anyone else) to be a non-starter. it isn't that they couldn't, it's just that they didn't. You can argue all day on whether they should have, but no one could possibly argue that they left no stone unturned and, because of circumstances beyond their control, it didn't happen.

The Krafts are not "visionaries" who see the kinds of opportunities others don't. The are cautious, conservative businessmen who hedge their bets and never take a risk unless it is obvious. Nothing wrong with that approach, and it has made them very rich, beyond their wildest dreams. But, if they had decided to take a bit of a chance and bought some land when it was cheaper and there were lots of construction workers not working 7-8 years ago, they would likely have a nice stadium somewhere in the inner core by now. Sure, it wouldn't have been easy to work with Meninio, but if you play too much of a hard line and view essential relationships in an adversarial way, you'll never get anything done, ever.