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Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by ProseLtd, Sep 5, 2002.
Revolution trim staff by Gus Martins, Boston Herald
"Smith was unavailable for comment yesterday, but his future with the team now could include more soccer-specific duties in the line of player personnel, and less with the business and marketing sides."
How does firing 7 people from your business staff decrease the amount of work the GM has do to on the business side?
Sure the Pats staff will merge with the Revs...but this merger has been in existence since the beginning of the Revolution program. Does someone think giving the Pats more on their plate will help a struggling soccer team? I'm sure the Pats marketing department is thrilled they have to further support the red-headed stepchild.
When it comes down to it, which team gets priority? the Revs in the playoff chase and MLS Cup OR the Super Bowl Champion, bright and shiny ring-wearing Patriots....we'll soon find out.
Only time will tell if this is a load of crap, but from a business perspective, it makes sense.
I wouldn't be surprised if, for the sales staff, it also reflects slack on the Pats' side. Most of the boxes and club seats are sold, and their waiting list for season tickets is miles long. All they have to sell is any tickets that aren't part of packages.
And what qualifies Todd Smith to make player personnel decisions, again?
By his own admission, isn't he the genius that pulled the trigger on the Diallo, Williams, and Chronopoulos for Serna, Hernandez, Kamler disaster? And didn't he say he'd make the same deal again?
"6 days a week and twice on Sunday" I think was the exact phrase.
i don't know about this. i don't have confidence that these new people will know much about the local soccer community and organizations...the already lost, the current and the potential new fan base...and how they and the revs fit into the bigger pic of soccer in the american sports landscape. to me, these are important things to be aware of when you're part of a "start-up company" trying to deal with your existing fanbase while creating a new one. and i don't think they'll make much of an attempt to delve into the soccer in america complexities. in the long run it doesn't sound like "good business" for the revs.
contrary to popular belief, not everyone agrees that we got the shaft on that. ask metro fans qwhat they thing of the 'prizes' we sent over there.
Well, they love Andy Williams, and Diallo was in the fans' good graces for a while before the welcome mat wore thin. It doesn't help that he was openly bickering with Golden Boy Mathis in their last game in LA. Chrono, in most Metro supporters' opinions is worthless. Not the Teddy we know and love, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's released at the end of this year.
So if a "productive player" gets 1 point, Williams gets a 1.0, Diallo a .5 and Chrono a 0, then they got 1.5 total. For us, Serna gets a 0, Hernandez has been better lately, but still gets a .75 and it would be streching it to give Kamler more than .25. So they still beat us by half a player.
Williams alone makes up for everything we got. Now if somehow Serna gets healthy and either goes overseas and we get an allocation that turns out to be semi-useful, or he plays for us and regains 75% of his Miami form, then it could be a different story.
Anyway, the Krafts are idiots, Smith is an idiot, Gulati is a liar and an idiot, and the Revs are destined for total failure with these people running the show.
Craig, you're a good guy and I understand how tough it will be for you especially now, but please spare us the guilt trip when some of us decide to come to games on a week-by-week basis. You seem smarter than your bosses, so surely you must be able to see what's coming.
Don't look now, but that kind of assessment is looking harder and harder to support as the Metros team implodes like a .... well like a large, noisome-smelling, imploding thing.
Right now, the Metros are doing worse than they were before the trade, while the Revs are doing much better. Sure things have turned dramatically recently (for the Metros- for the worse, for the Revs - for the better), but maybe that's the lesson to be learned from this whole situation: it's tough to assess the success/failure of a trade until you've waited awhile.
(BTW, I wonder if the Metros are ruing the fact that didn't have Diallo's ankle x-rayed before the trade )
But if you ask me, the offseason/early-season decisions may provide a more fertile ground for question than the much ballyhooed blockbuster trade. I'd love to know the thought processes behind the Chacon/Semedo acquisitions and whether these were precipitated by prior managment.
I never had a particular problem with the trade, and I've got to say the recent Griffiths/Kante acquisitions have been terrific.
not that everything can be explained by numbers….but, here's the pure numbers since the trade….
metrostars: 15 games (22 pts)
before trade: 10 pts / 9 games (1.11 p/g)
after trade: 22 pts / 15 games (1.47 p/g)
diallo: 13g [12 gs], 11g, 3a, 25 pts
teddy: 14g [13gs], 0g, 4a, 4 pts
andy: 15g [14gs], 2g, 11a, 15 pts
[combined: 42g [39 gs], 13g, 18a, 44 pts]
revolution: 18 games (22 pts)
before trade: 7 pts / 7 games (1.00 p/g)
after trade: 22 pts / 18 games (1.22 p/g)
serna: 5g [2 gs], 1g, 1a, 3 pts
kamler: 13g [11 gs], 2g, 3a, 7 pts
hernandez: 16g [13gs], 3g, 1a, 7 pts ()
[combined: 34g [26 gs], 6g, 5a, 17 pts]
I agree with everything (well, for a while, almost everything) that ToM said.
Ah, stat, stats, stats...
The latter of course ignore the fact there was a little thing like a management change going on, and that one of the players the Revs traded for only played 5 games.
However, for those who say that you're only as good as your last game, consider these little nuggets:
Last 6 games:
Metros: 6 points (1 per game)
Revs: 13 points (2 & change per game)
Also consider, over the last six games the Metros have given up 13 goals (2 & change per game) while the Revs have given up 5 (less than 1). Meaningless? Like most stats, to a great degree yes. But that's really the point isn't it?
Big fan of Williams as a player. But this is the same guy who had only played 5 games and figured in 2 assists before he was traded right? AW looked great in the end of of 2001 season and I'd really like it if he were still here. But would the team have a better record right now if he was still here? Very unlikely.
of course stats are all about how you interpret them.
however, it would be hard to argue that the metrostars "have gotten worse since the trade" since they've actually upped their pts/game since then, no?
and, ignoring that serna only played 5 games?....how is it ignored? its right there...he's only played 5 games. in hindsight, doesn't that say that the trade didn't really work out for the revs since he's only played 5 games? the fact is, that the 3 we gave up have been pretty good contributors for the metros and the 3 we got, really haven't matched up.
the numbers aren't out there for any other reason than for people to use them however they want. they are just the raw facts.
It says the trade didn't work out, not that it was a bad trade. If the Red Sox trade Trot Nixon for Barry Bonds, and Bonds gets hurt the next day - does that mean that it was a bad trade?
As far as points per game are concerned - we simply won't have all the information until the season's over. If things continue to go as they have lately, the Metros and Revs could be very close in that department when all is said and done (although the Metros probably will go to the playoffs while the Revs probably will not).
i used the phrase "didn't work out" and not one other post in this thread uses the words "bad trade" (a couple others may have implied it...but hey, maybe they were just really ticked that this trade "didn't work out")
that being said, t.s. is 100% responsible for trades that "don't work out" too....well, at least 99% anyway.
It rid us of Diallo. Our new coach doesn't really know how to use an attacking midfielder anyway.
And it rid us of Diallo.
It rid us of the guy who's leading MLS in points per game, allowing Ian Fuller to show what he can do. It also rid us of the second leading primary assist midfielder too.
Is that a good thing?
Wonder how many goals Twellman might have by now, if the opposing defenses had to worry about a monster forward rather than Fuller... and/or if he'd had Williams setting him up, in addition to Ralston.
We'll never know.
Hey, what have you got against red hair !!!!????
id like you all to know that its very simple. get new management. Obviously, the Kraft family doesnt give 2 shts about the Revs, and they would die for the Patriots.
Dont get me wrong, im glad that the Pats won, but its time to get another decent team out of new england. the management is killing us.
How is a merger between pats staff going to help the revs?? they probably dont care either.
it makes me mad how football is always dominant over soccer.
one last message - fah que kraft
Well, the Pats have a well-established, well-funded (I'm assuming) marketing organization with plenty of experience and business and community contacts, so potentially there is a great deal to offer. The Pats and Revs seasons are, despite some overlap, on pretty much different business cycles. So, the potential is there to bring the whole Pats business organization to bear in the late fall and winter when the Pats business end is pretty much settled.
There is a lot more potential revenue from the Revs, whereas the Pats are pretty much set, income-wise.
I think this is POTENTIALLY a very good thing for the Revs... OTOH, it could be just another way to ignore them.
But, regardless of whether I care about soccer or not, if I'm Kraft, I'm thinking there's a lot more $$ that can be earned by the Revs. And I don't think it takes an MBA to realize that the biggest key to tapping into that is to find a way to start winning on a regular basis.
I think anyone who thinks the Krafts care that much about the Revs versus the Pats are hallucinating. Clearly, and -actually as it should be business wise -based on local interest, fan base and attendences, the Pats are way ahead.
I think the contraction in staff is only bad for the Revs -put it this way, if there is a need to attend to some Pats business or Revs business, I think you can safely say the Pats will get the attention.
Sadly, I think the conclusion is that the Krafts are losing even more interest than they had initially in MLS, possibly with a view to exiting the Revs MLS franchise. On one hand I'm grateful that the Krafts have brought soccer to New England, but on the other I think it would be much more preferable to give the team to an owner who is truly interested -the question is who? Who has the money and interest to see this through? I wonder if the Krafts got into the MLS thinking they could make some money and just leave the team basically to itself (though a cynic like myself might think it was just a good business exercise for Jonathon Kraft prior to his Daddy passing on the Pats to him).
Bottom line: I truly believe the Revs can make money in this market but it's going to take a comitted and interested owner -and I'm far from convinced the Krafts are this.
I agree. The potential is there. I sincerely hope this is purely a business cost-cutting move that the Krafts hope will further the Revs organization by getting the most out of its sales and marketing employees. It shouldn't damage (for lack of a better word) the Patriots organization in any way. I think/hope it's the Krafts trying to get the most out of their employees at a time when they just spent lots of money on a new stadium while they apparently continue to lose money with the Revs.
That's probably part of the thinking. I hope.
There is definitely revenue potential for the Revs. (and for that matter MLS and US Soccer etc.)
Somehow the powers that be in the league(Commissioner Garber - a former NFL Europe marketing employee as I recall, Lamar Hunt, Phil Anschutz (sp?), the Krafts) need to work with MLS and US Soccer marketing and business employees and take things to a new level. It's a challenge and an uphill battle as we've all seen in the last 7 years, but I believe it can be done. And I sure hope these personnel moves aren't a negative sign or step back, but an attempt to step forward.