I was originally going to put this in the post match thread but it ended up having precious little to do with the match itself. So here it is by itself … Undoubtedly being one of these “some people” I should point out that it wasn’t a matter of “giving up” after 7 games. It was a matter of calling a spade a spade and of admitting that we were bleeding points that we really couldn’t afford to bleed. The standard reply to those who “gave up” was that the season is very long but – you know what – for DC United the season very nearly wasn’t long enough. I trust we are all honest enough to admit that. Today we should all be sending roses to the Dallas Burn. It was they more than us that gave us our much needed point. Kansas City folded up shop after the half. They knew that Colorado was getting beaten badly and all they needed was a draw. Of course DC United did better in the second half. Kansas City didn’t care anymore. Enjoy the playoffs. Certainly. But let’s be honest about how we got here. You’re right though. I am not satisfied. But I for one have happily pointed out what I think is amazingly improved this year: the defense. I give credit where it’s deserved. But, Cweed, let me reply to some of your other concerns with this rather crude analogy. (Indeed, now that I wrote it I feel I really have to chime in beforehand and apologize for just how awful and crude the analogy really is. It's just terrible but, it does make my point quite nicely. Also, I don't condone the practice or the attitude about women desribed here. I think it's just wrong and it really is pathetic and insulting. However, adopting it as a persona and spinning it out as an analogy does make my point. I hope nobody's too offended. And please don't ascribe this attitude to me. I hope that's a sufficient disclaimer ... ) Have you ever heard of the practice called “Hogging”? Some guys when they’re going through a dry spell lower their standards and instead of going after the really hot chicks they chase the – well - unbecoming chicks; particularly the fat chicks – hence the term, hogging. Now, don’t get me wrong, depending on your priorities this makes perfect sense. If you happen to think that hogging action is better than no action at all then, well, why not? But the thing about hogging is that you’re supposed to know that you’re lowering your standards. And if your buddies accuse you of hogging then you really ought to admit it. And – hell - you can always point out that the lot of them, unlike yourself, probably didn’t get any action at all last weekend. But don’t deny that you’re hogging. Maintain your standards. Just admit that you’re suspending them for the time being. So what’s my point? DC United getting into the playoffs – sure I’ll enjoy it but when my buddies ask I’m gonna admit that I’m hogging. DC United is no thing of beauty today but, as you know, she’s ready and willing and things have been damned dry these last few years. But mark my words: I will maintain my standards. My concern is the number of posters who, to me, seem to have lowered their standards to such a degree that they’ve lost all capacity for judgment. They’ve abandoned their standards so much that even though their buddies know they’re hogging they deny it. And truth be told, they don’t even believe they’re hogging. To them she’s the hottest thing out there. She’s drop-dead gorgeous, the quintessential perfect 10. That’s undignified. That’s pathetic. That’s not honest, respectable hogging. Such posters aren’t suspending their standards for a little while. They’ve gotten so desperate that they’ve lost their standards altogether. The ugliest woman alive shows the least bit interest in them and they’re happy as could be because they’ve so utterly forgotten what it’s like to be with a truly beautiful woman. They’re so desperate, they’re so relieved to get any action at all that they don’t even know the difference anymore. DC United backs into the playoffs in a totally unconvincing manner and they’re happy as could be because they’ve so utterly forgotten what it’s like to support a truly great soccer team. They’re so desperate, they’re so relieved to get any playoff action at all that they don’t even know the difference anymore. Maybe I’m just misinterpreting things. It’s possible. I read this stuff, it seems to me this way but – who knows – maybe I’m getting the wrong impression. But I can’t deny how I see it sometimes. Sometimes what I read on this board, it just reeks of self deception. It’s as if people got so desperate these last few years that they’re willing to accept anything at all and celebrate it as if it were truly a “return to glory," a "tradition restored" … That’s hogging – and not of the respectable variety. I’ll simply note this: The DC United that I fell in love with back in 1996, the one that I continued to support even when I left Washington DC, even when I left Philadelphia and moved back to my native California – that DC United never once entered the playoffs without making it to the championship match. Never once. It was a great team. It was the hottest thing out there. It was a beautiful. That, my friends, was the tradition. That is what I demand. It’s not enough for me that DC United is going to be “a genuine pain in the arse to anyone” they face. I demand that they beat whoever they face. That, again, was the tradition. Those are my standards and I am proud to uphold them. I don’t believe that tradition will be restored this year and I am saddened by that. I cannot help but be saddened by that because I remember how good DC United was. I’ve tried to figure out what I’m gonna think if DC United – by some miracle – wins the Cup this year. It’s possible. Soccer is a funny game. I’m sure I’ll be damned pleased and damned drunk if it happens. But once I sober up the first thing I’m gonna do is admit that this team should have done better this season. We’ve got two games now. Maybe this ugly duckling will turn into a swan. I’m not counting on it though. But don’t get me wrong, even the ugliest of ducklings can have its charms. Just don’t mistake it for a swan.
I'll go with the "little engine that could" analogy, myself. This team has gone through so much all season and in the past month and yet still managed to make the playoffs. At times we were missing a fourth of our roster and yet managed to put wins together and go on a nice streak that put us in a comfortable spot. All this while many were calling DC one of the worst teams in MLS, a team that had no cohesiveness and no heart. We were switching lineups every week, starting random players, and trying to deal with bruised egos. And yet somehow we "backed" into the playoffs. We kept going, kept persevering, and kept playing againt the odds. This team may not be the prettiest or play the most attractive soccer, but we can sure as hell fight. And that's all we have to do in the playoffs. We know that we may not win every game. Hell, we might get blown out. But we are going to make life tough for whatever team we face. We don't roll over and die because some team thinks they're better. The playoffs are an entirely new breed and one that DC can look to as a chance to make a statement: We belong here.
That's an interesting alternative analogy. But I don't buy it. As I recall, the story of the little engine that could went something like this ... So why won't I apply that analogy to DC United's season? First of all, unlike the hill before the little engine, the hill before us collapsed. Columbus imploded. Don't underestimate how much that helped us. Second, we got help. We got lots of help. Indeed, just last Saturday we got help. It wasn't from a big engine though. It was from another little engine named Dallas. Kansas City was a different team in the second half, a really wretched team in fact. Why? I have no doubt that the were made aware of the drubbing Colorado was getting from Dallas. Indeed, Preki admits as much. And, I guess even more than that, I just don't share the Hudsonian belief that this was a team with lots of heart. I watched too many timid, we'll settle for a draw, please don't hurt us too badly games for me to believe that. Some players, particular players, individual players - some of them had heart. The team as a whole? No. Too often this team looked like the Little Engine That Couldn't. You know the one that says in overtime "I don't think I can, I don't think I can ..."
Knave, I feel you are being a bit harsh. I know this is a tired arguement, but.... DC UNITED ARE UNDEFEATED IN REGULATION IN THEIR LAST 9 GAMES. Any other league in the world that would be admirable, even if it was 7 draws and 2 wins. The point is while this team may not be pretty, they can play closely with anyone. Perhaps not beat anyone, but play closely. And I think despite whatever excuse KC has for giving up a goal they are just hiding behind it because no one likes to lose a lead, I don't care who you are. And they still played with largely a full team. I am not saying we play beautiful football. Hardly. I do beleive with the players we have now it's possible. Think of this. Rimando Reyes Petke Nelson Prideaux Namoff Kovalenko Olsen Stewart Convey Cerritos I mean, I am sorry, I don't know how you can not be excited about that when we're healthy. And in my opinion we can stand to lose 2 people at midfield and defense, and one at forward through off season transactions, and we'll still be good enough to get by. (Defenders Ivanov and Stokes) (Midfielders Quintanilla and Quaranta) (Forward Martins, Eskandarian if u really want to go there.) Anyone who wasn't thoroughly impressed by our match AT new york must be shot. That line up, most of it, is the future of the team. If we go that route the future is very bright, and i still have hope for the present. 4 games is a very short period of time. Might I add, there are no 10 minute overtimes in aggregate series'. A win at home and a draw at chicago would do it. Not saying it is easy, not saying it will be the prettiest, but give us a break. As for saying how great the club were in the beginning, we just got very lucky with our draft and there would be no way under current MLS rules to assemble a team like that again. It just won't happen, at least not in single entity, so get over it.
Knave, I'm with you as far as our team's form as of late. It doesn't inspire much confidence going up against the winners of the Supporter's Shield. Since Olsen went down vs. the Metros at home, I think we've pretty much stunk it up. I was sure we were going to crash out of the playoffs until KC gave up in OT. But that being said, I had booked a plane ticket to come back to DC this weekend a couple weeks ago. Why, despite the fact that I had little confidence in our team's form? Mostly because I couldn't see myself missing our first playoff game in four years. Are we the definite underdog? Yes. Does this team remotely resemble our '96-'99 teams? No way. But as far as tradition goes, we still have a shot to build on it. This Saturday, at RFK, under the lights, on a crisp fall night, likely in front of a large crowd, our team will take on the best team in MLS with a chance to take them down. The Barra and SE's will be bouncing, La Norte will be covered in TP , and I'll be right there with my family and friends. I can't think of many places I'd rather be. I think what I'm looking forward to, what I'm so excited about is that do have a chance to build on that tradition, find new glory. Is it irrational in light of our recent form? Probably. But I still think this deserves enthusiasm. Also, remember that many of our fans, many that I know personally, on the boards and off, started following the team in the previous three years. They've never tasted how sweet playoffs at RFK are. This is especially their time. Return to Glory? Not yet. Tradition Restored? Hardly. But we certainly have a shot at it.
"backs into the playoffs"?? You mean like the US "backed" into the second round of the World Cup? Or do you mean like the '96 United team ekking out two wins over two teams not going to the playoffs in their last two games after losing to two playoff teams in the two previous games? Or conversely, do you mean DC should be as dominant as say a Fusion team that won a supporters shield, but failed to advance past the first round. Or maybe theey should be as dominant as a couple of Galaxy teams that trounced the regular season in their conferences only to lose to aa lowly Colorado team, or lose in the final. Whatever, the point is that this team has earned every bit of every point this season. To say it was merely by the grace of Dallas is similar to saying it was by the grace of Korea, that the US advanced. I think Arena's quote about that pretty much puts paid to any such foolish posturing. Now as for hogging, let's just see who else is hogging this season. Could it be SJ who spent most of the summer barely able to score at all, so their defense had to bail them out continually? Could it be KC who recently went 10 games without a win? Could it be Colorado who were the joke of the league early in the season, and who have recently gone 4 games without a win? Or do you mean LA who has played hideous football all year, but managed a playoff berth only because Dallas was even worse? Or are you implying the East is any better? Chicago has done well, but amazingly, they lost the season series to DC, wonder how that happened? So, maybe NE deserves their playoff slot, well except they recently went about 9 games without a win and only recently have found their form again. Or maybe NJ with their ridiculous 4 OT victories and 3 last second ties, they must surely have earned their playoff slot much more than DC. No? Point is that all teams have gone through wicked patches. That's the nature of MLS these days. The parity is just too much of a factor. To harken back to the dominant DC teams of '97 thru '99 is just foolish. Every team has a legitimate shot at a title and to be dismissive of DC because they are "hogging" is simply being ridiculously biased.
Marco10 - Sure the US backed into the second round at the World Cup. But we more than redeemed ourselves once we got there. What's your point? That we might redeem ourselves too? I did discuss that you know. By the way, I still think we should have done much better against Poland. I bet you do to. And so what that other teams have had rough patches too? That's not at all relevant to what I wrote. Had you read my post more carefully you would have seen that my issue isn't with the team playing badly but with folks being dishonest about that fact. Another thing about the "everyone else sucks too so you shouldn't complain" argument. Contrary to what you insist, not everyone sucks. Just because Chicago lost the season series to us doesn't diminish how well they played this season. But that's beside the point too. Even if it were true that every MLS team was crap (the parity argument you offer in the last paragraph) I'd think it a simple matter of integrity to be honest in that assesment. I'm not going to take crap and call it gold just because all we've got is crap. I don't grade on the curve. And where did I dismiss the team? Anything can happen, as Hristo says ...
Great, you guys are banging the fat chick while were putting it to a schitzo who ran short of medication a month ago. You all should be sending roses to Mark Williams for helping to dismantle what was turning into a solid defense with Akwari back there. Don't forget Andrulis, either. He could use the pick-me-up after he becomes one of the new jobless.
I have to say I pretty much agree with Knave. At one point in this season it appeared that we were playing well. LA and San Jose at home the team started to pick things up. Metros on the road even though we lost Nick we played well. Then Olsen went down and since then this team is just not good at all. I do not think any fan should be satisfied with the team coming in 7th out of 10 teams in the league. I hope we play Chicago tough and I think we will in the home leg but I expect us to take an ass kicking in Soldier Field.
If the tradition is restored by slipping into the playoffs on the last week of the season after blowing a couple of chances to qualify in previous weeks, people's standards have plummeted. I'm very excited we made the playoffs. I'll be there Saturday cheering them on. But let's be real here. DC has two traditions - winning (96-99) and sucking (00-02). This is somewhere in between.
Knave, here are my thoughts on your thoughts.... 1. I think our results haven't been there the past month. I also think our ability to consistently score (even if in low figures) disappeared when Olsen went down (it's a sad commentary when an outside mid seems to be the key to your goal scoring). That's depressing. 2. At the same time, DCU continues to post good second half/last 30 minutes results, doesn't lose big to anyone and continually battles in every match. I think any other team in MLS would have tossed it in at some point this season given what this side has gone through. If nothing else, the OT losses in September should have just devastated the morale of this team. Yet they kept showing up and kept fighting. That's remarkable. 3. I think that (next to LA), we're the team in the playoffs that is going to be a battle for whomever we face. We're not hottest team. With our injuries, we're not the most talented now. We've never really played to our ability. And we struggle to score. All of that sounds depressing. But I"m going to be shocked if anyone gets more than a 1-goal lead against us. And we somehow find a way to manufacture goals (of late, it's been from the penalty spot). 4. Look at the other Eastern competitors for a second will you. We're hogging? What about Metros--are they a team with "destiny"? Or, take away all of their last minute wins (and that begins from game 3 I think when they beat Columbus 1-0 totally against the run of play). Counting on John Wolyniec to produce goals would be like us listing AJ Wood as our "go to guy". Maybe they're a team that has found a way to gut out wins and create scores. Or maybe there a team that has gone as far as coaching and luck can take them. If I were a Metro fan, I'd be feeling much more leery about the playoffs than a DCU fan (actually, if I were a Metro fan I'd be feeling much more than leery...). NE--they're on a bit of a roll right now. But Nicol's system is built on defense and the one constant for them all season has been the ineptitude of their defense. Now Twellman is out. Do you really want to count on Noonan or Brian Kamler as your goal scorers? The last team is Chicago--who has had a brilliant season. And we've played them tough all year and gotten good results from them. I don't think I"m being optimistic here. There are major limits to this United side. But the teams still in the mix have their problems as well.
Bottom Line: There are two games in November to play, perhaps a third and a fourth as well. They have a crack at the whole ball of wax just like the other seven teams who qualified. Bring it on! Every team is 0-0 now. I don't care how they got there, the bottom line is for the first time in four years, they are in post season.
Joe, by good second half results are you talking about losing to LA in OT, letting Metros tie the game in the last second, letting NE win in OT, and then letting Columbus win in OT?? 4 out of our last 8 games have had terrible last minute results.
might get into trouble w/ this one... Shame on you. "a fat chick"? dude, come on. Knave, you are dangerously close to sounding like a soccer fascist. You old guys had such an unblievibly good thing for a while 96-99, that you are totally spoiled. Diagnosing you w/ "We Will Win EverythingEvery Year" syndrome. It just never happens that way. Of course I would like them to be awesome, but I like them just as much RIGHT NOW. If they go absolutley nuts in the playoffs and do win everything you should stop being a moderater. If they did, just thinking, win it all, would you gripe that they didn't do it "pretty" enough? Our would your big complaint be that they only won one, and not 4 in a row? No one will confuse this team w/ Man U, but COME ON, as fans we don't "expect". We root, we cheer, we hope. The only sure things are death and taxes, and when a team who isn't the most talented wins it makes me fell really GOOD! Probably out of my league w/ this debate, and don't want to rant. I just really like this organization. Return to glory? I really do not know. I do know that Hristro is right, anything could happen....
jackrock is absolutely right... DC United is an MLS team and no team in MLS can be expected to dominate the league considering all the rules and salary cap....of course i didn't expect DC United not to make the playoffs for 3 years when it's fairly easy to do so....what I'm trying to say is that it's easy to highlight the good times because no one can take those championships from our memories, but I remember 96. In 96 my dad said he was thinking about buying me season tickets. But the team started horribly and my dad has a knack of promising a lot so he said it would have been a bad investment since the team couldn't beat anyone. Rally around these guys as if they were that early season team of 96. I rallied because of DC is my home sports town. The team is inconistent, yes, the late minute lapses are glaring, yes, the substitution usage of Hudson is poor, yes, the many injuries leave us depleted, yes. But we're in now and like New England did last year anything can happen in MLS.
I am tired of the bitching. Fukc pretty soccer. Bottom line are results. The result right now is we are in the playoffs for the first time in years. I will make the two hour drive and I will stand and cheer and sing because I love my team. I love it that they made it to the playoffs. I am sick of supporters saying we could have done better. Hell if we had all done better with our own lives we might be doing something more important than posting on a bulletin board thousands and thousands of times. Enough of the bitching and get to the supporting. I know this will bring the blind support is stupid blah-blah-blah yadda-yadda but I don't care, some may call her ugly but not matter what I love the bitch that is DC United.
I agree 100 percent, but let's see if anything happens before we declare the tradition has continued. I'll be there, cheering and bouncing, but that doesn't mean I have my blinders on to the fact that this team has a hell of a mountain to climb. The tradition that people are talking about is a tradition of winning championships, not just making the playoffs. I expect more than just qualifying for the final 8.
i too think our recent results and the whole last half of the season are a mixed bag for giving guideance to a playoff prediction. yeah we pretty much struggled with injuries/suspensions and poor attacking at the end of the season. but as ugly and crappy as we played, we had a legitimate shot to win each of those matches. there is no reason to think we can't put ourselves in a position to win these matches. of course on the other hand, in an elimination format it does little good to simply put yourself in the position to win. there are some good things--cards/suspensions gone and some guys--tino, earnie--seem to be healing a bit. we are likely to be as healthy as we are gonna get. stoichkov seems to be on a bit of a tear. having our full defense healthy and eligible to play ought to help settle warren as well. i have to say one of my biggest concerns right now is cerritos. do you recall his first couple of games with united--he simply always went to goal hard, now he seems to have lost the directness. that is really missing right now, that lethal focus on the net. maybe tino will come in the game with fresh legs and new hunger for goals.
Except NE went into the playoffs winning 5 of it's last 6 games, while we are limping into the playoffs. There is a big momentum difference. Just making it to the play-offs should be a boost for the team but with the way they're playing is in contrast to the way NE was playing going into the play-offs last year.
Considering how well Noonan is doing right now. I would count on him to score. They've been riding his hot foot for the past few weeks and he has definitely been a surprise. I don't think anyone expected that he would make such an impact. Of course no one expected Twellman to miss the last quarter of the season and the whole post-season either. NE is so much more than the sum of it's parts. They have the wherewithal to withstand the lost of a key player better than most teams. Their defense was comical for large parts of the season but I think they've regrouped well. Their series with NY will be a fun one to watch, especially after the schellacking they gave an understrength NY side on Saturday.
Paperwork piling up. cant ... stop...checking ....boards. you guys remember a few years ago the Angels? Particularly the "rally monkey"? Did a siemian make the players any more skilled? no, but there was something, a vibe, a feel, something intangible. There is a difference between blindly ignoring facts, like stats and the other teams record, and adding to the intangible. Nobody is like "yeah, chi. we'll crush them ON TO GLORY!" Everybody KNOWS their good. But it detracts from the spirit, that intangible, when fans.... what do you call it? Dog the team? "we slipped in... barely" "We backed in there" "if oour team was a girl she'd be fat and nasty" this time of year i would rather be lucky than good.
You know if we had won just TWO more games this year, we would be tied for second place in the East. If we had lost just ONE more game, we'd be out of the playoffs again. I love this team. Not being in the playoffs is an absolutely dismal proposition to me. Only the worst team in each conference stays home. At this moment we're not the worst. That's all I'm allowing myself to celebrate right now. If we show well against the Fire, good. If we make it to the Semis, awesome. Anything more than that, I can't even imagine at this stage. As for the "hogging" analogy... well, here's mine: The beautiful team I married eight years ago has just reminded me why I've stuck with her all these years, why I married her in the first place. We'd still be together if she lost on Saturday, but goddamn if she doesn't look better to me tonight than she has in years...
You're not just optimistic, but blindly optimistic. Good "second half" results? I presume you're not talking about the last five matches, where we lost twice in overtime and allowed a game-tying goal in the depths of "added time." Are you talking about our 2-1 win over San Jose, where we scored in the 81st - and had to, because we had allowed a game-tying goal in the 80th? Or our 2-1 win over LA where we dominate the first half, then give up a second-half goal and have to hold on for the last 40 minutes? We lost two matches before that, then beat Colorado 1-0 on a first-half goal. You have to go back to August 9th to find an example of a good "second half" result. If by "manufacture goals" you mean "Stoichkov gets in the penalty area and falls down," then I'd rather us be on the golf course. We certainly could have used one more "manufactured" goal in the last five games (than the five we got) - that's all it would have taken to wrap this thing up much earlier. And let's talk about the other Eastern Conference squads. I love it when people say things like, "take away all of their last minute wins (and that begins from game 3 I think when they beat Columbus 1-0 totally against the run of play)." Why? Why should we throw those wins out? Do they count for less? They won those games - you know, win, something we haven't done in five games? Pat Noonan is tied for 9th in the league in scoring. Marco Etheverry, our leading scorer, is tied for 13th, eight points behind. So, who would you rather have, Noonan or any of our forwards, who have combined for 14 goals (and that's giving you Q2, since he's listed as M/F on MLSNet)? Yes, we have played against Chicago well, especially Stoichkov. How, I have no idea, but anytime you can take a season series against a team with that kind of firepower, you're doing something right. But note that we lost our last game against them in a fairly lopsided manner (there's your second half result again - we were tied at halftime, then lost 3-1). And again, Chicago is 9-3-4 over its last 16 games, including three straight wins before Sunday's "Spiteri Incident." I would love to be drinking the Kool-Aid (is it grape? I love grape) right along with you. And who knows, maybe this is some manifstation of me being jealous that, while most of you are at RFK this Saturday I'll be sitting in my place in Culver City in front of my TV. Maybe if I was going to be back in that atmosphere again, I'd be more amped, too. But backing into the playoffs as the last conference seed (7th overall! Woo-hoo!), not winning in five matches and not looking like a team that would threaten to score ever since Olsen went down injured hasn't given me a lifeline to hold onto. But that doesn't mean I won't be yelling my *#*#*#*#ing head off in front of the TV come Saturday. RS
Very well said... If I didnt have so many damn quotes under my posts as it is I would have loved to have added this one as well.