Retro night? Diplomats Third Kit?

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by Doctor Woo, Mar 12, 2005.

  1. Lanky134

    Lanky134 New Member

    Oct 25, 1999
    134, 3, 6
    Re: Retro night?

    Are you seriously trying to draw a connection between the Negro Leagues and the NASL?
     
  2. DutchFootballRulez

    Jul 15, 2003
    Baltimore, MD
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Retro night?

    No I don't think we was THAT serious.
     
  3. Doctor Woo

    Doctor Woo Member

    Nov 5, 1999
    Newport, OR
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Retro night?

    Good point, the team no longer exists. On the other hand, it sells. I have United home and away shirts. I haven't worn them out yet. If DCU can acquire back the rights it might make some green. Certainly I can't see the Virginia Beach Mariners having a retro night, at least not in Dips unis.

    Part of the charm of it would be to make a connection with the history of soccer in the US. DC soccer history has been evolutionary, with MLS standing on the shoulders of forebearers. That is part of the reason (I believe) that DCU took off so suddenly is that I (for one) had been dying for a professional league for 15 years or more since losing our team

    Finally, you first laughed at the name "Dips", then grew to not even think about it, then actually because proud of it, like having the first name of Alyoicius or the last name "Wooton". (Know of that one personally.)
     
  4. InWoodbridge

    InWoodbridge Member

    Aug 21, 2002
    Northern Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Retro night?

    Let’s not forget that a lot of fans were not enamored with the name United; but cannot think of a more appropriate or loved name. This idea of the retro night is just as a tie back to the teams of the past.


    Could you imagine an ASL retro night by the MetroStars commemorating the ASL’s Brookhattan club with retro Joe Gaetjens jersesys? Come to think about it the movie “Game of their Lives” is getting promoted through MLS (did you see the fliers at the CCC game) so there may be an ASL retro night.


    How about the Fall River Marksmen retro night featuring Billy Gonsalves (the Metros could be in on Billy night as well using ASL Brooklyn Hispano retro night).


     
  5. ButlerBob

    ButlerBob Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 13, 2001
    Evanston, IL
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Retro night?


    You beat me to the punch. I was going to post about the '88 Diplomats team. They had local product Michael Brady that had playd at American. Their owner sponsored a local team that had won the US Open Cup the year before. I think the team was made up of a lot of players from that team. I forget the owners name, but most of the team was hispanic. The Stars on the other hand was more suburban, they playd out in Fairfax VA. I believe that their GM was Gordon Bradley and coach was John Kerr.

    The Marland Bays had Dave "it's in the net" Johnson as their media/ pr director.
     
  6. KGDG2005

    KGDG2005 Member

    Feb 13, 2005
    Arlington VA
    Re: Retro night?

    I agree. There is no way I would have plunked down money in year one for season tickets for Etcheverry et al sight unseen without having had a connection to Cruyff and company playing in RFK.

    Without those memories of being in RFK and cheering for goals, I doubt I would have taken such a leap of faith. That is far different than those rushing to plunk down money for the latest version of the Expos.

    BTW it is interesting that this topic came up when baseball is changing its whole advertising scheme

    Stuart Elliott's NYT article on Fans being baseball's new stars

    <much snipped>

    The "Octagon Passion Drivers" report, based on research among more than 10,000 passionate fans of 25 sports, shows that admiration for players ranks fifth among motivations for baseball fans, trailing team devotion (with its related sense of belonging), nostalgia (particularly linking baseball and one's family history), the social aspects of the sport, and personal indulgence (baseball as time for oneself).

    By contrast, for fans of Nascar, the car drivers "are 1, 2, 3" among the reasons to follow stock-car racing, said Rick Dudley, president and chief executive at Octagon, whereas for baseball "unless you're among the elite, a Derek Jeter, you're not going to break through."


    It would be interesting to see how soccer fans (DC area ones) in particular would rank in such a survey.

    Although now is probably not the time to introduce a retro night style event, I would argue that when the new stadium is built and DC/MLS is hunting for new revenue streams that it would be foolish to turn one's back on history.

    When the league began, KP/Soros/whoever clearly saw this market as a mature or soccer savvy one. Otherwise we may have ended up with something indigestable as "Metrostars" as a name or uniforms as unpalatable as the Clash.

    "The Tradition Begins" to me was an acknowledgement that there was a tradition of sorts already established here and that they needed to find a way to kick start (our repression of certain elements of it). That does not mean throwing the proverbial baby out with the bathwater... if there is a buck to be made on "retro" stuff - make it!! Just do it with some class and I am sure there is a market out there to entice those of my generation to lighten our wallets.

    Come on United (States and DC)

    KGDG
     
  7. Doctor Woo

    Doctor Woo Member

    Nov 5, 1999
    Newport, OR
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Retro night?

    "Concentrating on the fans rather than the players may also make more sense for baseball than for other sports, according to data from new research conducted for Octagon Worldwide, a sports marketing agency in New York."

    And, I would contend, for soccer. Part of the reason I love United is that I am invested in them. I feel kinship with other DCU fans, when in reality all we have in common is that we like the same team. (Reality sucks, eh?) But here I am, a grey-haired 47-year professional with a DC United banner in my office 1300 miles away. This gives me a place to belong, and it beats religion because games are more fun than services.

    Everyone's gotta believe in something. I believe I'll have another drink.-- WC Fields. (I think I have a new sig line.)
     
  8. MeridianFC

    MeridianFC Member

    Jul 26, 1999
    Washington, DC USA
    Re: Retro night?

    "A people without knowledge of their past history, culture and origin is like a tree without roots"
    - Marcus Garvey

    "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
    - George Santayana

    "Retro night would be cool if for no other reason than the funky old school jerseys. Ya dig".
    -MeridianFC
     
  9. InWoodbridge

    InWoodbridge Member

    Aug 21, 2002
    Northern Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Retro night?

    You are correct sir. I remember sitting next to Gordon when they called my name for the kick the ball through the tire and win a Taurus contest. I was wearing shoes with no laces and forgot. The shoe went closer to going in than the ball. Gordon then tracked me down and said "I would have tried to get you the car if the shoe went through."

    Wow, this is my 200th post :)
     
  10. Lanky134

    Lanky134 New Member

    Oct 25, 1999
    134, 3, 6
    Re: Retro night?

    The difference is that it is not our history. It's another team's history that happened to play in the same town and stadium as United, and trying to glom onto it is just wrong. It's like when the New York Mets came into existence, and they took the orange NY of the Giants and merged it with Dodger blue.

    The founders of MLS put into place a system that, however flawed, was specifically designed to avoid the mistakes of the NASL. Every attempt to link NASL history with MLS has been a failure: Tampa Bay, Fort Lauderdale and San Jose were given teams because they had NASL teams, Retro nights in NASL cities have not been particularly successful, the shootout, one-named teams in New Jersey.

    What we have now is better.
     
  11. InWoodbridge

    InWoodbridge Member

    Aug 21, 2002
    Northern Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Retro night?

    This is a good point. Maybe the retro or the historical remembrances should be WRT USOC games. Those games currently do not get the fan support that they deserve and they are a tie back to the earlier leagues. That would mean forgetting connections to the NASL teams since they did not participate in the event. As I mentioned earlier there were some good ASL teams in the 40s & 50s or at least teams with important US soccer players.



    ;) On the other hand this may be the golden age of US soccer and there is no need to remember the past.
     
  12. neilgrossman

    neilgrossman New Member

    May 12, 2000
    Hoboken, NJ
    Re: Retro night?

    Probably my fault in not being clear. I was partially trying to contrast the two.

    If there was ever some reason to look back at a sport league and be embarassed, its the segregation that the Negro league illustrates.

    I think the negro league throwbacks are great jerseys not just because they're cool, but also because of how far we've come since those days.

    For the reason the Negro League stuff is great, we shouldn't look down on an old league because it failed or because society didn't warm up to it.

    Obviously, the NASL is no where close to the negro league in either regard, but I used the extreme to make my point. Sorry if I offended anyone.
     
  13. Lanky134

    Lanky134 New Member

    Oct 25, 1999
    134, 3, 6
    Re: Retro night?

    No offense taken, I just didn't get the context. I like the Negro Leagues jerseys, too, and next time I get to Kansas City I want to visit their museum. But the Negro Leagues should be studied and celebrated because it was symbolic of the struggle at the time, and how these athletes were living lives considerably different to their Major League counterparts, despite, in many cases, having as much or more talent. It failed when baseball integrated and the best black players were now on Major League teams.
     
  14. MeridianFC

    MeridianFC Member

    Jul 26, 1999
    Washington, DC USA
    Re: Retro night?

    I disagree.

    To my mind it's our sport and our town and therefore our history. What is a team but deputized representatives of a place and its people? In the 60s it was the Darts now it's United. I understand that it's a different team(s) and rememebering that means remembering the mistakes, the world has changed since then, maybe not everyone has a connection, but to my mind the remembering is important. Are the Dips any less are part of Washington area soccer history? As was stated earlier, how often has someone bashed soccer as some johnny come lately sport in our city, or hell country? United, while its own experience, is part of a continuation of the sport in this area. Witness the people who have posted here saying how they got their start watching the Whips/Darts/Dips/Team America. Soccer's had a long, albeit patchy, crazy, sometime ugly history in our fair city.
     
  15. Winoman

    Winoman Drinkin' Wine Spo-De-O-De!

    Jul 26, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Retro night?

    Right on! I'm with you on this. Though the two teams are (obviously) not related, the love of the sport surely is. There was a VERY big empty, not only in WDC, but the rest of the NASL towns, when the league folded. "Soccer Made in Germany" & occasional USMNT games were my two life-lines to the sport I loved. When MLS started back up, it was a true joy for me - not unlike the WDC baseball fans, now.
     
  16. urtel

    urtel Member

    Jul 16, 2003
    PDX
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Nat'l Team:
    Finland
    Re: Retro night?

    It's just too bad none of those jerseys are available today! I wish I had the sense to get those when I was youngers, when I was 11! Espeically the Mutiny or Clash. I miss the Tampa Bay Mutiny.
     
  17. todd11

    todd11 Member

    Oct 23, 2002
    Berlin, Germany--
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Retro night?

    I think you may be underestimating the power of nostalgia. Just off the top of my head I can think of, like, 10 friends of mine (some soccer involved, and some not) who have really fond memories of the Dips even though we were all of 9 or 10 yrs old at the zenith of the NASL (ie.very late 70s- 1980). H3ll, my brother and I had a poster of all the NASL logos that came in a Kixx Cereal box. Wish I still had that jammie. No way to really know, but I think there are actually alot of us "Pele's Kids" among the fans of MLS.

    Retro night would be cool, I think. As others have pointed out, soccer has a real history in this country and it deserves to be pointed out the lineage from whence DCU springs. Well, that and plus I'd have a good reason to tell my wife why I'm growing out a mullet in homage to those bygone days of youth...
     
  18. InWoodbridge

    InWoodbridge Member

    Aug 21, 2002
    Northern Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Retro night?


    I may fall into that characterization only in that I do not think that we missed a NASL game where Pele played. I was an NASL fan not because of Pele but because they were playing the same game that I grew to love. The first professional game I ever went to was on May 1, 1974 at RFK in Washington--the first home game for the expansion Washington Diplomats. The Dips’ opponent was the defending league champion Philadelphia Atoms. Even with the loss (5-1) it was just a great day. I will never forget my first view of the pitch at RFK stadium it was just beautiful. Maybe I should take time to write it up. No matter how the purists complain and ridicule NASL and its idiosyncrasies as an 11 year old I was hooked. My dad could not take me to enough games. I was also at RFK for D.C. United's first game I took my kids to that.

    One last thought, thanks Dad!
     
  19. The Cold Sea

    The Cold Sea Señor Mejor

    Feb 17, 2005
    The District
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Re: Retro night?

    :eek: I know MLS wants to trot out the original kits sometime during this anniversary year, but, man, it would be unbearable. I feel about this like I feel about those VH1 shows: they're cool for the 70's, but the late 80's and 90's are too close to home and full memory. It's just not fun when the pain of an era remains in memory and easily stirred...and these original kits, save DCU, are painful. I’d be more for the old NASL kits being worn than these.
     
  20. Sundevil9

    Sundevil9 New Member

    Nov 23, 1999
    Reston, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Retro night?

    It's just one more reminder of United's superiority.
     
  21. Wheezy

    Wheezy New Member

    Sep 5, 2001
    NoVa
    Re: Retro night?

    If I had a time machine, I'd go back and get "Tough" Tommy O'hara and slot him in the backline with Petke and Namoff! Tommy always thought that shinguards were for sissies and he was right.
     
  22. United_Caps_Fan

    United_Caps_Fan New Member

    Apr 25, 2004
    Alexandria,VA 134/35
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Retro night?


    I too could not agree more. My first exposure to pro soccer was the Diplomats. My father took me to a few games at RFK in the late 70's/ early 80's, and I have loved watching the sport ever since. I too might not have been so fast to jump on the D.C. United train back in 96 when MLS plunked down the franchise here had it not been for my previous exposure through the Diplomats. D.C. United is but part of a much longer and larger history of soccer in Washington D.C.. While it most certainly is its own and different entity, organisation, with its own storied and decorated history, it is still but a part of a continuing saga/ tradition of soccer in DC.

    I can also assure you that there are far more than 100 people around the metro area that remember the Dips. In fact, most of the time I end up entertaining questions about soccer ( usually because im wearing something D.C. United or USMNT) the Dipd are almost always brought up. Sometimes it almost seems like more people remember who they were, than know who D.C. United IS. I liek the idea of a retro night. In fact, when the time is right, Im all for TWO retro nights. One just specifically for D.C. United and thier history, then another for professional soccer in D.C. as a WHOLE.

    Even if its not DCU wearing dips jerseys, it could be bringing back many of the NASL/ Dips stars/ players for an "old timers" match and doing it as a double header.

    Anyway, I think it would be good for the sport in our area in general , and pretty cool to boot. :D
     
  23. DCUdiplomat96

    DCUdiplomat96 Member

    Mar 19, 2005
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    hey fellow DCU fans what do u think? for historical morale inherit the"Diplomats"Nick

    what do u think? DC United "Diplomats"? also bring a third modified dip jersey or replace the whites?? Holla back???
     
  24. URwormfood

    URwormfood Member

    Mar 24, 2004
    6 feet under: LOT 8
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: hey fellow DCU fans what do u think? for historical morale inherit the"Diplomats"

    Wasnt there a lame thread on this a few weeks back???

    :confused:

    ~~Worm~~
     
  25. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    ... mod's note ...

    Aye. Merged.
     

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