Retire Marco's Number Ten

Correct sentiment, bad idea.

There are only a limited number of squad numbers, unless we start imitating the NHL and have squad numbers in the 60's and 70's.

Nothing would further the overseas opinion that MLS is a backwater league more than having players wearing, for instance, #53. This would certainly be scornful to British eyes.

As strange and hopeful as this may sound, some day DC United will be celebrating its 100th anniversary.

If we start the tradition of retiring player numbers in 2004, when the 22nd century hits, new signees will need to be sporting numbers in the 80's and 90's.

Don't get me wrong. If ever there was a player for whom to make "an exception to the rule", it's Marco.

We should put Marco's #10 shirt on display next to Harkie's at RFK and aggitate until the schumks at DCSEC agree to put Marco on the RFK Ring of Fame.

 

I'll disagree. The #10 is the typical playmaker number. It is synnonmous with great players and no team that I know of would retire such a prestigious number.

Despite what you suggested, Adu is not likely to get that number. He already has enough pressure on him without having the weight of that number forced upon him. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see Convey or Stewart take over the number and the role.

As for Etch, I'm sure he'll be placed in the Ring when it's appropriate. However, retiring his number is a very drastic step and uncommon in soccer as opposed to football, basketball, or hockey.

 

4everDCfan – Welcome to the boards but please don’t call people idiots just because you disagree with them. Attack the post if you like but not the poster.

This question came up once before on the board, buried in the tail end of some thread. What I wrote there is what I'd say now. With some very slight editing, here's what I wrote ...

... ... ... ... ...

I object to retiring the #10. A one year moratorium might be appropriate but it’s an insult to the future of this team to retire the number.

The best reasons for retiring it are that it honors Etcheverry and it removes the pressure that wearing the number 10 incurs. Both of these are certainly defensible in certain respects but retiring the number is shortsighted. Doing so fails to take into account the long term future of this team.

The number 10 cannot be retired precisely because it does incur a ridiculous amount of pressure. Perhaps nobody on the team right now can wear the number and stand shoulder to shoulder with Etcheverry when he was at his peak. But who is to say that in 10 or 20 years MLS and US soccer won't have grown so substantially that someone else won't come along that'll make Etcheverry look amateur in comparison. And why shouldn't such a person have the opportunity to wear the 10 shirt?

If we retire the 10 then we've essentially said that nobody who ever plays for DC United in the future will be able to stand as Etcheverry's equal let alone that anybody will ever exceed Etcheverry's stature. That's a shortsighted position to hold. It's also an insult to what DC United might become in time and an insult to every DC United player to come who might actually merit the shirt.

I prefer to think that DC United's best days are yet to come, that its best players are not yet on the team - that they perhaps haven't even been born yet. I look forward to seeing the line of players who shoulder the responsibility of the 10 shirt. Hopefully it will be a line that will make us – and Etcheverry - proud.

 

I agree with the one year moratorium on issuing the #10 shirt. And Marco's name should find a place on the Standards of Excellence Banner as soon as it can be arranged.

Here's an idea what about Barra Brava or the SE's add a banner for 2004? Just an "Etcheverry #10" to hang between the group name banners. Maybe this can be a tradition for fan faves that move along?

We don't necessarily need to wait for the team to honor a player that has given us a lot over the years.

 

Welcome to bigsoccer 4everDCfan

I don't like the idea of retiring numbers because that makes a player greater than the team he/she plays for. I've never really been a big fan of the whole process to begin with, even in other sports. Also, in soccer, the number of the jersey means more than it does in any other sport than I can think of. How often do you see players in other sports change their number as their career goes on. Their is a special significant to numbers 10, 9, 8, 7, or even 1 for some teams. In addition, there's an honor that is bistowed upon a player when he is offered to wear the same number of a great player that came before him.

As for United's number 10 jersey... I'd say that Bobby should take it if he's going to be the play maker for this team. I'm sure Bobby would honor Marco's legacy considering what Marco has done for Bobby while he's been at United. Plus, part of me kind of hopes that if Bobby is given all this responsibility he won't be so tempted to leave mid-season... plus a successful season with United could help his stock when it comes to being sold.

 

Marco Antonio Etcheverry Simply the Best

I believe Marco Etcheverry is the best footballer who has ever worn the shirt of a Washington DC football club. Certainly in his prime he was head and shoulders better than anyone I have seen for any DC area club, and as I have said on other threads I've been watching pro soccer around here for 30 years. And we have had some outstanding players, especially with the advent of DC United.

That said, I believe Marco should be appropriately honored, with a place in the ring of fame, "retiring" his jersey (but not his number), and oh, man, we just gotta get him back for a farewell match. Maybe we can get Bolivar (his new club) to come to RFK and he can play a half for each squad. But if I had to guess I do not think even Marco would want the number 10 retired.

I am not the most knowledgeable on such things, but it seems in soccer there is a general understanding that the players use certain numbers, but when their careers are over, the numbers are passed on to others. The numbers denote certain roles every team requires. It has been aptly said that the #10 shirt is for the playmaker, the creative force of the team. I don't think even Brazil retired Pele's #10.

So, my sense is, lets honor Marco, but lets also honor the game by keeping the shirt numbers available.

 

Re: Marco Antonio Etcheverry Simply the Best

Isn't this what they did for Harkes, retire the jersey but not the number? This would be appropriate. The DCSEC has a requirement about the ring of fame there at RFK and Marco doesn't come close as of right now. Maybe when DC gets their own stadium that could their first order of business.

 

Re: Marco Antonio Etcheverry Simply the Best

If I remember well, Marco went to La Paz last season trying to get a Bolivian National team Vs DCU friendly, or Bolivar VS DCU friendly, it'd be a good money maker in DC w/the Bolivian poppulation.

I actually remember my first soccer game at RFK it was a Bolivar Vs El Salvador's Firpo match years ago, early 90's (maybe). It was a 1-1 Tie. Or a 2-2 tie. My gramps, uncle, and I went with my Salvadorian buddy Gamma. Good game.

I vaguely remember 3 things:
- A very young Cristaldo playing for Bolivar
- Some really attractive Salvadorian ladies, wearing more skin than clothes, (I couldn't complain, but a few guys did whistle)
- One guy being chased by 7-8 Guys in Yellow jackets w/"SECURITY" on the backs. It looked like a Mario Brs. Video game. Of course to this day I don't know why he didn't run "Out" of RFK. Only a dummy runs "UP" the upper balcony.

 

Retire the jersey, not the number.

 

Marco deserves to be honored, no question.

Retiring of jerseys is kind of silly and overwrought in my opinion. What better way to keep great players in your thoughts than to continually compare new wearers of that number to the those who wore it with distinction.

 

And this is a problem why? Screw the Brits with their scornful eyes. Once they field up a team that can beat us, maybe I'll worry about them. Perhaps the scorning Brits you fear may want to go back and discover why they should instead be scorning Spurs, Newcastle, Leeds, and Blackburn -- namely, all the British teams that found they couldn't beat DC United.

 

I wouldn't make too much of the overseas perception, but there is a nub of an issue there. The main source of the negative view some Euros might have of a jersey-retiring induced raising of average numbers is the simple fact that it would be non-traditional.

 

Actually with the increased squad sizes in Premiership teams, there have been a few "non-traditional" numbers. I believe the stand-in left back for Arsenal Juan wore #53 in a league cup game. Frankie Simek (American at Arsenal) wears #51 on the senior side and he played vs. Wolves in the League Cup.

Back on topic - retiring Etch's number would be simply self-defeating. When I'm 82, I want to look back and remember the numerous quality players that got the priveledge and honor of wearing the #10 shirt for DC United!

 

I think retiring numbers in any league is totally retarded. Isn't there an NFL team - the Chicago Bears maybe? - who have so many numbers retired that they're running into trouble now?

Its a nice sentiment, but totally impractical. And retiring #10 on a soccer team is as impractical as you get.

 

Re: Re: Marco Antonio Etcheverry Simply the Best

I remember that game! JEez...those wore the sad and desperate days of settling for second best. cholivar vs. Firpo...talk about a gathering of bulls with boobies (I'd use another word but Knave would probably card me for it)
I remember the guy getting chased around by security and yes, only a "dummy" runs up the upper balcony. He was either a cholivar fan or a sallie, not much difference there.

 

Re: Marco Antonio Etcheverry Simply the Best

I'd have to say Johann Cruyff is the best footballer who has ever worn the jersey of a DC club. On the other hand, he was past his prime, and not here very long, so Etcheverry's actual contributions were definitely more significant.

Otherwise, I completely agree with your take on the matter

Ring of Fame: definitely
Retire the number: no

I also like the 1-year moratorium idea.

 

There are a couple of points here that shouldn't be hidden in all the name calling.

1) Marco had four great years with DCU, and four less-than-stellar years. The last two would be counted absolutely abysmal if he were not scoring regularly from the penalty spot. It's no coincidence that DC United plunged as fast as Marco's stats. Is this enough to be considered a Hall-of-Fame-worthy career?

No.

2) Marco was the cornerstone of the premier franchise in the League, at a time when the league was in serious jeopardy on a day-to-day basis. Marco has been consistently and fervently involved in the community, both as ambassador and coach, since the beginning of his tenure here. With him at the helm, DC United achieved a level of international success for MLS for the first time. It's not coincidental that no team has managed to repeat United's international success, even if you grant the highly unlikely claim that the Space Cadets scared Europe into cancelling the last World Club Cup. Marco's dedication to this club, playing through injury, absorbing all of the abuse, and still coming to work and doing what was asked of him, plus nurturing and developing several young Americans is an example that very few in this league can equal, and non can challenge.

Are THESE things worthy of an automatic ticket to the Hall of Fame?

Unquestionably.

There's two things to consider here--Marco's effect as a player, and Marco's effect as a pioneer. His effect as a player is cluttered with some give-and-take. There's good and bad there. Marco's effect as a pioneer makes ALL of the difference. What Fah Que doesn't understand, refuses to understand, and will never credit as a legitiamte point, is that without pioneers, there are no folks to follow on and supersede.

Without Marco Etcheverry, Landon Donovan doesn't exist. Clint Mathis doesn't exist. Bruce friggin' Arena doesn't exist. An eighth place finish in the World Cup doesn't exist.

THAT is what Marco's legacy is, and THAT is what makes him worthy of any honor that is bestowed upon him by US Soccer, MLS, DC United, or just us--the fans.

 

Back to the debate.

Anybody who has been of the fan of DC United knows what he has meant to this club. Trolls, like Fah que. wouldn't because they aren't fans of the team. Marco was the original leader Praise for him is deserved.

I can't even imagine that he won't be in the ring of fame (again, if you ain't from here, don't talk about.) There are plenty of names up there that won't be as recognizable as Marco's.

Give the guy some credit. He was an amzing in his time when DC United was dynasty.

And yes, retire the jersey for a year. The player who tries to take #10 this year will look pretty egocentric to me.

 

In case anybody was wondering who I am referring to - this is in response to Fah Que's ramblings that have been, very responsibly, deleted.

 

Marco for the Hall!

I totally disagree with the poster that tried to unsuccessfully argue that Marco should not be enshrined into the Hall of Fame. I will rebut some of the weak arguments that have been made by the "dark side":

1.) Weak argument #1: Sammy Baugh played 40 years after pro football got started in the NFL. Marco played in it's "absolute infancy" when it was very weak.

Maybe Sammy wasn't the best example, but I am certain that, in every sport, there are players in their respective Hall that played during their league's "absolute infancy". A quick example that comes to mind is Jim Thorpe. Pro football started in the early 20's. Thorpe started playing around 1915-16. Like Marco, Thorpe played about 7-8 years in the pro league during the 20's. There are many other similar stories, but this one will sufice to shoot down the silly "players who play in their league's absolute infancy, should not be considered for the hall" argument.

2.) Weak argument #2: No pro sports league would allow someone in their Hall for only 5 good years.

I am sure that, again, there are many examples of this. One that comes to mind, is MLB catcher Al Lopez. Please look up his statistics and I dare you to come up with more than 5 good seasons for this baseball Hall of Famer. I reiterate: There are many more examples, but this one should be good enough to prove that 5 good years and good career, all-time stats, should definitely make someone eligible for the Hall.

3.) Weak argument #3: Without Marco, MLS would have spent money on another "marquee" player who would have been one of the pioneers of the league.

Yes. That's true. But that is not the point. The point is that Marco DID get signed by MLS and Marco DID make a huge impact, with his skill AND with his leadership. It's like saying that without Jim Thorpe, the pro football league would have signed another "marquee" player who would have propelled the league forward. Again . . . Yes. This is true. But the pro football league DID sign Thorpe and Thorpe WAS one of the league's great pioneer players.


4.) Weak argument #4: The league and team were not good during its infancy.

It was weaker than it is now - from a skill point-of-view. However, all leagues are weaker at their infancy. That has never precluded someone from the infancy period being inducted into their Hall.

Additionally, I maintain that DCU, with Marco at the helm, comprised a competitive team that could challenge many, but not all, around the world. Obviously, DCU didn't have many opportunties to prove this, but most of the friendlies that it played against club teams, and even national teams, from other countries, usually resulted in wins.

The biggest proof that this team was not as weak as the "dark side" is trying to portray and revise history, is in 1997 & 1998 when they reached the CONCACAF Champions Cup finals, beating Mexican club Toluca for the cup in '98. That impressive win earned them the right to face Toyota Cup champ, Libertadores champ and Brazilian club champ, Vasco da Gama in the Interamerican Cup Championship. In a two game series, DCU prevailed, and took home another trophy that proved that they were a very good team, not only in the U.S., but in the entire region.

5.) Weak argument #5: Marco was not that good of a player by the time he joined DCU.

Maybe. But he was still VERY good. Proof of this is how he did outside of the league during those years. In '97, he joined club team Barcelona and helped them to the Ecuadorian club championship. That same year, he scored 3 goals in 5 games for Bolivia on their road to the Copa America championship game. In '99, Marco was called 12 times by his national team for Copa America and FIFA Confederations Cup games. In '00, he was called four times by his national team to play in World Cup Qualifiers.

In conclusion, the naysayers are only trying to stir-up trouble, make very weak arguments and do not have a leg to stand on as evidenced above.

My next post will list some of Marco's accomplishments.

 

Maybe DC United can put his # on the shirts for a year. Whatever or however, Marco is due some big-time respect and recognition.