Situation: A1 is goalside of D1 who is 2nd to last (2d2L) defender when A2 tries to chip the ball to A1. The chip loops short and D1 moves upfield to clear the ball with a volley. D1 has time to trap and settle the ball but is excited and flails away at it and mis-kicks - fouling it off actually behind her to A1 to shoots and scores. Givens: We know that a ball deflecting off a GK or defender does not reset OS if the attacker is OS at the time the ball was played by a teammate. We know that if D1 had actually trapped the ball, taken a touch and then fouled it off that A1 would not have been OS because D1's having controlled and played the ball resets OS. Question: I usually consider that the "deflections" that do not reset OS are either plays where the defender makes no play but is just hit by the ball or where the defender has so little time that her attempt on the ball is pure reaction and she really has no control of where it is going. But if the defender has the opportunity to control and is not acting out of reaction but moves to the ball and just screws up is that "making a play on the ball" such as to reset OS or is A! still SOL? Jim, Pondering in Tacoma
I would rule that A1 was offside when the ball was played by A2. If D1 clears cleanly or traps, controls, and passes to a teammate upfield, then A1 isn't in the play. HOWEVER, since D1 misplayed the balll, A1 is in the play and should be called for being offside.
I too think there is merit for calling offside as the attacker gains an advantage from being in an offside position. However your premise of an opposing player taking 100% full and total ball control and uncontested posession is one of the stated criteria to reintialize the offside phase. If this is a bang, bang play where the time period is very short from the initial pass through to the interuption by the defender then to the offside attacker perhaps we could consider the ball as not completely controled and thus we go with the offside. If the opposing player trapped and touched the ball in some sort of set up position, moved forward a bit, a few taps with the feet then muffed the kick I could feel different. I also would look at if the offside player was trying to close the defender down perhaps exerting pressure? It comes down to an opinion on the part of the AR or CR at that moment for that match. Gaining an advantage by virtue of the offside position or being the lucky recipeant of a wayward pass coutesy of a defender's mistake. I will say I favour the offside call but with reservations. As I did not see the incident there could be doubt?
Offside is reset when a defender intentionally plays the ball (or the goalkeeper possesses it). A trap is not an intentional play, but almost any subsequent play is. Like a lot of other stuff, this is yahaddabethere. It sounds like A1 was close to D1 initially, in which event A1 is offside as soon as the ball was struck by A2 because she was ready to take advantage of any error that D1 might make. In those circumstabces the flag should have gone up immediately (as fast as the AR could perceive the situation). However, once offside is reset, if A1 is not actively involved in play by that time, she can play the ball.
I see no offside offense in the above description. For me, the goal would stand since the ball was last played, albeit misplayed, by an opponent. As to the question of a trap resetting play, this has been discussed many times, since the distinction between trapping and a deflection is not always clear. One of the ways to judge this is whether the defender was able to make, or did make a subsequent touch on the ball. In the above example, the misplay was the subsequent play after the trap, so clearly offside has been reset. Sherman
Re: Re: Reset Offside Maybe Sherman, In some ways I call it just like an advantage call I wait a few seconds to ensure everything is ok then we reset the offside play and should the defender now make an error too bad. Once convinced a defender has total and absolute control over posession of the ball there is no basis for determining an offside call based on that defender's playing of the ball poorly or an error in judgement. A good example was a mens league 2nd division game just a while back a defender cut out a through ball to an attacker some 20 yards out off near the touchline. He took it off the chest down to his feet and took two strides upfield touching the ball again to change direction. An onrushing non offside attacker was closing him down so he passed the ball back to his keeper. Mean while the former offside positioned player instead of returning directly upfield choose to cross into the middle. You quessed it he recieved the ball with much suprise and promptly scored. There was no doubt he benifited from being there however his teammate was not the last person to play it. It was a defender and as such no offside was possible. Another good example was in the EPL a keeper catches a shot in his arms as the offside attacker through momentum streaks by off the FOP into the goal area where the netting is. The keeper runs out and then drops the ball on the ground intending to kick it up field. Guess who comes back on the FOP from inside the netting to steal it and score? You bet. Good goal and give the keeper a kick in the butt. A significant difference where offside and gaining an advantage is true. I require 100% control 100% uncontested posession. Imagine the same situation as a defender takes the ball off his chest but a non offside player closes him down quickly so he turns and shields the ball trying to protect it and makes a pass back to his keeper. At issue here, he has position rather than total posession as the ball is in playing distance and is being contested. The control is not 100% as the defender rushes a pass in the direction of the keeper. So when the offside attacker is there to take advantage of this errant pass I would sanction the offside as an infringement and award the INDFK. IN the first two situations I would not.
After reading Sherman's answer and re-reading the above part of the initial question, I think it's a "had to be there". How much time does D1 have to trap and settle, for the level of play is a trap, control and clear an 50% play or a 99% play? Is he/she excited by the presence of A1 or A2 or the fact she has to perform with pressure on her? Around here, this time of year, getting a true bounce is never a given (lots of patching grass and bumpy fields from lots of rain). Unless D1 is not pressured by A1 or A2, has a reasonably simple trap (for level of play), has time to look around, and still misplays the ball; I'm calling offside.
Re: Re: Reset Offside I think that whipple is correct here. There was a trap,which is aclear control of the ball otherwise it wouldn't have been trapped. Then the second touch, no matter how quickly or badly played, clearly shows control. Should be a good goal.
Re: Re: Re: Reset Offside Please reread from the original post: ---------------------------- Originally posted by jacathcart - D1 has time to trap and settle the ball but is excited and flails away at it and mis-kicks - fouling it off actually behind her to A1 to shoots and scores. --------------------------- Some traps are better than other traps. Some of mine may go 5 or 10 yards. In this case, there was no trap, but a mis-kick. I infer from the description there was no control of the ball. Hence, my decision being OFFSIDE.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Reset Offside ....and this brings up that wonderful criteria of whether it was a trap, therby establishing control and resetting the offside, or a deflection off the defender, whereby the original play by the attacker's teammate prevails. If a trap, then the miskick becomes subsequent play: no offside. I would add that even without the subsequent play, that if the trap controlled the ball in playing distance of the defender and clearly not within playing distance of the offside positon attacker, play is also reset. I just recently had this situation in a game, where a defender chested a cross from an opponent to his feet apparantly not realizing that an attacker was in an offside position behind him. The keeper screamed so the defender stepped away from the ball, possibly thinking the keeper was going to pick it up. Instead the attacker deftly tapped it across the open goal mouth, for an onrushing teammate to slam into the net. This was one of those awkward situations where my AR had initially raised his flag, but lowered it after the goal was scored, but froze to draw a discussion or force me to make the call, as we had covered in our pre-game. As I explained to him, we are not there to compensate for the errors of the players. The defender had control and gave the ball away to the opponnet. That's the game.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Reset Offside Still with you on this one whipple. The player still had time to touch this ball twice.
I feel like I'm beating a dead horse. From the original description, I picture a U16 rec girls team with a ball that a better player would trap and clear. D1 does NOT trap the ball, but "D1 has time to trap and settle the ball but is excited and flails away at it and mis-kicks - fouling it off actually behind her to A1 who shoots and scores." This sounds more like a deflection than control, and I would not reset offside condition. My last words on the subject. PEACE.
Tom, If, in your opinion, the attempt to trap or otherwise play the ball did not meet the standards of control for the game you were doing, then you are exactly right. No reset. Others might judge it differently. We all have different styles and standards and futher must learn to adapt these to the game we are officiating. Here is a link to an article by Ed Rae I posted, yesterday which touches on some of this. http://www.massref.net/ins0503a.htm Sherman