Required TV viewing for USMNT fans and/or History buffs Last night I checked out Super Estadio on GolTV, since the US-Mexico match approaches. The show covered issues such as: The ref :they had a Mexican ref analyze the Salvadorian who will work this match, based on what he had seen of this guy's previous work. The psychological aspect (a doctor explained the change in moods, setting of goals, strategy, mental preparation,etc. all alluding to this Sunday's soccer match-Quite entertaining).... The doctor had been involved with the Mexican NTs apparently since 1994, and even earlier, as her dad was a doctor too..... Of course, to me the best part were the last 10 minutes of the show: A reporter (his name escapes me) started to look at history between these two nations, his focus firmly planted on WHAT happened in 1934? To date, I had never seen such detailed TV account of what transpired between Mexico-US that day in Italy.... Provided with pictures, newspapers clips of the time, how Mexico had to manage in Europe after the game (this last part gets sillier and sillier, if you imagine yourself in that situation) Really should not miss it..... Provided those among you that don't understand Spanish possess access to the English audio version, you should be set.... Show will be aired again at 11 AM ET (HINT: IT'S ON right now!), 3PMET..I think the one at 11PM ET will be a new one (Thursday's edition).....I'm telling you, due to those last 10 minutes I could not go to sleep as tired as I was (it was 4:50AM when the 1934 Mex-US match segment began) ... Had never seen an account on television of our 1934 team (even if from a mostly a Mexican perspective), which depicted the preparation, the qualification rules, anecdotes, who scored our goals, who got expelled, what happened to our goal scorer as he came back to the States, etc.... Pretty amazing they had such detail considering this is a show mostly aimed to a Mexican audience.....Worth taping, imo....
if anyone still wants to watch, it's on again right now..... Last 10 min. (around 3:50 PM ET or so) are the best IMO.... Giving a proper context as how this rivalry historically began....
I did...Unfortunately, i only own a VCR, plus i recorded the original version (in Spanish)..... So let's better hope someone else, with more advanced stuff (like DVR) can do it for you guys.... The segment i refer to was about 5-6 minutes long, so i think i can write here sort of like a transcript.... Mind you, the transcript can't fully reflect the pictures, article clippings, nor the sense you get from both expert nor reporter....But i'll do my best....Again: hopefully someone had it on DVR or can manage to put it online, somewhere, somehow: The reporter, Enrique Ballesteros, tracks down an investigator (Fernado Mejia Barquera), who helps him go down memory lane..... What follows is a transcript, by yours truly.... sentences in italics are my comments: Host of Super Estadio: "Today we've heard about different factors that can affect the game between Mexico and the US...But there are also memories, some not very pleasant, like the ones in 1934, brought by reporter Enrique Ballesteros in his segment 'The Other Side of the Ball': Reporter (ie Ballesteros): "What happened in 1934? The US eliminated Mexico from the Italian WC, when logic would have suggested otherwise...Without looking for pretexts/excuses, Mejia has dedicated himself to investigate the victories and tragedies of Mexican soccer,and without a doubt, this game left a wound that has never yet fully healed"... Mejia: "That game, which happened on May 24th, 1934... I really do consider it the very first tragedy of Mexican futbol" Reporter:"But this tragedy had its causes: The uneveness of the qualifying system, an absurd trip, lack of knowledge of the rules, and an executioner that took his chances that afternoon to make history" that last comment refers to the US team Mejia: "1934 was the first time ever Mexico had to qualify to participate in the WC. The calendar FIFA set up favored the US greatly: Mexico played and won all three games of the series vs Cuba in March 1934. This earned Mexico the right to play the US in a one game playoff in Rome, host of the WC...Not in the US, nor in Mexico, nor through a 3-game series, as had been the case till then in qualifying" You can see in the guy's face that he might feel a bit annoyed our US players were not allowed the pleasure of having to travel to Mexico DF with WC qualification at stake THE TRIP Mejia:"First, the Mexican squad went by train to the port in Veracruz, then to Habana, Cuba, then to the port in Vigo, Spain, Southampton in England, then back to continental Europe (to a French port) before arriving to Italy....They used a small vessel called the "Orinoco", which was so small there was little to do, which caused players to lose discipline. The worst example being Rosas, who gained 6 kilos-13,14 pounds-Wonder how Mathis would have handled playing in the 1930's?- Mexico's team arrived to Italy 12 days prior to the game, but even then it was not possible for some players to fully regain their fitness". THE GAME May 24, 1934 Estadio del Partido Fascista (literally: "Fascist Party's Stadium") 15:05 hrs Mejia: "US scores first. Manuel Alonzo ties it up for Mexico. USA score the second goal just before halftime. In the second half (minute 52), Antonio Aspiri, a Necaxa defender, commits a hard challenge. The ref calls the foul and then expels Aspiri for complaining about it". Typical! Mejia continues: "From that point on, Mexico is left with 10 players. The United States then scores a third goal. Mexico cuts the lead in half through Nicho Mejia, an Atlante forward. The Mexican team afterwards presses hard to tie it up, but three minutes from time, the US scores the fourth through Aldo "Buff" Donnelly (as an aside he points Buff stood for Buffalo, due to the guy's big size and strength). Reporter: "Aldo Donnelly would also be remembered for being the head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers and Cleveland Rams of American football". Mejia: "Donnelly, it must be said, scored all four goals in that game, and went down in history for both nations: both of the "dark" history, in Mexico's case, and to the glorious pages of the history of American soccer". Reporter: "Donnelly passed away in August 9, 1994 in Fort Lauderdale, curiously enough, in the same city where the US would beat Mexico once again in 1981, 47 years after doing so in Italy. Mexico had been defeated in Rome. The return trip had not been planned until after the World Cup. Viaticums were scarce, so the team had to pay to obtain sources of income to live on". Mejia: "Afterwards they had to organize games in Switzerland, Holland, another European nation, and in Spain, where they had to sell three players to cover the team's expenses". Reporter: "Historical records have these 3 players as the first Mexicans ever to be signed abroad". Mejia: "They were the "Pirata"-pirate- Fuente, left interior forward; Manuel Alonzo, right interior forward; and Carlos Gabriaga, a defender". Reporter: "The rest of the squad returned to the port of Veracruz on July 7, 1934 and were able to rid themselves of the shame 3 years later". Mejia: " After the elimination in Rome, in September of 1937, Mexico played a three game series vs. the US, all in Mexico. Mexico won all three handily: 7-1, 7-3, 5-1, if I recall correctly". Reporter: "This is then, the first tragedy of Mexican futbol, a tragedy that deeply pierced a whole nation's memory/recollection". Host of Super Estadio: "this is how a great rivalry began, what now has become the CONCACAF 'clasico'....." I must say, Mexico owes us big: We gave them plenty of spare time so that they could travel all over Europe.... Also, thanks to us, they were able to make history and sold their first ever players to foreign clubs...More importantly, we gave them a valuable lesson on how to survive hardship, which could have only made Mexico's squad stronger: Ok, not in soccer terms (since they lost), but for each of those players' lives beyond the soccer field... US of A : Always happy to lend a hand! What we learned: We can forever claim that in the first ever game that really mattered (preliminary game to qualify for Italy), we beat Mexico 4-2 (is that translation for a 2-0 back in those past high scoring decades?).... That even back then, excuses already came in abundance from them....And that even as far back as 1937, Mexico sought consolation for losing to the US by beating us in games that did not matter (not even close) as much as the one which we happened to win three years earlier.. BTW, to clarify: by that I meant 1934, not 2002... I would never want to appear as being too mean..... BTW, last night Super Estadio had another good show....For about 50 minutes they had a panel discussion, including a couple of host, plus 4-5 soccer journalists, to discuss all the in and outs of the rivalry. The progress made by each. the virtues and weaknesses, predictions, the mental game, how US prepares and develops players, etc...... Again, if someone had a way to put it online... There will be a replay at 3PM, for those who might be able to record it in something other than my primitive VCR, so that they can share the goods......
I have SAP, so I watched Super Estadio last night instantly translated (fairly badly) into English. (I have Comcast cable, set my default language in Setup to Espanol, and my TV to SAP, and voila! I can watch GOL TV in english ... i usually switch to Spanish for goal calls). I thought the commentary, frankly, was fairly pathetic. the panel admitted they knew no American players other than Donovan (!) same old platitudes about the American mentality (to win) vs. a sometimes negative Mexican mentality, how we have players in Europe and are organized, counterattack, etc. lots of irrelevant talk about American soccer 30 years ago (1930's history is more interesting than one panelist's personal pre-NASL experiences). most panelists seemed fairly confident that Mexico played much better soccer than the U.S. and would win easily because the game was in Azteca, with one panelist with token anxiousness. very little opinion about Mexican players or Lavolpe. of course, some of that could've been the poor instant translation. The background video highlights were interesting in their irrelevance, probably based on whatever they had the rights to -- from the Dallas friendly, the '98 qualifier at Foxboro, and lots of ancient U.S. and Mexican games from '90's Gold Cups ... nice to see Preki score again in Oakland against Costa Rica, a game I saw in person. it was less enlightening than much of the debate on BigSoccer, where American fans have already concluded we're clearly superior to Mexico based on recent friendlies and the win in South Korea. (my personal opinion is much more complex -- I don't think the friendlies are that important, and it's not like we imposed our will on Mexico in South Korea or wouldn't have had trouble winning had the JOB handball been called and they converted ... but the Mexicans should fear us now, and if we can play well in Azteca that would be awesome ... frankly, Mexico looked a little better at Costa Rica last month than we did at T&T, for the most recent point of reference, and I'm concerned our recent defensive lapses will get punished this weekend ... we were totally flat in the '02 qualifier at Azteca when we could've all but eliminated Mexico from Japan/South Korea when they were slumping, but in the '98 qualifier we played quite well with 10 players, one of the best games I've ever seen the Nats play ... it's just hardly clear-cut that we're better yet, and in the end it doesn't matter that much, we'll both qualify ... but i'll gladly eat my words if we finally win in Azteca) alas, if i record to a VCR it only records in Spanish, though my DVR can go back and forth between audio tracks. but it's not worth worrying that you've missed anything earth-shattering.
Purojogo, thanks much for the transcript. That's a fascinating story I never knew a thing about. Here's my Cliffnotes version: --In 1934, Mexico and the USA needed to play a single-elimination match in Rome, Italy (the host of the World Cup) to determine who would advance to the final round of the World Cup (strange that both teams had to travel that far for one match). --It took weeks to get here, including many days on a small boat, where some of Mexico's players ate too much and got fat. --In a match that naturally included Mexico having a man ejected, the US handed them their asses 4-2. --Not expecting to lose, Mexico had not made travel arrangements until after the World Cup. --Stuck in Italy, and needing money, the Mexican team had to pimp themselves all over Europe and sell three players to support themselves. Six weeks later, they finally made it home. The reporter concludes by saying, "This is then, the first tragedy of Mexican futbol, a tragedy that deeply pierced a whole nation's memory/recollection." And the host of Super Estadio adds, "This is how a great rivalry began, what now has become the CONCACAF 'clasico'....." Shades of 2002.
Don't forget to mention the American who scored all 4 goals, Mr. Donelli.... Thank you....Your version is much more concise and to the point. I just googled Aldo Buff Donelli's name. As you can see, my spelling all along of the guy's name had been wrong. Anyway, these are some interesting things I found (click on links for more info): http://www.ussoccer.com/news/fullstory.sps?iNewsId=29066&itype=4129&icategoryid=385 90-Year Anniversary Articles: Aldo 'Buff' Donelli 3/13/03 5:55 AM " This week's installment of U.S. Soccer's ongoing 90-Year Anniversary Articles Series is a look back at one of the most prolific goal scorers in U.S. Soccer history, despite the fact he only played in two matches. But in those two matches, Aldo 'Buff' Donelli made soccer history, tallying five times. And that was just the start to his legend" ...... http://www.soccerhall.org/famers/aldo_donelli.htm Aldo Teo Donelli "Known throughout the sports world as 'Buff' because of his interest in showman "Buffalo" Bill Cody. Donelli joined the Morgan Strasser club at the age of 15 leading the local Pittsburgh area league in scoring from 1922 to 1928....." http://www.soccer-for-parents.com/us-soccer-history3.html US Soccer History Page 3 .... " On the International front, the US again made an appearance in the World Cup. Although Italy wanted to accept the USA, they had submitted their entry late, and so had to play a qualifier against the winner of the North American competition. That winner was Mexico, who had previously beat Cuba. The qualifier was played in Roma on May 24, 1934, and even though Mexico did not yet have full international standing, it was a well played game from the US point of view, a 4-2 victory that established future Hall of Fame inductee Aldo Donelli as one of the best American players of the era. The World Cup itself was a quick exit for the US who got pounded 7-1 by host Italy. Donelli scored the only US goal, but it should also be pointed out that Italy benefited from immigration rules that allowed them to field three players who had previously played for the Argentine national team. The US was thereby the only tam to play against both Luis Monti of Argentina in the 1930 World Cup and Luis Monti of Italy in the 1934 World Cup. Raimondo Orso, another Italy player, had also played for Argentina against the US in the 1928 Olympics. ...." https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93313&page=1&pp=15 (titled: "What's the story of US team in Italy 1934"?) Yes, a BS link!.... I did remember having asked about the 1934 soccer team a while ago on these boards....Other posters as I recall (plus I'm reading the thread again right now ) provided valuable details and info..... (The guy's obituary): http://www.columbia.edu/cu/record/archives/vol20/vol20_iss1/record2001.34.html
Based on how you viewed Thursday's show, and the fact that i tried (for like 5 minutes) listen to the English dub, I have to disagree...BUt i don't blame you at all ....The dubbing is indeed bad and does not completely capture exactly what was being said.... There were many interesting points brought up about the US team, which i wish i had time to enumerate here.... BUt i must say your claim about the bias is not fair...Imagine Mexican fans having to listen to Wheelock or Mr. Connelly about this same game.... They'd probably feel the same way you did, unless as a fan one could also put oneself in their position.... I am not denying there were some platitudes thrown at us or perhaps some confidence in their talk, but i also think there was some worthy insights/respect about our team... Again, judging from the dubbing. i think some of it might have been lost when you listened to it.... Those who mentioned it was preferable to have subtitles are truly onto something... But i'm afraid they are also dreaming too much....
as i noted, it could've been the dubbing on the Thursday night show. maybe it wasn't "biased" but there was nothing specific said about any current USMNT members, and I do remember the comment of one that he knew nobody other than Donovan, which hardly shows much knowledge of the U.S. team. Perhaps the obsolete video clips, and the general lack of interest in discussing the opponent, affected my judgment. it was still interesting to watch, but hardly enlightening about what will happen on Sunday.
Yes, don't want to miss Alexi jabbering about whatever... Balboa just said that he believes the U.S. is the best in CONCACAF.
As Bob Ley pointed out, it was very "mysterious" how power cut out at Ateca right after Balboa stated the USNT is now the best in CONCACAF.
Posted at GRUNT's suggestion, with pleasure: The Mexico-United States men’s soccer qualifier, for World Cup 2006, on Easter Sunday at Estadio Azteca in Mexico City will be the 50th full international game between these bitter rivals of the North-Central American region of world soccer. Remembering their first game in 1934 now recalls a strong American start in the series and a little noted but exceptional life-time achiever of American sports history. Aldo “Buff” Donelli, at center-forward for the US, was the star of that game. Beyond the modest prospects that American soccer could then offer, he also played football at Duquesne University, was later an Intercollegiate, National Football League and Major League baseball coach and finally, from 1957 to 1967, head football coach for New York’s Columbia Lions. A very able United States team, drawing on a lively and mostly ethnic based soccer landscape, participated in the inaugural, 1930 world soccer championship in Uruguay. The exploits of that US eleven, reaching the semi finals, still stand as the best US showing in international soccer. For the next, World Cup 1934 in Italy, the harsh economic realities of the times - coupled with various soccer family resentments of Uruguay and Argentina - put in doubt participation by those stand outs, as well as that of the US. In fact, the US national team did not assemble since their games in Uruguay. Perhaps as a sign of America’s steady climb out of the Depression in the spring of that year, the US Football Association (now US Soccer Federation) decided to send a late letter of intent to enter the championship just two months before its scheduled kick-off. Leniently, it was decided that, despite the fact that regional qualifiers with Haiti, Cuba and Mexico have been concluded and Mexico was ticketed for Italy, there would be a final play-off game between Mexico and the US. Rome, a rather peculiar location for two teams from the Americas, was chosen as the site of the game. Clearly, the organizers symbolically gave both countries the feeling that they made it to the world championships even if only one would advance to the actual final round. Elmer A. Schroeder, President of the USFA, a Philadelphia lawyer and the first American born head of the US soccer administration, assisted by coach David Gould who learned the sport in Scotland and also coached the University of Pennsylvania, assembled the best American professional and semi-professional talent available. They came from teams such as the Pawtucket Rangers, Baltimore Canton, Philadelphia German-Americans, Brooklyn Celtic, New York Americans, Cleveland Slavia, Chicago Wonder Bolts and the St. Louis Stix, Baer & Fuller. There was one exception. At team star Billy Gonsalves’ insistence, Schroeder invited young Aldo Donelli, an amateur club player, to the US training camp in Philadelphia. Donelli, just “Buff” to nearly everyone due to his infatuation with Buffalo Bill, drove hard in scrimmages and proved to be the most able goal scoring forward on the extended squad. While there was grumbling from the polished veteran players about the “rough coal miner” - Donelli learned his soccer at a club of British and Irish immigrant miners in Morgan, Pennsylvania - he was selected and was on his way sailing to Naples proudly sporting his dashing travel uniform: spectator shoes, white linen pants and a navy blazer. On the 5th of May, the US delegation left behind a Manhattan listening on the radio to the comedy of Jimmy Durante, Rin Tin Tin sketches and Walter Winchel gossip. At the movies; Gable, Colbert, Hepburn and Johnny Weissmuller headlined, the Ziegfeld Follies with Fannie Brice and George Jessel, with “forty glorious girls”, amused on Broadway. An audience with Pope Pius and host Premier Mussolini, as the New York Times put it, awaited them in Italy. The Americans were given the Eternal City’s first division Roma club’s training facilities at Testaccio to prepare. The locals were astounded when the visitors played baseball on their first day of practice. The following day, it was strictly soccer, the Europeans were now impressed, most of all with the Yank’s ball heading skills. “Buff” Donelli continued in good form, he scored in scrimmage against Roma and US reserves and was picked as the US center-forward to start. The position then and now demands delivery of goals, left or right footed, headed, powered into the net or deftly placed with finesse. Donelli did not disappoint. On the 24th of May, the US eleven took the field, with Benito Mussolini, US Ambassador Long and 10,000 spectators in attendance in a match up against their neighbor, Mexico. As the game unfolded it was quickly evident that the Mexican players were skilled and smooth when managing the ball, but were no match for the Americans’ speed and athleticism. In the 17th minute, Donelli powered his way past two defenders chasing down a long lead pass by Ed Czerkiewicz and placed his shot out of the reach of the out-rushing goalkeeper, Rafael Navarro. Mexico tied the score a few minutes later but then Donelli, virtually unmarked, converted a Willie McLean pass for a 2:1 lead. Donelli was pulled down as he was about to break open again and the Mexican player was ejected for the infraction. With Mexico a man short, the US was able to capitalize when Donelli scored his third with a powerful, unexpected shot. Although Dionisio Mehija brought Mexico to 3:2, undaunted, Donelli scored his and the US’s fourth in the 87th minute to qualify for the Round of Sixteen. Three days later, on May 27th in front of 30,000 spectators at the same “Stadium of the National Fascist Party” the challenge was to overcome host Italy in a knock-out game. It was not be. Donelli did drive home a loose ball to score, but the US was already down by three goals. The Yank’s second World Cup journey was ended by an emphatic Italian victory. A South American newspaper ran this sarcastic headline: “Eight Italian Goals; Italy-USA 7:1”. Aldo Donelli and Billy Gonsalves - the pride of Fall River, Massachusetts and one of the greatest players America has ever produced - both received impressive offers from Italian clubs. Lazio of Rome was particularly keen on Donelli and floated a $5,000 contract, an impressive sum in 1934. Possibly leery of the political climate or just simply not wanting to leave the US soccer family, both players turned down the offers. The US team continued on in Europe with an exhibition tour of Germany playing four provincial clubs and Italy went on to win their first World Cup. The US did not play a full international game again until 1937. Donelli eventually chose football as his career sport and played competitive soccer only sporadically. He died in Florida at the age of 87 in 1994. That was eight years before the coach Bruce Arena led US team reached the quarter-finals of the 2002 World Cup in Korea/Japan by defeating old nemesis Mexico in a memorable game, 2:0. Perhaps Aldo “Buff”, the “Buffer”, Donelli saw that game, from heaven, and will be tuning in again. _________________________________________________________________ Sources: Colin Jose, The United States and World Cup Soccer Competition: An Encyclopedic History of the United States in International Competition, Scarecrow Press, Metuchen, N.J. / 1994 Tony Cirino, U.S. Soccer vs. The World, Damon Press, Leonia, N.J. / 1983 The New York Times, April-May-June 1934 The US Soccer History Archives / www.sover.net National Soccer Hall of Fame and Museum, website Research Library Mexican Soccer Federation / www.femexfut.org.mx www.fifaworldcup.yahoo.com Obituary / Aldo T. "Buff" Donelli, 87, Columbia University Record, September 9, 1994
CAn't believe that, exactly a year to the last post on this thread.. i bump it in memory of Mr. Harker....RIP and thank you for being among the first to get the ball rolling for the USMNT, so to speak.... ................................................................................................... Harker, last surviving U.S. player of '34 World Cup, dies Associated Press ONEONTA, N.Y. -- Albert Harker, the last surviving member of the 1934 U.S. World Cup team, has died, the U.S. Soccer Hall of Fame said Tuesday. He was 95. Harker, who died Monday at a nursing home in Camp Hill, Pa., was the oldest living member of the U.S. Hall of Fame. He was a defender on the 1934 team that defeated Mexico in Rome in a qualification match. The Americans then lost to eventual champion Italy in the first round. As a left back for the Philadelphia German-Americans, Harker won the 1933 and 1934 U.S. Amateur Cup titles and the 1936 U.S. Open Cup. He also won four American Soccer League titles with Philadelphia and was chosen for the 1936 U.S. Olympic team, but couldn't afford to take eight weeks off to compete. Harker was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 1979. ..................................................................................................... I guess the US is more short-handed at LB than it was last week.... Once again, RIP....