Required reading for Quakes fans

Discussion in 'San Jose Earthquakes' started by scotto, Nov 7, 2002.

  1. scotto

    scotto Member

    Feb 13, 2001
    Bonny Doon, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  2. Quaker

    Quaker Member+

    FC Dallas
    Apr 19, 2000
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, that's a pretty good summary of our season. Insightful and accurate, I'd say. Definitely worth a read.

    Somewhat noteworthy expections by Yallop:

    - Graziani will be gone next year due to salary cap issues.
    - Additional guys may have to go depending on Donovan's final cost.
    - Barrett and probably Cannon want to stay and will be back next year.
    - Agoos may have seen his last appearance for the National Team.
     
  3. bsman

    bsman Member+

    May 30, 2001
    MadCity
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Anybody else find it interesting that "Sir Amarillo", Jimmy Conrad was not mentioned at all?
     
  4. Albany58

    Albany58 Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    Concord, CA USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is the part that bothered me most:

    "Perhaps of more concern is the condition of Agoos, who just over a year ago was one of the very best defenders in the league. In fact, at the midpoint of last season, Agoos, who would go on to capture MLS Defender of the Year honors, was considered a viable MVP candidate. However, a hip injury suffered in a collision with Miami forward Diego Serna slowed Agoos considerably and he has not been able to consistently recapture that dominant form since."

    So we see that the injury suffered by Agoos via our friend Diego on 4 July 2001 was a lot worse than thought. And to think that there were people on this board saying that Jeff faked and/or embellished it. Shame on your asses! :mad:
     
  5. QuakeAttack

    QuakeAttack Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    California - Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Down boy! Going back in the Time Machine Mr. Sherman, your friend Serna pulls Jeff from behind and Jeff proceeds to drop like he has been shot. Jeff lands awkwardly and hurts himself.

    Shame on me! May be Jeff would have hurt himself even if he hadn't embellished it, but if you had watched Jeff with the National Team and at DC United, he had refined the fine art of being "fouled" in the couple of years prior to coming to the Quakes.

    There is no doubt in my mind that he embellished the foul.
     
  6. porkrind

    porkrind Member+

    Quakes
    United States
    Sep 27, 2001
    Bostonia
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I was sitting right in front of it. There's no way you can embellish an elbow in the square of the back and being dragged to the ground. There were actually 2 cardable offenses - 1. the elbow and then 2. the subsequent dragging of Agoos by Serna.

    If that was embellishment, then give that man an Oscar, because it was the best damn acting job in the history of football, hands down - and after the world cup, I think I've seen it all.
     
  7. scotto

    scotto Member

    Feb 13, 2001
    Bonny Doon, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree. It looked like a Judo throw from my vantage point.
     
  8. living_ded_boy

    living_ded_boy New Member

    May 24, 2001
    Pleasanton, Ca


    You would think with what little MLS pays Donovan(200k?), he would be willing to sacrifice some salary to keep a guy like Graziani or someone of his level in SJ. If Graz goes, it's gonna suck to be Donovan.....DeRo or Barclay will never draw a double team. Defenses will focus on the Golden One more-so than ever.
     
  9. Albany58

    Albany58 Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    Concord, CA USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sorry Mr. Quake Crazy, I stand by what I say. It was on the east side of the field and happened about ten to fifteen yards in front of me. I concur with scotto and porkrind.
     
  10. Defender

    Defender Member

    Joe's Plumbing 86ers
    Feb 16, 2001
    San Francisco CA
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is definitely going to be an interesting offseason.
     
  11. scotto

    scotto Member

    Feb 13, 2001
    Bonny Doon, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It will be indeed. Read the latest article by Jeff Bradley on MLSNet for an interesting take on it all. It's at:
    http://www.mlsnet.com/content/02/spot1107bradley.html

    Among other things, he speculates the dismantling of Chicago and DC -- Chicago for salary cap reasons and DC for Hudson reasons. He says:

    Already, the Washington Post is reporting that D.C. could be moving Marco Etcheverry or Jaime Moreno, or both. Chicago GM Peter Wilt has said he'll be moving more than one high-salaried player, and the speculation is it will be either Josh Wolff or Ante Razov.

    In the case of D.C. United, coach Ray Hudson wants to completely re-build a team that's missed the playoffs three straight years. And he wants to do it his way, the same way he built the Fusion, on his own terms. He tried to coach the team he inherited for one season. Now, you can bet that Hudson will be coaching a team that he's selected.

    Chicago is paying the price for having too many quality American players on one roster. In their five years of existence, the Fire have watched a list of players, from Chris Armas, C.J. Brown and Zach Thornton to Gutierrez, Carlos Bocanegra, DaMarcus Beasley, Wolff and Razov go from minimum (or near minimum) salaries to the upper echelon. As the cap has stayed pretty much the same, obviously, it's impossible for the Fire to remain intact. So Sarachan's first order of business is going to be to decide who stays.

    As teams like United and the Fire unload, look for just about every other team in the league to get involved in trade discussions. But, as I said before, don't try to deduce things logically, or equitably. Don't say, "Well, Josh Wolff for Clint Mathis sounds good." Because, the Fire cannot trade money for money. Take a look at which teams hold allocations (obviously, United and the MetroStars hold them for missing the playoffs this season), and which teams have high or multiple draft picks. Also, look at which teams have enticing Project 40 players who do not count against the roster.


    This brings up some interesting possibilities for the Quakes. If Graziani is gone, can the Quakes make a move to get either Razov or Wolff? Clearly, as Bradley states, that can't trade money for money. Chicago will need to clear cap room. As such, a Barclay plus draft picks for Wolff or Razov trade is not beyond the realm of possibility. Gutierrez or Bocanegra would be interesting possibilities as well, although Gutierrez plays Barrett's spot and we already have the best in the league at that position. CJ Brown may also be an obvious choice given his Bay area roots. He would be a big upgrade for Jimmy Conrad at right back. There's no way they give up DMB or Armas. Armas we don't need, but DMB would be sweet. There's just no way Chicago let's that happen. He's clearly their most important/marketable young star.

    I can't see wanting anyone from DC that they would be willing to unload. I'd take Pope in a heartbeat, but there's no way they give him up. Reyes is a possibility perhaps, and if Graz is gone, an SI spot is available. I don't see Etch or Moreno fitting into the Quakes from either a tactical or salary standpoint.

    In any case, it sure will be interesting!

    - Scott
     
  12. due time

    due time Member+

    Mar 1, 1999
    Santa Clara
    With FY basically saying he can't afford Graz, how is he going to afford Wolff? Wolff & Donovon up top would be sweet, but I doubt Wolff makes significantly less than Graz, do you?

    Razov they can keep.

    If you ask me, the most likely path for FY to ease up on the salary front is to......cut or trade Goos. He must make near the max being a former national teamer and outstanding MLS performer for many years. If FY does that, then maybe he can afford a Wolff or Reyes.

    So how bout this line-up:

    Cannon
    Waibel Dayak Robinson Barrett
    Barclay Ekelund Mulrooney Corrales
    Donovon Wolff
     
  13. doppelganger

    doppelganger Member

    Jul 6, 2001
    santa cruz, ca
    Wolff resigned with MLS longterm just before Japorea....

    I would assume it was close or over the "league max"....
     
  14. scotto

    scotto Member

    Feb 13, 2001
    Bonny Doon, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're right. From a cap standpoint, it doesn't really help us. There's a thread on the Fire boards speculating who will be gone in their "Fire Sale". The thread is at:
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=22432

    Here's speculation from Mike Segroves on the salaries. Note that this was written prior to placing players on waivers.

    Salary Max or Near Max Contracts

    Peter Nowak
    Josh Wolff
    Ante Razov

    $100-200K Contracts

    DaMarcus Beasley
    Chris Armas
    Carlos Bocanegra
    Jesse Marsch (out of contract?)
    Dema Kovalenko
    Zach Thornton

    Under $100K

    CJ Brown
    Jim Curtin
    Rodrigo Faria
    Evan Whitfield
    Dipsy Selowane
    Kelly Gray
    Jason Moore
    Henry Ring
    Sergi Daniv (out of contract?)
    Orlando Perez


    Unlikely to Return-

    Hristo Stoitchkov (salary vs. production-only returns at massive slary cut)
    David Vauderil (retiring)
    Billy Walsh (younger players reaching his level)


    So it looks like if we take into account team needs, salary cap, local connections, etc., CJ Brown may be the most likely candidate to end up in San Jose. I'd love to see Kelly Gray in San Jose, but I suspect he makes a lot less, has a bigger upside potential, and therefore would have no reason to be traded by Chicago.
     
  15. IBleedTeal

    IBleedTeal Member+

    Jun 2, 2001
    Yves Fiat
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Right now, let me just say:

    It sucks to be a 'Quakes fan

    How the hell do we expect to content with Craig Waibel starting?!

    Im still not sold ERob can handle a full-time starting spot. Numerous times last season Yallop had to take him out because if he stayed in, he would have drawn red for certain.

    If Graz leaves, were screwed. Wolff won't solve it, and theres pretty much no way we are getting him. To get something, you have to give something, and the 'Quakes really dont have anyone to "give" right now. Cutting Agoos is out of the question. You dont cut your captain.

    Donovan leaving would be the best for the team. Salary Cap room, Graziani staying, and no more ego. Dont give me the ************************ of the fans. If we put a good product onto the field consistantly, and not a whining diver who occasionaly scores, then they'll come back. 20,000 people dont go to Sharks games to ga-ga over the players. Losing scarred our attendance, winning (Yes, more than one or two seasons) will get it back.

    P.S- #10 leaving would also mean there are more underage girls for Albany to drool over during games, so whatever his comment about this post is, isn't valid.
     
  16. Quaker

    Quaker Member+

    FC Dallas
    Apr 19, 2000
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If it comes down to Graziani or Donovan, I'll take Donovan every day of the week and twice on Saturdays. Graziani's best years are behind him while Donovan will only improve--and I think Donovan's already better than Graz!

    Also, I can't see us cutting Agoos. He's the team leader, and don't count out his ability to return to his 2001 form. A bit of time off to heal and regain his confidence, and I bet we'll see some good performances out of the guy. Just because he's not in the picture for the 2006 World Cup doesn't mean he can't contribute to the Quakes for a couple more years. He will continue to groom younger guys like Eddie Robinson.
     
  17. Crazy_Quakes_Fan

    Crazy_Quakes_Fan New Member

    Jul 23, 2002
    San Mateo, CA
    "...not a whining diver who occasionaly scores"

    What were you saying about Graziani?

    I'm sorry, I can admit that Donovan did alot of whining and diving at the end of the season, but let's just think about something: He's 20 years old, and thought he was on top of the world; Graziani is 31 and not nearly playing at the form he was once capable of. Donovan can and will get over those terrible performances of last year and that swelling ego. Graziani's been diving and whining far longer. Let's not forget that Graziani's performance really started to fade at the end of last season (much like Ekelund.)

    While once believing it good for Agoos to go, I wouldn't mind him staying now, but it looks most likely if one of the veterans was to go from the back line it'd be Dayak, purely for injury reasons. BTW, Waibel is not the answer. He'll be a fine substitute, but we need a right back...desperately. (We also must, must get a young forward...it's absolutely essential to the future of this team.)
     
  18. IBleedTeal

    IBleedTeal Member+

    Jun 2, 2001
    Yves Fiat
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    If Donovan really cared about the "team" and San Jose, why not play for a near league-minimum. He is making tons of money from Nike, and in two years, he would be makin the big bucks in Germany anyway.
     
  19. Crazy_Quakes_Fan

    Crazy_Quakes_Fan New Member

    Jul 23, 2002
    San Mateo, CA
    If you could make the extra money, would you?
     
  20. sj_quakes_fan

    sj_quakes_fan Member

    May 18, 2001
    San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    First of all, because he's worth all the money he gets and more. And, second, like CQF said, if you can make it then take it! There's not a person in this world who will give money back to their employer. That's not how business works.

    Landon has worked hard to get where he's at. It's not easy doing what he does and being who he is. He deserves all he has. Which, in the grand picture, is not much at all. It's not like he's living in a mansion driving a Bentley. Landon is worth the league maximum and then some and every penny he gets from whatever endorsements he may do.
     
  21. Albany58

    Albany58 Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    Concord, CA USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't have to comment, others have now done it for me. :p
     
  22. due time

    due time Member+

    Mar 1, 1999
    Santa Clara
    I don't know why I'm choosing to debate you IBT, next thing you know you'll be accusing me of learing at little girls too.

    Anyway, here goes.
    1. Cutting Agoos is out of the question.
    See Rice, Jerry. When you have a salary cap, expensive players are ALWAYS considered.
    2. To get something you have to give something.
    Again, you're missing the effects of salary caps. The Fire are FORCED to hold a yard sale. Sometimes you can pick up bargains.
    3. Wolff won't solve it.
    I'd take Wolff over Graz any day with the one worry that he may be injury prone.
    4. If Graz leaves we are screwed.
    This team can easily get along without him. Apparantly you weren't watching when the Quakes won the cup with essentially the same team as this year, but WITHOUT Graz.
     
  23. Richter Boy

    Richter Boy New Member

    Mar 1, 2000
    Soulard, STL
    Serna did not even foul Goos. Jeff is a ***************.
     
  24. living_ded_boy

    living_ded_boy New Member

    May 24, 2001
    Pleasanton, Ca


    I agree with everything but this.....we won last year without Graz because the league was weaker. Getting Graz only helped us to keep pace with the league. I'd hate to see where we would have been without Graz this season. With Cerritos up front, i'm bettin we'd have been toying with a DC and Metroish record. When Graz went cold toward the end of the season......so did the Quakes. If we lose Graz, we'd better get an attacker with as much impact as him, and as durable.
     
  25. Toffees_rule

    Toffees_rule New Member

    Feb 11, 2000
    SFSU
    I'm sorry, but Wolff is on his way to Metroland to team up with Mathis, I don't think it will happen any other way...Bradley is too shrewd and knows the Chicago situation too well not to get one of his favourite players
     

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