Removal of jersey

I'll take this hypothetical one further.
We were mock discussing this at a game last week because our team was required to wear yellow pennies because of a color conflict.
What would you do if a player removed the penny, but not the shirt underneath?

 

Its not a Scottish thing, FIFA actually put a good paper out on this showing pictures of what was allowed and not allowed.

As for pennies, not sure officially since those probably aren't allowed "officially" as they are not part of the uniform.

 

More likely to occur (pennies) in rec games. We just opened up inter-league rec play in GA recently. As a result, some of the rec teams show up with same color jerseys and we've had to make due with what we had. The point is to play the game afterall.

If he pulled up his jersey, jump all over it. Penny over the jersey, wouldn't bother with it much. Might tell him not to do that.

 

That little ankle-biter isn't going to take off a penny to celebrate a goal, because it took 20 minutes to untangle it and put it on in the first place.

 

OK, next question. How about the player who takes off his jersey after scoring the winning goal during kicks from the mark to settle a tied game? If you look around, half the players of both teams are now taking thier shirts off.

 

Recently FIFA and/or the USSF stated that cards cannot be given after the conclusion of the match. Therefore the most you could do is send in a game report. Personally, unless they were being obnoxious about it, I wouldn't bother.

 

First off, I want to say I'm not having a go at you personally - the majority of referees seem to share that attitude.

But, it is because of attitudes like that that many players seem to think they can say whatever they like to the referee after the whistle's gone - because most referees seem to think that unless its pretty severe there's no point sending in a report. Maybe it's because they think they're 'dobbing' or 'making a mountain out of a molehill'
(admittedly, I'm as guilty of this as the next referee, although i'm starting to consider that i don't see why we should have to put up with that garbage and i might actually start doing something about it next season)

 

Re: After the Game

No offense taken...or hopefully given!

But there is a big difference between playerws removing their shirts after the game (assuming not done in a taunting way) and players mouthing off. If someone said something to me after the game that would warrant a send-off during the game, I would certainly report it and specify that the conduct would have deserved a red card. Hopefully the league officials would take the hint and consider a suspension and/or other sanction. So I absolutely agree with you that just because you can't give a card anymore doesn't mean you should ignore the conduct. Any ref who does ignore conduct like that is effectively encouraging bad behavior against other referees.

Personally, I feel that FIFA's action this year eliminating the power to award cards in the immediate aftermath of the game was a mistake. Bad things can happen after the last whistle and the referee should have the authority to deal with it. For example, our local league guidelines for officials states that the officials should watch over the team handshakes after the game to ensure that nothing improper happens. But we have been stripped of our normal authority to deal with any bad behavior! I understand that FIFA may want to have a clear line as to when authority to issue cards ends. But the line has been obtained at the cost of a big portion of the ref's ability to supervise what can be the most dangerous period of time - the immediate post game. Was there really a big problem with referees abusing the old post game power?

 

I think I'm missing something in this discussion. True, we have been recently instructed that cards are not to be shown after the conclusion of the game. But that doesn't mean that misconduct that happens is allowed to go unreported. If you mark cards given in the game on an official game sheet to the league, you include any misconduct that happens after the final whistle. (And write up the details in the proscribed manner for your league - some have a separate report, others want it written on the back of the game sheet.) You should also inform the player and/or coach that there has been misconduct recorded, so they are not blindsided. If league policy is to keep the passcard and mail it with your report, you do so (unless the misconduct occurs after you have already returned the cards, in which case you note that fact in your report).

There is a limited timeframe for this - it's the period of time in which teams and refs are leaving the field and surrounds. If a player comes up to cuss you out in the parking lot or while you're preparing for your next game, that's too late to include it in the previous game's report. You report the incident separately.

 

Everything you say is absolutely right. And maybe I am overreacting, but it seems to me that a card is an immediate sanction and has specific consequences normally spelled out in the league by-laws, while a "report" is a delayed sanction that only has consequences if the referee actually writes something and the league then follows up with hearings and whatever they do. All of which may give the bad actor the chance to escape the consequences that would have attached to a card. Therefore it seems to me that the threat of a card is a bigger deterent to bad conduct than the threat of a report.

Admittedly this is all hypothetical, as I have not had any problems post game this year!!!

 

Here's a question for you tho.

The game ends on the PK. The goal scorer takes his jersey off, and hands it to the opponent, who trades the jersey. This is a common practice in soccer, tho not often at the lower level.

Do you send in a game report stating that both teams traded jerseys at the end and that you think they should be assessed caution points?

Nah. Unless it's outlandish, there's no need to turn it in.. we're here to keep players safe, keep them having fun, and uphold the spirit of the LOTG. We're not here to look for reasons to pull cards when none exist.


RedcardLeopard

 

You've overgeneralised my argument.

I wasn't talking about that.

I was only making reference to the common instances of dissent after teh whistle is blown - players seem to think they can get away with saying what they like after the whistle, and the fact that most referees only report the very worst cases only serves to perpetuate this. But really, why should we have to put up with that garbage?

That was the essence of my argument, nothing about the technical cautionable offences.

 

I would suggest that as the "penny" is only being worn due to a colour clash, then it is being worn in lieu of a change of shirt colour being present, so therefore it represents a new shirt. Treat it as if it were a real shirt. The intention is there to remove the garment. Also, as I am sure in most other places, the lifting of the shirt over the head is deemed the same as the removal of the shirt, here in England.

 

It is funny you should say this, as I have just finished writing a supplemental report for one of my weekend games in which this very subject arose. I "cautioned" someone for persistent and abusive dissent after the game, and told her it would be in a full report to the league authorities. Two and a half minutes of verbal barrage after I've already said enough is unacceptable. I for one weary of the attitude that referees are there to be chastised after a match--especially by a team that wins 3-nil. But I'm sure I'll be the only referee this season to file such a report in the league. Other refs will simply refuse to do their matches.

I believe in pulling a weed by the roots. Get rid of the obnoxious players and obnoxious teams, and restore fair play and competition. This can only benefit the league, and the sport as a whole. Unfortunately the only power we have now is in filing a report, and praying that the league officials are actually sympathetic--or even care. A card would be nice, but then--I could always take the player's player card and send it in with the report, which would FORCE the league to do something about it. If only that were our practice, I'd feel like things mattered. As it stands, I don't feel that at all.