I just want you to commit to something so you don’t move the goal posts. You’ve shown time and time again that you don’t like Wes and hold him to a different standard than any other player. I want know what it would take for him. It’s not a hard a question. The majority of what we do on here is speculation. Don’t see why you have such a hard time speculating on what he would need to do at his new club to convince you. We can leave it there tho if you want.
Who gives a crap if Wes plays several different roles for Juve? If he is consistently getting minutes that says guys who know way more about the game than most of us on here believe in his abilities.
I think expecting or hoping for 15+ goals from Sargent this year is borderline nuts. The team's top two scorers last year combined for 12 goals. The teams next 3 (I believe) combined for 12. Expecting 15+ from a team that was so god awful at generating chances and finishing them just strikes me as borderline insane which is why this is so hard. How do you evaluate Sargent's progress in a situation that dire? Werder's attack was effectively neutered the vast bulk of the year and rarely troubled anyone. When you're top goal scorers, your medal stand so to speak, score 7, 5 and 4 goals apiece that's pretty awful, and makes it difficult to figure out what and who is to blame and how much player responsibility is involved.
While I wouldn't disagree w/you, I can still see the counter argument. Until the fall of '19, Reyna was basically a prospect, and a prospect considered to have a high ceiling but also a sketchy potential floor (whats his position? Ball hog, doesn't integrate well w/his teammates in terms of passing etc) due to a lot of potential flaws. Then literally every box that could get checked, seemed to get checked in '19-'20: Does he have a position? He has tons of positions he can play. Is he a chucker/ball hog? Hell no, look at him gifting goals to Haaland on a silver platter with picture perfect passes in the Champions League Round of 16 with everything on the line. Can he play well with teammates, find the game, but also play others into the game? As previously mentioned his games with Dortmund's youth side and the big club were littered with gorgeous passes, and lovely runs, and goals. He did everything. In all the ways that '19-'20 was a dream come true for him, Bremen's been a let down for Sargent. After starting at multiple youth World Cups and even playing up a cycle and starring at that one, he produced, and was excellent for the youth teams, he then spent '19-'20 for the big boys two plus years after his star arrived and it went over like "a fart in church" as the line goes. Didn't seem to play with the same decisiveness, or confidence, disappeared in games, lost some of that killer instinct, and in general just looked nothing like he did in the spring and summer and fall of 2017. What happened? Well, it seems like the opposite side of the Reyna coin in every way. Reyna's one youth world cup was a total disaster, but he landed on a picture perfect team to develop with, and is surrounded by superlative talent and a seeming assembly line of elite prospects to great pro's system. Sargent was the opposite, starring in a youth world cup, then landing with a falling club that's basically a ----- show right now. The issue I have is if you switch their clubs, how different are the resutls? I imagine that while Sargent would be unlikely to have the highs of Reyna with Dortmund, he'd certainly be closer to his potential while Reyna would probably be a disaster on a team as much as mess as Bremen is. Again, their leader in goal scoring had 7 goals, I think Reyna scored 7 before freaking halloween last fall. How much of this isn't about Sargent? The scary answer to me is probably a lot. Strikers work on confidence as much as anything and when you aren't getting fed the ball consistently, you lose confidence, when your chances are sporadic at best, it can poison your game up and make you tenative in the box because when the hell next are you gonna have a chance BETTER FINISH IT. For someone w/anxiety like me, playing on teams like Sargent, Jozy and Wood did in Europe just seem like recipes to destroy a strikers confidence and instincts. I fear that regardless of Sargent's promotion into the starting lineup, a staff and an attack that was so thoroughly neutered a year ago w/few notable if any changes for the good, probably isn't going to produce much of anything this year either. Why would they? What's changed? I look through the roster and I am not sure if I see any differences in the midfield/forward. I like Rashica, but he's the only difference maker to me, the rest of them are middling or worse, and as a result, Sargent could be elevated, have trust, and still top off at 8 goals, that would've lead the team last year after all and the team doesn't strike me as likely to be much better. So why should Reyna be a lock? Just because he smartly signed with a better club, and Josh is stuck on a dumpster fire? Sure Reyna's producing, but it's not like Bremen is rolling out attacking teammates for Sargent that are even 1/3 the player Haaland is. How is he supposed to impress us in that situation? Maybe he can pad his stats w/penalties, but beyond that, I don't see how he suddenly pours in assists and goals by the dozen considering the disparity in talent, and if the #'s don't show up, how do we decide if Sargent is impressing or not? For some it will be the quality of his play, even if the end product isn't there, or the raw stats aren't there, for others it's scoreboard or nothing, and then worst of all, does he lose confidence playing in that ---- show? Probably. My concern w/the club pedigree argument, and the good fortune and quality play we've seen from Reyna versus the muck and mire reality of Sargent's situation is a ton of it could be the randomness inherent in where a player is playing rather than their actual quality. I don't like to make enormous changes to my evaluations based on small sample size, and I tend to view the current situation as Reyna playing with confidence and with a fantastic organization and Sargent struggling with confidence in a disaster situation that is unlikely to improve, and in both those cases, the key ingredients are confidence and situation, rather than talent. So personally, I'd bring them both in. I've got a feeling that Sargent spending a few weeks at the tip of the spear in an attack featuring guys like Pulisic, Reyna, Weah, Llanez, Ledezma, Morris, and behind them McKennie and Adams, and to the back left and right Robinson, and Dest, will be feasting and loving life, and then googling therapists and life coaches the day he has to get back on a plane and fly back to Bremen.
Bitter quiet forgotten truth: it's hard to imagine we miss WC '18 if Morris doesn't go down injured a month after the Gold Cup. With him (and JAB not getting hurt) we probably win one or both of those horror show defeats down the stretch, who knows, maybe would've even got 3 out of Honduras. That Morris injury really came home to roost in particular against T&T where everyone seemed sluggish and out of it, T&T wouldn't have been nearly so confidence launching those forays into our side of the field if Morris was prowling around outside their box just waiting for a perfect ball that he could cut in on. Regardless, Morris just seems like a guy in the 23-30, period for a while. Also pretty cool to note that he isn't even 26 yet, could still grow a bit as a player, and still has plenty of his prime left to work with. One of the few brights spots of the 1990-1995 drought, but for Klinsy and not the fed (since it seems like the Fed never noticed him in the first place).
I just cannot stand those excuses. Yes, many are true, but I've heard them so many times, starting with Brucie and Sunil a minute after the game ended. This isn't like we just missed out on the WC semifinals. We finished behind Panama and Honduras. 5th out of 6 teams. In the worst qualifying region in the world. Even if they had qualified, then what? All is well? No, it was a sh!tshow all around, and a couple results here or there doesn't change the fact that everything needed a complete revamp. Instead, we're still calling up Bradley 3 years later when he can hardly move. I don't think you necessarily disagree, it has just always bothered me. The big ole USSF defenders here somehow thinking it wasn't too bad cuz we NEARLY got there. Against T&T's C team. Moving on - agree on Morris. Maybe it's how "chesty"/top heavy he is or seems, but he always seems like a bull in a china shop the way he moves about the pitch. Which is a compliment. Always room for those types, especially when accompanied by a bit of skill. I've said it before, but it's hard to argue against his choice to stay in MLS, and forego the offers from Germany. Without considering the money (a topic I don't care about as a US fan), he has developed nicely, to a top end player for our team. Wonder why we never hear about transfers for him? I would think now would be a great time to test himself in the EPL or Germany. Maybe he's making too much now, or he's comfortable? I would love to see how he could perform for a few peak years in a top league, but maybe it's just not in the cards.
of course bring both. there''s room for both for sure. the question of absolute quality vs "subjective" quality is a good but difficult question to answer - a question that doesn't get asked enough, either, in my opinion. "the game" of getting onto big teams only partially has to do with skill/talent/quality in the absolute sense. some play it better than others ...some are luckier than others at it...but you are totally right. 100%. if you put Jozy on dortmund instead of sunderland...im convinced his career would have turned out much much different. however, if you're gonna start trying to rate players independent of the status of the club they are on and how well/lucky they have been in the "club musical chairs" game....it's a whole lot more complicated than just going off of who is on the best club like almost everyone seems to do. the best are indeed generally at the best clubs...but its not always true and its definitely not true that players who dont get a chance on an elite club couldnt be just as good or better than those who do and vice versa for the players on good clubs who would do poorly on bad clubs. why should reyna be a lock...b/c alsmot no players in USA history can do what he has done even in a small sample size at the level of competition that he has. i think back to games like the copa america 4-0 thrashing argentina put on the usa...the absolute utter embarrassment that was....and the lack of ability on the ball that the usa displayed in that game....which made it painfully clear that so few of the players on the field that day and generally in the us pool can hack it at the very top level of the sport. so when shows he can...he becomes an auto-lock. now, if he comes in and doesnt play well...things could change....but doing what he is doing at dortmund and the way he is doing it is unprecedented for his age and almost unprecedented regardless of age in the us pool. there have been few uncapped players who could ever be more of a lock than he is. overall, though, you are totally right. that's why a manager of a national team MUST be GREAT at evaluting talent - or delegate to someone who is - it can make a world over difference in terms of how well a pool develops and progresses. the smart manager who plucks good players out of bad situations can often get those players into much higher level clubs.....which is needed. instead, our current team seems to be doubling down on the "lockerroom buddy" types to complement the players who are already on good teams. big mistake. i think there are plenty of players who could be elevated by usmnt involvement the yedlin was....that should be a big goal of national team play especially early in a cycle.
Running past a high line isn’t creating for yourself? There are attackers who are faster than Morris. There are attackers who are stronger than Morris. But there are very, very few on the entire planet who are both. He is a specimen. Combine that with a class right foot and high soccer IQ (he played oddly earlier in his career because he couldn’t/refused to utilize his left almost anywhere on the pitch, but he’s largely left this in the past) and you have a player who is significantly better than the league he plays in. It didn’t stop Besler from being a good international. Same for Donovan. I think Weah has a higher upside but that’s all he is at this point. I think his ceiling is very high, but I don’t think he’s demonstrated that he’s better than Morris in the present. Llanez is going to disappoint you. I love his confidence but he’s far less athletic and far less technical than his popular reputation on BS. Might be an occasional B-teamer but nothing more.
I must have written that post wrong. The point was that IF Sargent scored 15 goals next year, we would stop talking about who the #1 striker is. I think he will get games and he might get more chances this year. But I could also see WB getting relegated as they are very insular in the front office and the coach has been found out by the league.
We all carry pet peeves and can be triggered by ---- and jump all over the place over nothing. I'm not suggesting it, you don't have the time to read the endless litany of bitchy screeds I've written tearing to pieces the Fed over the "Abomination at Couva", but I will say that if you checked my posts, on anything related to the failure to qualify for WC '18 I've essentially napalmed the living ---- out of the Fed, the coaches, many but not all of the veterans, the horrible drought of '90-'95, the idiocy of failing to fire Klinsy because someone who straight up doesn't effing matter and never did (beyond the ridiculous outsized influence the guy had for no apparent reason other than corruption and self-dealing within the fed) had a doctor's appointment (hyperbole I know) one can go on and on (my J'accuse would be directed at the Fed though). Trust me, I view the failure as rot to the core of the system, and I would metaphorically put them all against the wall to paraphrase Radiohead. However, because our confederation has been straight trash forever, we could play like horse manure for years, slip on a banana peel against T&T's experimental rec team in the finale, and still require a ball to bounce off the crossbar and again off the back of the head of Memo and into his own net AND for an insane Ghost goal, AND late on legit goal off horrific defending by Costa Rica for us to lose and fail to qualify. Our play (I'm learning!) was collective straight trash for the bulk of qualifying, especially on the road, but also at home against the patsies, and we still needed a glorified T&T domestic club team to score a wonder goal, and have an own goal go in, plus the ball off Memo's head, plus a ghost goal and a last minute goal go in for us to fail to qualify. So when I talk about the Morris injury being bittersweet I mean it, we probably would've qualified if he wasn't injured, doubly so if JAB wasn't as well. I never in a million years suggested that though for the purposes of exculpatory evidence to let off the <expletive fed> the ----- coaches, the inept entitled veterans who took qualification for granted or anything else. All of them get an F, and not a regular F, but a John Bender Breakfast Club level single digit F. Two things can be equally true: we can be unlucky on Matchday 10 (we were) and still have not deserved the luck in the first place after the total ---- show that was qualifying circa '16-'17.
Maybe I misinterpreted too. My point was simply that in the current situation, even if Sargent starts 30 games and plays 70+ minutes consistently, I would be stunned if he topped 10 goals, I'd be happy with 7-8 based on how horrific their attack was in '19-20. It's just not a good situation at all and unless he scores a bunch of penalties, double digits would be a crazy result considering 7 was the most anyone scored last year, and that was Rashica whose a pretty impressive player already (at least to me anyway). Im hopeful, but it feels like a pipe dream. When you look at top scorers for them and it was like: 7 6 5 4 4 4 Something like that (can't remember if the second highest scorer had 5 or 6 goals), but good lord, that is just a straight nightmare, and really illustrates how badly they struggled to even generate chances let alone goals. Not a good sign at all for '20-'21 when it looks like basically the same team more or less in the attack.
dempsey regularly scored between 8-12 over his fulham career, and i think thats a hopeful (but not unreasonable) range for sarge. quite a bit younger, but presumably a lead striker. 8-10 would be a huge success. yall wanting 15+ need to put down the xbox/ps4 controllers. i like to call morris the american hulk (brazillian, not comic books) but calling him "chesty" is killing me
I like Morris but, the USMNT has too many players now that think and play faster due to their environments/leagues. Adding MLS players, Roldan really stands out, just puts the entire team into slo-mo Note: No more Delgado talk. He couldn't even make the last Jan Camp list...ouch
Yeah, it's just the whole Forward thing though, when you're job is basically putting the ball in the net, rather than a giant pile of other things for a midfielder like Dempsey usually was, having single digit totals is a bit alarming. The problem is, a guy playing on a team like Bremen just isn't going to score a lot of goals, at least these days anyway. I hope for double digits, but I expect 6-8. I think last year I projected 4-6 or 5-7, but I also didn't realize how god awful they'd be, I was figuring they'd finish 2-5 spots above relegation, instead of playing from the relegation zone nearly the entirety of the season.
I mean he had 4 goals and 4 assists last year. He might be able to get to 15 goal contributions which would be rather impressive.
I thought Weah was better against tougher competition in 2018 than Morris in 2019. We will see on Llanez. He looks pretty technical, quick, and fearless to me.
It's not a criticism of Sargent, even though it would be fair to say that it was a largely non-descript or worse season, but the question of "why" is critically important to note. As others have noted, Sargent finished tied for fourth in scoring, and was easily the youngest attacking player on the team, other than Rashica, I guess he had 8 goals, I thought it was 7, who was a good 3+ years older than Sargent. When you look at the ledger at the reference.com page for soccer, it's horrific across the board: 1.Rashica: 8 goals 5 assists (2 PK's) in 2264 minutes @ age 23 2. Osako: 8 goals 2 assists in 1848 minutes @ age 29 3. Klaasen: 7 goals 5 assists (1 PK) in 2936 minutes @ age 26/27 4 (tie): Sargent: 4 goals 2 assists in 1416 minutes @ age 19/20 Bittencourt: 4 goals 2 assists in 1892 minutes @ age 25/26 You've got three guys at about the same # more or less made worse by Klaasen missing 2 of 3 PK's during the season, then a big drop off to Sargent and Bittencourt follow by a batch of guys that added a single goal and Selassie with 2. YUCK. So yeah, when you see me talking down expectations about Sargent, it's not concerned w/Sargent's talent, I think at worst, he's as good as any Forward we've produced in the past 15 years, more likely he's the best traditional standard Forward we've produced since McBride and Jozy. My concern reamins, this is a team that simply could not produce quality chances or goals, period. I look at the roster, and other than Rashica, I don't think anything's particularly special (Osako was okay, but he also is 30, not exactly likely to get better at this point) or worth noting which is why I'm soft selling his goal total. I hope and pray he figures out how to score w/o much help, but I imagine it's going to be a major struggle all year long the produce in the attack and I worry about how it may impact his confidence, especially in a season which could lack nice get away's to USMNT camps to play w/guys that are actually talented like Pulisic and Reyna etc who might excite his game a bit). I hope he produces some attractive #'s, but whether he does or not will not reflect his ability, to me, we just need to watch how he plays, and how the potential problems afflicting the team impact or fail to impact his confidence and quality of play. Maybe he produces big #'s, but I find it hard to imagine that happening w/the liabilities in that roster, and in the end I won't be judging Sargent on the failure to rack up goals and assist in an offense that fails to get him the ball in dangerous positions to begin with.
When healthy & projected w/ warranted opportunities: Locks for starter: Pulisic, Reyna, Morris, Adams, McKennie, Brooks, Dest Probables: Long, A. Robinson, Weah, Steffen Subs bench: Sargent, Jozy, Pomykal, Cannon, M. Robinson, Horvath, Aaronson Squad: Mueller, Yedlin, Ream, Turner, Holmes Alternates: Sands, Miazga, Boyd, Green, Roldan, Novakovich, Richards, McKenzie, Zimmerman, Ebobisse, Zardes, Yueill, Sapong, Araujo, Arriola, Guzan, Opara, Ledezma note: sorry to the families of the players of anyone I may have overlooked
This seems like a realistic set of players. The big unknown to me here is whether Long is still the probable CB to pair with Brooks. And even more worrisome is the lack of quality alternatives. I might go with McKenzie or Robinson over Long right now... but when the Brooks we saw towards the tail end of last season is your lock #1 CB you could be asking for trouble. Fortunately, there is still time for some of our younger CBs to emerge. IMO, the youth options we are going to have in a year or two for most of our positions gets me giddy... but CB still concerns me. GK and LB isn't all that great either.
You are not allowed 7 locks. You must accept the premise that there are 9 named locks per op to post on this thread. That is the standard I was held to. I wouldnt lock in Brooks' Costa Rica performance. There are questions. That is not a lock unless your are part of the Eurotroll Armny. McKennie - we have no idea what happens at Juve. Suppose he doesnt play? They are a team in transition. He could fly to the moon or blow up on the launch pad. A.Robinson has done badly for us so far. Not a probable. If you want to call him a maybe....not for me, but ok, put your money down and get your handkerchief ready. Weah - doesnt get over the ball. Steffen - questionable physical problems. Dont see he him as a lock if we dont know if he can drag his knee across the pitch.
With a minimum of 500 minutes, Sargent was 2nd on Werder in terms of npXG+xA @ .34 (Osako clear #1 @ .45) 3rd on Werder in terms of npG+A @.38 (Osako then Rashica) He was about average in Shot Creating Actions/90, but 3rd in Goal Creating Actions / 90 2nd on SOT % @ 42.9% But he doesn't get enough shots period per 90, even relative to some attacking teammates. The team was bad. Sargent could clearly be better, but in the context of Werder, it's hard to call him anything but their 3rd best attacker at worst.
I know what happens if McKennie doesn't get a minute for juve - He's still a lock starter for the USNT.
Reasonable people rate players on their full bodies of work, not cherry-picked one game sample sizes from four years ago.