Religion, Spirituality, AND Morality?

Discussion in 'Spirituality & Religion' started by chad, Jan 5, 2006.

  1. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No offense, but it is pretty sophomoric to put morality with the other two.
     
  2. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    I think secular philosophical discussions should be included.
     
  3. christopher d

    christopher d New Member

    Jun 11, 2002
    Weehawken, NJ
    None taken.

    Atheists and agnostics may not see ethical issues as related to religion, while those of a religious bent often derive their sense of ethics from their religion.

    If you have a different view, please feel free to elaborate.
     
  4. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fixed your post to help you.
     
  5. christopher d

    christopher d New Member

    Jun 11, 2002
    Weehawken, NJ
    I'm of a religious bent, and I don't derive my sense of science from religion. I know lots of other religious people, and not a one of them derives their sense of science from religion, but that's besides the point.

    This is more on point: You swapped "ethics" for "science". Why?
     
  6. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    On Morality.

    In an earlier discussion there was an article linked to where the author said something along the lines of "the last thing we want is to take away the external moral compass of billions of people who don't believe they have an internal one."
     
  7. YankHibee

    YankHibee Member+

    Mar 28, 2005
    indianapolis
    how 'bout moral/ethical phenomenology. we'll have a BS abbreviation of mep. that should get really obnoxious fast. or just morality. most of us are not smart enough to be philosophy profs. morality will do for a soccer board (Chad if I were in one of your classes or teaching a philosophy course I'd be arguing along your side).
     
  8. christopher d

    christopher d New Member

    Jun 11, 2002
    Weehawken, NJ
    Which poses an interesting question: do those who consider themselves religious (as opposed to "spiritual, but not religious", for whom the answer is much more clear) believe they draw their moral compass internally or externally? Perhaps other religious folks (of whatever persuasion) can comment.

    Personally, the religion of my youth had much to do with forming that moral compass, but the compass itself was (and is) kept internal. My current religious leanings give but one moral maxim: "Harm none". That leaves plenty of room for one's own interpretation by one's own moral compass. Of course, your experience and results may vary.
     
  9. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina

    Sophomoric? Not really. It's all in Kant's writings.

    I'm still trying to figure out exactly what he meant, though. :D
     
  10. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Quite clearly you are, since you are completely wrong.

    I'll leave it at this: the forum title is stupid and uneducated. Keep it if you must, but I don't see any good reason for doing so.
     
  11. Mel Brennan

    Mel Brennan PLANITARCHIS' BANE

    Paris Saint Germain
    United States
    Apr 8, 2002
    Baltimore
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    This is correct.
     
  12. Yankee_Blue

    Yankee_Blue New Member

    Aug 28, 2001
    New Orleans area
    Sorry. You are wrong.
     
  13. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wrong about what?
     
  14. YankHibee

    YankHibee Member+

    Mar 28, 2005
    indianapolis
    Darn Socratic method.:rolleyes:
     
  15. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you know what he was talking about, please tell me.
     
  16. YankHibee

    YankHibee Member+

    Mar 28, 2005
    indianapolis

    No idea. You're right, I just think the point is lost here.
     
  17. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Why? The title of the forum simply lists the topics that can be discussed in that forum. For example, there is a "Business and Media" forum. That does not mean those topics cannot be discussed separately, only that those are the two possible focuses of the posts in that forum. For a forum that can cover all sorts of religious and moral topics, this title is perfectly suitable.
     
  18. MikeLastort2

    MikeLastort2 Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    Takoma Park, MD
    I don't want to speak for Chad, but I think his point is that the forum should've been named "religion and spirituality."
     
  19. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly.
     
  20. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Anybody notice that CNN has added a "Faith & Values" correspondent lately?
     
  21. YankHibee

    YankHibee Member+

    Mar 28, 2005
    indianapolis

    Seems like they're E! lite alotta times now.
     
  22. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    How exactly am I wrong? Am I wrong in saying that Kant addressed this issue of morality and its relevance to religion? No.

    Am I wrong in saying that I don't completely understand Kant? How the hell would you know?

    Ok, my post was a bit over the top, and certainly it wasn't my intention to start a debate on Kant, but I do think morality and religion are undisputably linked, and certainly morality belongs in this forum. Why not? It seems to be the one issue eliciting the most discussion so far.

    Especially note how people like to open threads about religious figures who are being immoral.
     
  23. christopher d

    christopher d New Member

    Jun 11, 2002
    Weehawken, NJ
    And for all of the bluster on the subject, I have yet to hear a cogent argument as to why the forum title is inappropriate. "It's sophomoric", "you're wrong" and "yes" simply do not appear to be well thought out positions.

    Once again, the thought process behind adding "morality" (and I wanted to add "ethics" as well), is that some issues (say, abortion) are often debated inside and outside the realm of religious doctrine or dogma. The atheist or agnostic may (and often does) have important contributions to these discussions. Similarly, there are many typically secular topics (say, corporate responsibility) that can be debated in a religious or spiritual context. It would be a shame to keep such discussions cloistered in a catch-all "politics" forum, when they really fall outside the realm of politics (except in the broadest sense of the term -- all interpersonal dealings, after all, are politics).

    If you have a real argument as to why the forum title is inappropriate, I'd love to hear it.
     
  24. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    fair enough. he talked about religion and morality. The key here is that for Kant THE FRAMEWORK OF MORALITY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION.
    I'm good at judgment.
     
  25. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "If I have a real argument"? Lol. That's funny.

    If I told you that morality is a normative and universal concept, would you understand? Do you know the difference between that and the false moralities of religions and cultures in which the term, as in your forum title, is used with a shaded connotation? Do you know what rational basis for agreement on a rule of conduct is? Can you distinguish between pragmatic practical reasoning? Value based practical reasoning? And pure rational reasoning?

    Morality is a subject that is held up to the standard of critical rational analysis. Religion is not. Nor is spirituality. You think morality fits with the others only because you do not know the difference between morailty proper and the cultural misuse and abuse of the term. Descriptive practices should not be mistaken for normative ones.
     

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