Relegation in the US?

Discussion in 'BigSoccer Polls' started by madhoman, Jul 22, 2004.

  1. Wide Boy

    Wide Boy New Member

    Aug 23, 2002
    Your argument is based on an entirely incorrect premise. It was the development of professional clubs that made promotion and relegation advantageous. Prior to professionalism, there were no competitive leagues. It was a means of integrating new clubs that were wealthy and ambitious into the existing structure, rather than having them develop their own.

    Unless you have such clubs (and my understanding is that the USA doesn't) then promotion and relegation aren't going to be relevant.
  2. Winston Smith

    Winston Smith New Member

    Nov 17, 2003
    As discussed before, relegation could work but only if for the time being MLS remained single entity and organised a series of divisions once enough teams had joined.

    The problem here is for it to work, it needs to be implemented soon, but the sheer volume of teams required to make it work would require more time... hence the catch 22.

    It will probably be in 5-6 years that MLS starts to make a profit, it may be an option from then on for MLS to seek to buy out the other leagues so a 3 or 4 division league can exist that is incorporated into the MLS structure as a whole (like the English League used to be before it got rebadged to the premiership and the championship etc.).

    The safest way to introduce promotion/relegation from then on would be to have promotion only for the first few years. Assuming in 5 years MLS div 1 has 14-16 teams, then for the next 2 years the best 2 teams in the A-league are given promotion (and don't have to buy in). When MLS reaches 20, they can then employ a relegation system which clubs may be happier to deal with as the newly promoted sides would be the most likely to go straight down.

    This would effectively mean the end of single entity and the draft, however, the league would be stable enough by this stage (otherwise they just wouldn't risk it) and MLS could then become the governing body that decides the regulations and supplies the referees.

    As for support and attendance, what team would you rather support? One that's given to you on a plate in the top league? Or one that's brought together by a group of fans and climbs it's way to the top?
  3. Mancityfan81

    Mancityfan81 New Member

    Jul 26, 2004
    New York
    I think a multi-tiered English-style system would be the salvation of American sports, which are not doing very well right now. In football(American rules), all div 1a programs should be made pro sports teams, the relationship similar to what UNAM have going with thier University namesake. In baseball, it would force the Detroit Tigers and Pittsburgh Pirates of the world to spend money to stay in the "top flight", and also allow smaller markets like Florida to retain high level baseball. It could save hockey, allowing high level 'puck' to survive despite currency problems in Canada. pro/rel would be the salvation of the NBA, allowing a culling of the Atlanta Hawks and L.A Clippers. All of this would be predicated on 'college' sports finally dropping this sham of the 'student-athlete' and finally embrace true proffesionalism. :cool: :cool:
  4. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So having teams go out of business is better for these teams? The owners seem willing to stay in the game and so do fans. When a team loses millions in TV revenue and has to deal with lower attendance in a giant stadium, its hard to stay in business. Plus, were are ignoring one important thing is US sports, the player unions. They'd never let it happen and NCAA teams will not go pro. They have too much of a good deal the way they are. I don't understand why people can't understand that US sports just evolved differently.
  5. thezone

    thezone New Member

    Jul 3, 2004
    Cincinnati, Ohio

    I think that the catch-22 being described is very accurate. Adding to that, the financial stability needed before entering the financially chaotic scene of promotion/relegation would take time also.

    One thing that could be done is to raise the profile of the US Open Cup. The Open Cup provides a "safe" environment for MLS and lower division sides to compete against each other. The tournament is currently a vastly ignored competition, but if teams were given some sort of incentive to win it might become more important. The FA Cup, other than the prestige and glory of winning arguably the greatest club competition in world history, uses the financial boost from advancing deep into the tournament to motivate lower sides and a UEFA cup spot to motivate the big boys.

    Any ideas on what to award teams that win the US Open Cup?
  6. Arsenal_fanUK

    Arsenal_fanUK New Member

    Jul 18, 2004
    another issue that would help MLS is relegation, and promotion. so when a team comes last in the mls what happens?? they just say 'oh well will have a crack at it next year'?? it should be if you come in the bottem 3 you go down to the next division, otherwise there is nothing to play for nothing the crap teams have to worry about. it will bring new opposition in the mls each year. And if the best sides in the mls get relegated it shows they aint that good, and it would add some drama to it, another reason why europe is leading the way.

    Look at the English division 1 (which is now named the COCA-COLA CHAMPIONSHIP) that is a massive league also infact its the 6 best league in the world, and it aint even the premier league remember. What im trying to say is sides who get relegated, in premier league cases the bottom 3 will go down to the COCA COLA CHAMPIONSHIP were they can win that and get preomoted again.

    another thing, proove me if im wrong but the us version of the f.a cup say its called the u.s cup or wotever, is it only MLS teams that can take part?
    the f.a cup lets all 4 divisions take part, which is wonderful DRAMA, DRAMA being key word because its fun to see these little sides come up agaisnt the elite sides.

  7. ProfZodiac

    ProfZodiac Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 17, 2003
    Boston, MA
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I dunno - baseball was why I voted maybe for some sports, but you have to put a limit. No team can drop below AAA, and no AA or A teams can move. Pawtucket could be a feasible team because of the stadium, but Lowell (A) could not. The other problem with this is the farm system. It has to go away, and that won't happen. So, no, pro/rel probably couldn't work.
  8. Winston Smith

    Winston Smith New Member

    Nov 17, 2003
    The greatest reward would be a spot in a continental cup such as Libertadores or one yet to be created. The Uefa spot definitely enhances the FA cup.

    The Open Cup is unique in US sports and needs to be marketed as such. A $1,000,000 incentive should be added instead of the paltry $100,000. But the top flight needs to be more prestigious. As to have an MLS side as high profile as, say, the Washington Red Skins would make the minnows to glory story that much more compelling.
  9. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    it's not older than the American tradition of franchises. The football league was never an amateur competition, not has it ever had an amateur team in it.

    Relegation was NOT introduced to promote growth, it was brought it as a way of allowing the cream to rise to the top at a time when there were an awful lot of big clbs outside the top division(s).

    To say it's a leftover implies that the franchise system is somehow the product of a spoting evolution that hasn't happened elsewhere yet.

    no they are not. There is not one single LEAGUE struggling beause of it.

    that's to do with the top clubs being greedy with TV revenues, not promotion. Exactly the same thing is now happening at the top of the divisions with clubs chasing champions league TV cash. If clubs could realise they need to distribute the TV cash better then such dcrepancies in TV cash wouldn't exist.

    OK, so you tell me which of those two clubs deserves to be in the premiership? I'd take the one who just one promotion. Who would you pick and why?

    that's the main issue over there and I've no problem at all in saying it's not remeotely feasible over there as things stand. But that's no reason at all to say it it's not working over here. I've yet to see or hear one single person over hear discussing even the possiblity of it being scrapped.
  10. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Actually. it's worse than that. They say "you failed, so here's a reward for your failure: the first choice in the draft for new players". Truly bizarre.

    I only have to look over on the MLS board and its discussions of how boring the "regular" MLS season is to make me glad that leagues I'm interested in use pro/rel. It's a huge factor in keeping interest going, both in the top division and the leagues below it. Without pro/rel the lower leagues in England would be far less popular and the sport far weaker than it is now. I realize that pro/rel will never happen in the US, but its leagues are less interesting for it.
  11. Arsenal_fanUK

    Arsenal_fanUK New Member

    Jul 18, 2004
    another thing going slightly of the topic but, i havent realy studied the MLS a great deal so im not to sure weather there are teams that come from the same city/sate who play in the MLS, if there is then great, but if there isnt it takes away a little excitement and drama, theres nothing better than a side beating the derby rivals.
    in the premier league theres Arsenal vs spurs, man utd vs mancher city or and team from the same city facing up agaisnt each over. derby matches tend to be more tense and exciting, bringing out the best performances. Imagine being english and being a Manchester City fan and getting promoted to the top league and being able to face your rivals, derby rivals. same goes for any club.

    It might come down to the fact that at this present time u.s soccer doesnt have a big enough fan-base for there to be lower leagues or the standard from a lower league to the MLS would be to great, either way it needs to be sorted.
    the teams who come last in the mls should be punished for coming last by relegation and the league below, the team winning it should be rewarded, clearly the team who comes last isnt fit to play in the mls right? therefore should be sent backwards while the team promoted should be giving a chance in the top division.
    this would make room for many transfers from players leaving the relegated teams etc.

    anyway us soccer is still young and it will happen maybe in the next 5 to 10 years.
    someone tell me this please... does like basketball, or american football or baseball have relegation? if not it boils down to America wanting to make the own cultural and traditional rules and wanting to be different from the rest of the world. FIFA need to sort the MLS relegation/promotion thing out, it is simply not fair on the MLS champions and the teams who come one or two places above the bottem teams.

    the only other way its going to be sorted out would be if you americans want it done, so get e-mailing or whatever to the board at mls.


Share This Page